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I never thought I would see the day...

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Dave H (MI)

Well-known Member
... you could not pay someone to do a basic truck repair. So I do almost 100% of my own tractor and equipment repairs or I would be broke. I have two trucks from the 1970's and my pickup has started stumbling on occasion when leaving an intersection. Sometimes it does not want to idle or idles rough. The other day it stalled in the middle of a farm lane and I had to leave it...would not start. It is a 1976 C-20. With road vehicles, I like to use a licensed mechanic. Yes, I fix a lot of stuff but I am not a mechanic. Forum posts, YouTube, etc and I get it done but I prefer someone who knows their stuff do the road vehicles. Now though, I am being told...and I quote..."no one here knows how to work on a vehicle with a carburetor". No less than FOUR places have told me they cannot work on my truck because it is too old. One was a Chevy dealer. One place told me they scrapped the tank they used to soak carbs. Frankly, I am a little shocked. So I guess I am going to start working on trucks now too. Should be interesting! Don't care to buy a new truck that costs more than my first house did. Rant over! :)
 
Well i still work on carb's but then again i am old . each year someone brings a carb to me to have redone . On them Cheve's that quadra squirt can be a nightmare some of them crack internally and if they do that they are done for .The new kids do not know the in's and out's of the old ways since the computer does not tell them what is wrong and what part or parts need to be replace . Takes lots of talent to remove a screw or bolt and unplug and replug and put the bolt or screw back in . 99.9 pecent of them can't even rebuild a transmission , theyjust unplug unbolt pull the old one out and stuff a complete unit in and half the time they screw that up.
 
I understand your frustration and of course I will put the invetiable BUT in that statement. When I started working on carburetors for real in 1955, I don't think I would have felt competent to work on a 1905 auto and be able to charge a customer a reasonable amount for the time spent on figuring out how to do it. I don't work on any tractor made after about 1995 either and very little on them. If it was my own, of course I would tackle most anything , but not for a paying customer.
 
(quoted from post at 19:07:00 05/05/17) Now though, I am being told...and I quote..."no one here knows how to work on a vehicle with a carburetor". No less than FOUR places have told me they cannot work on my truck because it is too old. :)
Click to expand...

No reason to be surprised, they haven't put carbs on vehicle since who knows when. Why would anyone train to do something they might never see? You might try a speed shop, many of work on carbureted hotrods all the time.
 
Back when I was "in the business" I used to be an expert at Quadrajets but it was unprofitable to rebuild them rather than do a quick replacement with a commercial rebuilt. The shop I was in also rebuilt transmissions but stopped for the same reason. Better profit and less hassles to get an exchange trans from one of the transmission specialty shops at jobber rates. Same with engines. It was hard to beat the prices of commercial rebuilder's exchange jobber rates.
 
No problem here as I took the carb off one of my trucks and tore the thing apart. It just needed a little cleaning. I was real careful though because there are not many carb kits available for a 1931 Ford and not many mechanics that work on them.
 
I know a guy,but you probably couldn't afford him. The woman who used to do my taxes,her step son started rebuilding carburetors out of high school. My son says he's one of the top fuel system shops in the racing industry these days. So ya,even when they start a business,it takes off so fast that they don't necessarily stick to fixing things for farmers.
 
At least they are being honest. I wouldn't want to pay some kid $200 an hour to guess what's wrong while he searches Youtube videos!

If you have a basic knowledge of mechanics, you can do this. Carbs are simple, easy to diagnose and repair.

But don't always blame the carb. Could be fuel delivery, could be ignition.

That era of truck used HEI ignition. They were known for burning through the center of the rotor, coils shorting to ground, the wires on the pick up coil breaking, vacuum advance failing, and centrifugal advance rusting in place and wearing out the bushings.
 
I agree with you! My first thought actually was to look for a fuel filter. I had a 1975 truck I drove back in...well...1975...and it would do exactly this same thing every blessed time I bought gas at Speedway. I changed out two filters and then stuck to Shell. Never had a problem there. First thing I did with the truck was get rid of the old gas. This problem started in January and the gas in the tank was maybe three months old at that time. I ran all that out of it and filled it up with Shell high octane. She was flying down the road on that stuff. Next I need to hook up a trailer and idle her up and down a few roads to see how it goes. May have solved the issue already. It's a great truck but SOOOOO much can go wrong in a shed over the winter! :(
 
Dave, my cousins son is a licensed mechanic working out of his place in Pinckney. He is pretty good. Email me for his phone number...
 
Good chance the fuel filter is the problem if it will run by pouring a little gas in the carb. Fuel filter if I remember right is under the cab right side just inside of the frame rail about under where a passager seat would be straight above
 
And one in the carb where the fuel line attaches. Some of the in carb filters had a spring loaded check valve. Never knew what it was for, but have taken many out that were mysteriously starving for fuel.

Another sign of fuel problems is gas stains or actual leakage at the fuel pump vent.

Sitting with ethanol in the old pumps is hard on the diaphragm.

And rubber lines between the tank and the pump rot, crack and suck air.
 
I have a 1976 K20 pickup with quadrajet carb. rebuilt it a few years back but problem with it was it flooded when it ran a while then sat a short time. Old chevy guy told me about a lead rivit on the bottom that leaks down if you don't put sealer on it. There is a fuel filter on inlet where it goes into the carb, but mine doesn't have an inline filter.
 
If I have your email, I have long forgotten that I did. I have a few hundred clients in that address book too so finding it would be problematic. Your email is not open here, but mine is...send it over. If she quits again I will give him a call. Thanks!
 
I feel your pains. I have taken my vehicles to a friend and fellow collector for the last 20 years. I work long hours at what I'm good at and trust him for what he's good at plus he's got the tools and set up to do it. He turns 62 this summer and I wonder how long he'll plug along. He has his regulars and some restoration. Last year he finished his own Baker Monitor upright gas engine and he is currently working on a 5hp. Economy as well as over hauling a Cleveland car engine and a 307 Chevy.
 
Heaven help me if there is a fuel filter under the cab! I have a couple miles of muddy lanes and this is a 2WD so I have to keep her moving to make it thru. We use mud for undercoating hereabouts. :)
 
Sorry but yep that is where it is. My nephew has a 1987 Chev and that is where it is and my 198-0 it is in the same place so yep you have to get under it to change it and good chance you will get a face full of gas if your not real careful BTDT
 
I get what they are saying - its obsolete technology as far as they are concerned so why train someone on them. I've seen the same problem with tractors. In the 90's I could call up our local CASE/IH dealer and talk about the belly pump on my M with someone that knew what they are all about. If I call today the guys in the shop hardly knows what an M is, let alone the belly pump. There is probably a lot of other examples as technology moves on.
 
I own my own shop, and to be honest working on a 40 year old vehicle that is not a collector's vehicle is a hassle. The assumption is that people seem to think anything with a carb is cheap or easy to work on. I work on stuff like that all the time, just put a clutch in a 75 C30 work truck, but I always warn of down time. You might not believe this, but in some areas, you can't just walk across the street and get parts for that old stuff anymore. When it comes to messing with a Qudrajet, cleaning it and putting in a kit is one thing. Trying to source or repair little bits and pieces can be problematic. Some of the common parts from years ago aren't so common anymore. I had to special order a clutch fork and clutch for that clutch job I mentioned, I was glad the bearing retainer snout was good, used to run into those shot. Those used to be parts any store would have atleast 2 of, but not anymore. Those shops need stuff they can turn quick, I run a country shop, so people will wait.
 
I work on the old stuff but sometimes I wonder why I put myself through it. The rule of thumb that I have found is the old stuff takes twice as long and is 1/2 as profitable.
 
change the filter, if that doesn't do it scrap the qudrajunk and install a carter AFB clone from Edelbrock, much better carb.
 
I don't think that any of my area dealers would even look at a gas tractor. Last I knew the area CaseIH dealer did not want to look at anything older than an IH 66 series tractor on the IH side of things and that is a number of years ago now. The mechanics who were around before the merger have pretty well left the dealership. Kind of ironic that to do an involved reapir job on an IH tractor you have to track down an independent mechanic. Something I would have never thought that the day would come for what was a major brand for a long time.
 
On something just a little smaller. On lawn mowers and 5he Briggs and Stratton small engines. In the early 80s they had the pulsa jet carbs and the top of the fuel tanks would warp a tiny bit. Easy fix with a steel top table and a sheet of fine sand paper. The other thing you did was install a magnatron kit on the coil. No more points needed! You tell a repair shop guy about this repair and they look at you as if you have two heads. I must be getting old !!
 
I knew a couple old fellows 30 years ago that rebuilt carb, generators and starters for mechanics that didn't want to do that kind of work. Those old guys are gone now, so if you need that type of work done, educate yourself and do it.
 
GM quit using carburetors 30 years ago. Given that OEMs typically only supply replacement parts for 20 years after end of production (if that), it's hardly surprising a Chevy dealer wouldn't want to work on a 40+ year old truck.

Another consideration is this: If their labor rate is, say 60 bucks an hour, it doesn't take much labor to exceed the market value of a old vehicle. They've probably been stuck with clunkers whose owners walked away from the vehicle rather than pay the repair bill.
 
Sometimes they will tell you that because people with that old stuff expect a cheap repair just because its old.The local Jd dealer won't work on old tractors because the bill can be more than the tractors worth then the owner is mad. So,they just don't fix them anymore.They can work on something newer and make 1000 bucks or make next to nothing on a carb job.
 
i work on my old trucks too as most of these "mechanics" wernt even born when my trucks were built, off idle stumbeling sounds like the accelerator pump diaphragm is failing, and its a wear part, you can look at the linkage on the top left corner, there will be a usually light green metal flat blade with a rod on one end, there may or may not be a extra hole in the bar for the rod, changing the holes, which changes the location of the pump diaphragm in the carb bore, can be done by placing a pocket screwdriver between the piviot pin, [ your going to have to be able to push the pin back in after you move it to the other hole] and the carb body , then push the piun toward the carb body and against the screwdriver, if you used a small enough screwdriver you can then lift up the green metal blade and re position, it then push the pin back in, now, this may or may not fix it, BUT if it changes it, then you onto at least part of the problem, if the skirt on the pump diaphram is torn, and its very likley you will have to order a carb kit, at the local parts store, and theyll need the carb number, not the truck id, more than one carb was used on the same truck in the same year, depending on options the carb number is always a long STAMPED number, not a cast number, once you have the kit, brace yourself cause your going to have to take this thing apart! now dont get the fantoids just yet, go to u-tube and search quadrajet rebuild, i strongly suggest you not only watch the video in its entirity, but download it as well,this allows you to reference it one step at a time, its much easier once you see it done than it is to make sense of the paper instructions that come in the kit. its not that its hard, its not, the main thing is you need to pay attention to where you get stuff from, it has to go back right there again, and work on a clean surface, and i mean clean! once you clean your parts, take plenty of pics with your cell,as you dissassemble the carb, you may want to reference them later, once your sucessfull you can fix others carbs , as your probably the only one around your area that will know how ! $$$
 
Carburetors are not rocket science! get a drawing and take it apart checking all the parts learning how they work or what they do and remember it would be cheaper to go to NAPA and buy a new or rebuilt carburetor cheaper than you could hire someone to rebuild or just change one out.
 
A 76 probably has an egr valve bolted to the intake behind the carb. If it's got a bad stumble that's the place to start, pull hose off valve and stick your golf tee in the hose. Also a Q-Jet that might set in the shed all winter could have the power piston stuck in the down position. It's got two metering rods on a piston with a spring under it, at idle high vacuum holds the rods down in the primary jets, open the throttle= low vacum - spring pops the rods up giving it a quick rich fuel mixture. Used to find a lot of those pistons stuck, with air cleaner off seems like about 1/4" pipe sticking up frt. center of carb., should see a small bar through the middle, engine off should be able to push it down with a small screw driver and pop back up. Fuel filter isn't a bad idea. Push the throttle open while looking in the frt. barrels, should see two squirts to get an idea of what the accelerator pump does. But if it won't start now I don't think any of that would keep it from starting.
 
(quoted from post at 11:25:07 05/05/17)
(quoted from post at 19:07:00 05/05/17) Now though, I am being told...and I quote..."no one here knows how to work on a vehicle with a carburetor". No less than FOUR places have told me they cannot work on my truck because it is too old. :)
Click to expand...

No reason to be surprised, they haven't put carbs on vehicle since who knows when. Why would anyone train to do something they might never see? You might try a speed shop, many of work on carbureted hotrods all the time.
Click to expand...

Bingo, most carb equipped vehicles are now new cars after they were recycled.

Now go look up the flat rate time on that quadrajunk. By the time you pay the flat rate you could pay for a reman and installation and have some change left over.

And as was stated. Why spend time and money training for a system you most likely will never work on. One son in law graduated auto tech about 16 years ago. They had two days (about 6 hours total) of carb theory. That's it. Most vehicles went over to fuel injection in the 80's. Sure the throttle body units looked similar to a carb but were a cheap type of fuel injection.

And the same thing is true with trannies and engines. Sure they learn to rebuild them in school but it's cheaper to R&I a reman for the customer and the shop doesn't have to eat the rebuild if it fails under warranty.

Some of these kids today are actually pretty good mechanics but they are not allowed to rebuild a starter or alternator. Heck some of us remember rebuild master and brake cylinders. That's gone too but for liability reasons.

Times change guys, we have to change with it or get left behind.

Rick
 
Well, Dave, in 1976 most of us did our own taxes, too.

Good luck with the truck. Our local carb guy retired a few years ago, but I do have an old tractor mechanic who is actually younger than I am!
 
I've rebuilt a semi load of Quadrajets. That used to be my specialty. Kits and external parts are still available at least from Napa. I'll bet the problem is somewhere besides the carburetor. Ignition, fuel pump, fuel filter, distributor, several places to look. Q-Jets were good carburetors and were used for several years. The electronic ones were a bit of a struggle until you got the hang of them....
 
sounds like a maybe a fuel pump went out . easy way to tell is take the fuel line off the carburetor hold you thumb over the end tightly and have some body turn the motor over. if you cant hold the fuel from coming out the fuel pump is bad.
 

You don't give much to go on but one thang sticks out so I am gonna make a wild arse guess... At this time we don't know if its fuel are ignition I think you stated it stumbled and shut off and would not restart as in you had to walk home. I take it that its been stumbling on acceleration on take off but has never stopped running till this point.

My WAG a wire has broke on the distributor pick up... If its a no spark condition remove the cap use a finger and tug on both of the wires from the pick up to the module if one is broke it will be obvious are all that's holding it together is the plastic wire covering a little tug with a finger will Finnish it off. It will break into and that's
a good thang :wink:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...1WUZ_q-7w-ZsNyLqcj-XtvVTy5Afh4nO3gaAnz48P8HAQ
 

Pre OBD 2 cars/trucks have fallen into the same category... Mechanics new to the trade in the last 20 years have seen few if any OBD1 vehicles. Few in the last 30 years have had to diagnosis a vehicle that offers no diagnostic menu on a scan tool that they understand...
 
SWMBO often says "Why don't you pay someone to fix it for you". I say because I am better qualified, who else knows how to fix this old stuff.
 
Summit Racing has alot of remanufactured carbs for maybe $200-300. Probably cheaper than having it rebuilt. The local small engine shop wanted $135 to redo a simple Kohler lawn tractor carb.
 
My BIL took his 1965 Chevy pickup to a local mechanic a couple years ago. He went to school with the guy (be 50 next year). The mechanic asked his dad "where to plug in the computer"......
 
As others have stated it could be a number of problems ranging for a simple vacuum leak, ignition problem/timing, carb problem including the accelerator pump, to a timing/timing chain issue. So with something that old are you willing to pay someone with no experience with those systems by the hour to diagnose then repair the problem? Last quadrajunk I worked on was on a C20 truck 17-18 years ago. At the time, charging by the flat rate, it was cheaper to put a reman on it than to do an in house rebuild. The carb was about 200 and labor for R&I an hour. Full kit for a high quality kit was something like 65 bucks that we were supposed to charge the customer. That did not include a new float. Thing was there the customer decided his problem was the carb and he insisted that we replace it. Then he paid us to fix the real problem, worn out distributer. Again, cheaper to put in a reman than to rebuild it.

Rick
 
Know what you mean. My tool dealer is amazed at the number of TBI GM
trucks I work on. The TBI trucks are quickly going the way of the
Quadrajet.
 
I may get flamed on this, but if I owned your truck I would be converting it to TBI. Say what you want about electronics, but there isn't a Quadrajet 350 that can go over 200K with only plugs and fliter changes. The TBI engines cold start better and are day to day more reliabe than a Quadrajet any day.
 
(quoted from post at 20:00:43 05/06/17) I may get flamed on this, but if I owned your truck I would be converting it to TBI. Say what you want about electronics, but there isn't a Quadrajet 350 that can go over 200K with only plugs and fliter changes. The TBI engines cold start better and are day to day more reliabe than a Quadrajet any day.
Click to expand...

I am sure if he would go hang out at a truck stop a over paid truck driver that could not make a living playing mechanic could fix it for him.

Just proves that a good mechanic earns his pay and all he can get.
 
(quoted from post at 10:28:50 05/07/17) Too many things to go wrong with electronics, give me the oldy but goodys.
Click to expand...

Old are new does not matter diagnostic charge is the same...

What folks do not understand it takes a top gun to run down those gremlins the top gun cost the shop more in wages. If a top gun turns 40 hr. a week doing the heavy diagnostics a R&R tech can turn 60 just replacing parts... I will ask all What end of the scale would you like to be on.

If a top gun can turn 40 a week doing heavy diagnostic work he is the man most will be lucky to turn 30. How many would be happy working your arse off putting out 10's of thousands in diagnostic equipment putting in 50/60 hr a week jut to collect for 30HR just to try to earn a decent wadge. Then the next week one of those gremlins returns to your door to eat at you some more. Old are New gremlins some just like to make your shop a resort...

A guy just make a good post on facebook, a 2011 chebby cruse 3 alternators had been installed at $500 a piece just for the alt. It took him 2/3 hr to track down a bad ground. He got a modest wadge out of it and the satisfaction he won the R&R tech got labor for replacing 3 alternators.

One I ran across this week a 99 Chrysler 325K on the clock. The owner had installed a water pump himself shortly after the check engine light comes on PO340 (cam sensor). He had thrown a bucket full of cam sensors at it, He removed the timing covers to find it was not out of time. The problem is its missing the 5V reference on the cam signal wire the puter has taken a dump... Just luck of the draw I guess you would try and link it to replacing the cam belt driven water pump are aftermarket parts. I will admit I am 2 hr. into this thang the answer was right there under my nose I did not perform a complete circuit test. To compound matters Alldata did not list the correct wiring at the puter I had to go to another source to locate it then search hard for a connector view hidden deep in the information.

I am going to charge 2hr for my time and my sharp looking red head a 10K scanner gets 1 hr. I have to get 1hr for her, her grocery bill is $115 a month... She is hooked on updates from snap-on its a bad habit its my fraught it does keep her looking sharp I should have never forced it on her but I like for her to look good... She knows at any-given time I will trade her in on a newer younger faster gal. :D

All this makes me want to get a job driving a truck at least the miles I put behind me I can pocket the money. Are as they say every turn of the wheels gets me closer to home... A mechanic spends alot of time spinning his wheels he gets no were home does not come to him he has to search for it...
 
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