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Hello good tractor people! From a noob with a few questions.

D

docmirror

Well-known Member
I just joined, and could use some guidance. Please follow along and provide advice where possible. I'm mainly a city boy, but pretty handy with tools and such. Never lived on a farm, but now I have some high desert NM property.

My mission is to cut in a runway, 35x3000' at 8000' elevation in N NM. I currently have some stumpy, clumpy grass balls, and some typical high desert creosote bush about 1-2' tall with ornery roots.

I own an 8N with standard trans, and at that altitude, I just won't pull a chisel plow to drag out the grass balls, and bogs down when I get near the creosote. Not enough power, and not a low enough gear. The tires are like new, and the tractor is running well.

I have been tractor shopping locally, and found two ads that interest me. First is a MF 65 gas engine for $2700. In fair shape, everything works but the gauges are sketchy. Has good rear tires and wheel weights. Second is a MF 135 in better condition for $2800 but the power steering is out, and needs a $150 part to fix. I can drive it without the PS of course.

My wife-defined budget is a hard $3000. I have a trailer and truck to tow either.

A) Which will do better with the 7 pt chisel plow and box blade at 8000'?

B) Which will be less maint per use hours?

Would like to stay with gas engine because I don't have any other diesel engines right now, and I know how to work on gas engines better. I could/would go for a Ford 3000 or similar, but everytime I go look at one in my price range, it's going to need $2000 of catch-up repair. I'm getting too old to keep fixing stuff that I need to do the job.

give it to me straight doctor - I can take it!

thx doc
 
With both being in the same HP category, Either will do. The utility style will be handy and add some more comfort in operation. The taller 65 will
weigh more, and probably pull more. I think which ever is in better known condition, and tickles your fancy. I like either. You may be taking teeth out of the rake to pull it in the soil. Jim
 

Thanks for the info guys. I read through some topics and see it's ok to link ads so here's the two candidates. I live in N TX most of the time, and am shopping down here around DFW. Will be hauling it up to NM this fall. Also I'll be doing some snow moving with it in winter, and I have a set of chains for the 8N which I think might fit the 65 tires.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/pts/5739112104.html

http://waco.craigslist.org/grd/5767750043.html

I'm leaning toward the 65 even though it's not as pretty. The old man selling is pretty nice, and he's been very forthcoming with info. However, I can't seem to figure out which PTO it has on it.
 
I agree with hiring a dozer to get the runway cut in.

Now you say one has the power steering out ? well many times a tractor with broken power steering is HARDER to steer than one that never had power steering.
 
Yeah - no, I'm not going to hire the job out. I could buy 10 tractors, throw each one away after 3 days, and have money left over by the time I pay a dozer to come out there.

Also, the minute you say 'runway' the price doubles again because of course - airplane owners are all rich.

Then, the price will go up another 20% due to liability if it's not graded right and I ball it up on takeoff.

The land is more than an hour from Taos, and pricing in Taos for grading work is horribly expensive. By the time I get the guy up there to quote it, I could buy dinner and a movie. I'm not kidding, I had some light grading work done on my septic system and it was $1200 just to smooth out some dirt from the house to the tank. Which is why I now have a Ford 8N I paid $1500 for with chains.
 
Wow, 3000' at 8000' MSL in a southern (hot) state sure doesn't sound like enough to me but maybe I'm just the nervous type.
 
(quoted from post at 13:06:48 09/22/16) Wow, 3000' at 8000' MSL in a southern (hot) state sure doesn't sound like enough to me but maybe I'm just the nervous type.
Click to expand...

Depends on the plane. I have a Bonanza with 8" wheels, and 260HP. I've taken off at Taos with 2 people on a warm day in 1100'. Also have a Maule and that will get out in 700'. My land is about 1/2 mile from the CO border, so way north NM and I'm not going to be taking off in 90F conditions with full load.
 
Why not an older road grader with a scarifier. Scarify the grass and creosote loose and roll it off to the side with the blade. A grader will give you a nice level finish, and will be handy for touch ups. May not be exactly in your price range,but will do the job alot quicker,and with a better finish on grade. Works great for snow removal also.
 

Dang, and here I was just hoping to get a 500' runway in at my new place for my R/C planes. :) Good luck with your project!
 
I'm not sure what you are questioning about the p.t.o. ??

It is a 540 r.p.m. system with the added feature of "ground" p.t.o.

The "ground" selection will base p.t.o. revs on your forward speed, rarely used except on p.t.o. driven hay rakes.

P.T.O. is controlled by a two stage clutch. Raise the clutch pedal about an inch and a half to start the p.t.o. and hydraulic pump spinning. Then
clutch fully up to start forward motion.
 
(quoted from post at 11:39:38 09/22/16) I just joined, and could use some guidance. Please follow along and provide advice where possible. I'm mainly a city boy, but pretty handy with tools and such. Never lived on a farm, but now I have some high desert NM property.

My mission is to cut in a runway, 35x3000' at 8000' elevation in N NM. I currently have some stumpy, clumpy grass balls, and some typical high desert creosote bush about 1-2' tall with ornery roots.

I own an 8N with standard trans, and at that altitude, I just won't pull a chisel plow to drag out the grass balls, and bogs down when I get near the creosote. Not enough power, and not a low enough gear. The tires are like new, and the tractor is running well.

I have been tractor shopping locally, and found two ads that interest me. First is a MF 65 gas engine for $2700. In fair shape, everything works but the gauges are sketchy. Has good rear tires and wheel weights. Second is a MF 135 in better condition for $2800 but the power steering is out, and needs a $150 part to fix. I can drive it without the PS of course.

My wife-defined budget is a hard $3000. I have a trailer and truck to tow either.

A) Which will do better with the 7 pt chisel plow and box blade at 8000'?

B) Which will be less maint per use hours?

Would like to stay with gas engine because I don't have any other diesel engines right now, and I know how to work on gas engines better. I could/would go for a Ford 3000 or similar, but everytime I go look at one in my price range, it's going to need $2000 of catch-up repair. I'm getting too old to keep fixing stuff that I need to do the job.

give it to me straight doctor - I can take it!

thx doc
Click to expand...

Just how big a "chisel" plow you trying to pull with that 8N? A single shank sub soiler might be a better bet.

To be honest that much root and brush moving with a 45 HP tractor is going to take a long time. If you are retired with nothing better to do month I'd bet. Yea you can do the work like that but it's going to be slow going. Renting a dozer may be a disaster if you don't have any or much experience because it takes a little seat time to get the hang of it. I wouldn't want to tackle that job with a 100 HP tractor unless I had a plow and disk.

From what suggestions I've seen here the grader sounds like the best bet. While at first gland all those levers are a bit intimidating but they are easy to learn and very forgiving.

My only experience with moving dirt and brush was in the desert is in the Ft Bliss TX area. There nothing beat a dozer in the hands of a skilled operator.

Rick
 
That is hard to imagine knowing a fair amount about earthwork and operating the equipment used to do that kind of work. If there's just clearing and grubbing and not excessive cuts and fills with any longer pushes, an appropriate sized dozer on rental will likely make short work of it. A skilled operator should make good time. Once cut in you could maintain it with a small tractor.

I have been through northern N.M. / southern CO. numerous times,its a lot different from here, that is for sure. How is the soil ? loose on top, hard packed/pan ? Might not be such a concern if not cutting very deep though if its flat land. Its definitely going to take a lot longer with what you are considering using. Being remote, maybe the rental shipping is more, but worth consideration given the production you'll get for the money.
 
Hey Doc,
I recognize you from your posts on the NTC
board. That is a good board but mostly
limited to Ns. This site, with all the brand
specific boards and tool and implement
boards is VAST and 10 times more heavily
read. So you came to the right place.
Too bad you can't get a decent 3000 but a
Massey is good too.
 
Sadly the tractor should be more like about a 100 HP and then you will find it small in a few days. Also the dozer would be much faster for that work. The Grader would be the cats meow for that work as it would also be good for the future maintenance and snow removal. With a plane I would think the smoother the better. Thus the grader.
 
(quoted from post at 17:31:20 09/22/16) That is hard to imagine knowing a fair amount about earthwork and operating the equipment used to do that kind of work. If there's just clearing and grubbing and not excessive cuts and fills with any longer pushes, an appropriate sized dozer on rental will likely make short work of it. A skilled operator should make good time. Once cut in you could maintain it with a small tractor.

I have been through northern N.M. / southern CO. numerous times,its a lot different from here, that is for sure. How is the soil ? loose on top, hard packed/pan ? Might not be such a concern if not cutting very deep though if its flat land. Its definitely going to take a lot longer with what you are considering using. Being remote, maybe the rental shipping is more, but worth consideration given the production you'll get for the money.
Click to expand...

You even see a noob get a nice straight level cut with a dozer first couple of hundred hours in the seat? Most often it looks like a wash board! Then they spend hours trying to get it level till the get it figured out. Plus being a runway he's going to want a slight crown down the centerline so when they do get the occasional rain or winter run off it doesn't turn into a lake. Grader will do a better job IMO.

Rick

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 13:39:27 09/22/16) Why not an older road grader with a scarifier. Scarify the grass and creosote loose and roll it off to the side with the blade. A grader will give you a nice level finish, and will be handy for touch ups. May not be exactly in your price range,but will do the job alot quicker,and with a better finish on grade. Works great for snow removal also.
Click to expand...

Ya know - I was thinking of this too. I started looking at some of the old road graders that I could buy for $4-5k, and everyone I looked at was in pretty rough shape. Plus, I have to either buy it local there and drive it over, or have it trailered to the site which is kinda pricey, then once I get the runway in I'm pretty much done with the grader, and will need to sell it. Road graders are good for scruffing and grading smooth but not much else.

Plenty of other things I can do with a util tractor.
 
(quoted from post at 16:20:19 09/22/16) Call a contractor and hire it done with a price limit. At $3 grand it will be better than what you can do with a farm tractor.
Loren
Click to expand...

$3 grand won't even get them on site, much less pull out the roots, and grass and grade it smooth. The one time I asked a guy in Santa Fe he was saying $12-16k and maybe more.
 
(quoted from post at 17:50:02 09/22/16) Hey Doc,
I recognize you from your posts on the NTC
board. That is a good board but mostly
limited to Ns. This site, with all the brand
specific boards and tool and implement
boards is VAST and 10 times more heavily
read. So you came to the right place.
Too bad you can't get a decent 3000 but a
Massey is good too.
Click to expand...

Hiya there! Yeah, I recall your nom-de-guerre too.

I might just pony up and get a road grader. But - between us guys, when my wife looks at a red Massey or a gray Ford 8N tractor she thinks 'meh, another goofy toy for him to fiddle with'. Then - she looks at a Cat 11 six wheel, giant yellow, 26,000lb, tall cab, smoke belching road grader with a billion levers and says 'GAK! WTF DID YOU DOOOOOO!!!'. So, it's a image thing plus by the time I get the road grader onsite I'm bonna spend $6-7k which is double my budget. But yes - the grader would sure be nice. :D
 
Here's something that should keep me wrenching for days!

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/grd/5776149387.html
 
As a non- equipment operator I was required to run a grader for a USMC experiment . { who would operate if all the operators were killed]. You have to watch the horizon ,the blade, and the grade all at once and it takes some time to get used to just how to focus the eyes. Inexperience operators could run a dozer better than a grader.
 
A aircraft will cost you $100,000 or more to buy and $100 per hour or more to fly. An aircraft will require a large building for a hanger. Maintenance requirements on aircraft are strict and expensive, especially if the plane must be stored outside. If you can afford all that, why scrimp on a Do-It-Yourself runway when you have no experience building a runway? You will be ahead to spend the extra $10,000 to $50,000 to hire someone to build a safe runway for you and your family to use. The 8N should be great for towing and parking your plane in the hanger, and for maintaining the runway.

How will you keep the grass clumps and brush from growing in the finished runway?
 
(quoted from post at 08:04:20 09/23/16) A aircraft will cost you $100,000 or more to buy and $100 per hour or more to fly. An aircraft will require a large building for a hanger. Maintenance requirements on aircraft are strict and expensive, especially if the plane must be stored outside. If you can afford all that, why scrimp on a Do-It-Yourself runway when you have no experience building a runway? You will be ahead to spend the extra $10,000 to $50,000 to hire someone to build a safe runway for you and your family to use. The 8N should be great for towing and parking your plane in the hanger, and for maintaining the runway.

How will you keep the grass clumps and brush from growing in the finished runway?
Click to expand...

Wow, it's amazing how much someone can get wrong in just one post! Nicely done.

Old aircraft price: $28,000
Hourly operating direct cost, fuel and oil: $50
Hourly operating indirect cost: ~ $30 based on 250 hours/year
Since I do most of the work on my plane, and have it signed off by the A&P, my maint costs are relatively flat. Yes, they are strict, but not really expensive if one is handy.
Oh, and while it sounds complex, a runway is just a wide piece of road. I've graded a road with a box blade before, for now the only job is grubbing out the current stuff. I would say a twice per year grading will keep the grass out.

I'm not going to be there constantly, I live most of the time in N TX where the plane is hangared, just long weekends, maybe a summer break and once in a while for a winter ski trip, if there's not too much snow on the ground.
 
(quoted from post at 22:34:57 09/22/16)
. Then - she looks at a Cat 11 six wheel, giant yellow, 26,000lb, tall cab, smoke belching road grader with a billion levers and says 'GAK! WTF DID YOU DOOOOOO!!!'.
Click to expand...

Under the radar.... alright.... giggity. LOL Mine's the same way. I tell the wife I need a tractor for our 60 acres. She's basically thinking riding mower. She's pretty much ok with whatever, but I don't want to give the old gal a heart attack. LOL
 
Welcome from someone who is probably a close neighbor. I am a bit south of Alamosa, CO, so probably about half an hour north. I understand the problem with clearing the chico brush. One good thing is if you have some time, it is pretty easy to mow down with a brush cutter, and the roots, while gnarly, seem to break down pretty quickly once cut and are much more manageable. On the dirt runways I see up here, the maintenance seems to be pretty minimal. Many of them are a little shorter, with many seeming to be closer to the half mile mark in length.
 
(quoted from post at 09:27:23 09/24/16) Welcome from someone who is probably a close neighbor. I am a bit south of Alamosa, CO, so probably about half an hour north. I understand the problem with clearing the chico brush. One good thing is if you have some time, it is pretty easy to mow down with a brush cutter, and the roots, while gnarly, seem to break down pretty quickly once cut and are much more manageable. On the dirt runways I see up here, the maintenance seems to be pretty minimal. Many of them are a little shorter, with many seeming to be closer to the half mile mark in length.
Click to expand...

Howdy. I'm over near Amalia so a bit more east but not too far. I may drive over some of the brush and knock it down with the bush hog, then go back after 10 days and try to grub it out. If u know a land grader guy in town, please post it up. I'd rather do it myself but if the price is right, I'll pay someone. Anything out of Taos is nutty price for 30x2700.
 
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