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MarkB_MI

MarkB_MI

Well-known Member
Location
Motown USA
A few days back there was a discussion of the venerable 2-stroke GMC diesel engine, and how it has managed to survive for so long despite the introduction of more modern and efficient engines.

Last weekend my wife and I visited the USS Silversides, a WWII submarine on display in Muskegon, MI. I found the engines interesting; they're 9-cylinder Fairbanks-Morse 38D8-1/8 diesels. These are 2-stroke opposed-piston engines developed in the 1930s. They have neither heads nor valves, just intake and exhaust ports scavenged by a Roots blower.

Doing a little research, I was surprised to find that these engines are still in production! In fact, many [i:654c4848f0]nuclear[/i:654c4848f0] subs use them as standby power. The Jimmy diesel, with its 57-year production run, is a mere flash-in-the-pan compared to the F-M 38D8-1/8.

Lots of interesting details at <a href="http://www.dieselduck.info/machine/01%20prime%20movers/fairbanks_morse/fairbanks_morse.htm">http://www.dieselduck.info/machine/01%20prime%20movers/fairbanks_morse/fairbanks_morse.htm<a>
 
That is very interesting reading. Thanks for posting this. I would be interested knowing the reason for the 9-degree lead on the one crankshaft. Was it for vibration? Mike
 
>I would be interested knowing the reason for the 9-degree lead on the one crankshaft.

I read elsewhere that this implements "valve" timing. The exhaust ports open and close in advance of the intake ports.
 
Opposed-piston 2 stroke diesel engines were once the design of choice for submarines where HP per cubic foot was all important and cost was of little concern. Similar engines, and even more unique designs were used by others for other applications nearly always in confined space and or very low weight applications. For further interesting reading, google Napier delta design ship engines.

Fairbanks-Morse attempted to market the opposed-piston design engines for railroad locomotives where they failed miserably due to reliably and serviceability issues.

FWIW, the GM 2 stroke diesel engine design was built for far longer than 57 years. Google Winton Diesel. Winton pioneered the two-stroke diesel engines for railroad use in the late 1920s/early 1930s. Winton engines powered the Pioneer Zephyr in the mid 1930s. GM purchased Winton in the 1930s. I believe but did not verify that the EMD 710 series engines are still being built for railroad applications. If not, they were quite recently.

Dean
 
The backup power plant in town has a Fairbanks-Morse opposed-piston engine that runs a generator. Very reliable engine.
 
FM also used an Opposed Piston engine in a locomotive. One exists at the Canadian Rail museum in Delson Que.
 
I saw a Fairbanks Morse at Great Lakes engineman "A" school when I was there for the navy after boot camp in 1968. Didn't learn much about it, it was there for specialized training on just that engine. I wonder if it is still there?
 
glad you set that straight mike ,, now we can build one and make it run ,,. lol,. I would suppose vibration was the best reason for why it ran 9 or 12 degrees ahead of the other twin piston ,,. keep in mind that others in the lineup are about to fire the same way,.. never knew such a engine existed with opposedfiring pistons ,,. but I learn sumthin new everyday and cant wait for tomorrows new lessons ,,lol , I have heard that the subs motors could be overhauled one cylinder at a time WHIL IT IS RUNNING . the germans had a similar design , ,.I toured in 1985the inside of the engine room of the german submarine that was captured in 1945 ,. I studied the engine trying to understand its inner workings ,, but did not retain much info ..Today I am Told they will not allow the public too far into the most intimate workings of the german sub ,,. I guess someone or more did not mind their manners and overstepped the,,,. ir bounds costing all of us the freedom to see and understand history many thanx to the original poster for putting all this info up ,..
 
(quoted from post at 15:03:42 08/24/16) I saw a Fairbanks Morse at Great Lakes engineman "A" school when I was there for the navy after boot camp in 1968. Didn't learn much about it, it was there for specialized training on just that engine. I wonder if it is still there?
Click to expand...

It was still there in '85 when I went through the school. Funny thing is, I still work with the 2 stroke Detroits. Pulled one out of a 90's Oshkosh T1500 just a couple days ago for a rebuild. As far as the Fairbanks Morse, the Railroad Museum in Boulder City, Nevada still pulls tourist trains with one.
 
Had to go find the emergency diesel generators for some reason one time on USS Nimitz. Found the compartment, opened door, couldn't find the diesel. Looked and looked, all around, no diesel. Just one big comportment. Then realized I was standing beside it.
 

Some of the secrecy is for show or convenience . Given the metal alloy and thickness along with an engineering handbook. The pressure and depth can be calculated within a few feet.
Knowing commonly known info in an boiler operating engineer's text book the power, boiler, turbine and condensor size can be calculated to within a few percent .
Same goes for battery power capacity , weight and occupied volume .
Backup power and various support systems also have to follow the laws of physics .
Mount the machinery on it's own vibration absorbing platform and wrap the outer hull in some acoustic absorbing elastomer material.
RF communications and sonar hasn't changed either except for more computer data processing power.
It's not like a submarine, pressure vessel, electricity or a steam system is new top secret tech .
 
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