Plumbing / Pex And Soldering Copper

Hi ,

I know that everyone has their own special preferences here , so let's not start a war ,please !

I have to do some plumbing in the next few weekends with PVC or Pex as well as with copper . Which is better , PVC or PEX ? Debateing on wheather or not I should use PVC or PEX to replumb a bathroom sink . Looks like I'll have to use PEX as I can't get the wall open enough and will have to feed it through the wall and PEX has a little more flexability . Should I use the sharkbite fittings or the cheaper ones ? Which is better - PVC or PEX , shark bite fittings or the cheaper ones ? Any tricks to using this stuff or crimping that I should know before hand to do it right the first time with no leaks ?

Also , I have a Copper T connecter leaking after no telling how many years ! I was told that there was two types of copper lines - soft and hard and one will swell up and not fit connectors that I might buy in advance ! Is this true ? I know the basics of soldering copper pipes , saw it on tv and in real life , but never done it on my own ! Any tricks of the trade in order to do this right the first time ? They told me to clean off line around leak and try resoldering it first using MAP gas as it is hotter and it might reseal that way before I cut lines . Small leak .

Both lines or 1/2 inch at least or next size down .

Also , how hard is it to connect PVC or copper to PEX and splice in new work with PEX to old work wheather it be PVC or PEX ? What about to galvanized pipe ? It's an old farm house in the country .

Thank you for any and all help !


Thanks,
Whizkid

You know Whizkidkyus if you're asking these kind of questions I suggest you hire a plumber. You don't know the difference between the different type of pipe.

I would sujest you do more research on your topic before you undertake any rework. After your research then procede using shark bite connectors from copper to pex. The pex I use is called "wirsbow" and made out of "sergical" grade type plasrics, it is also impervious to brackage from freezing: not like the hard side so called pex or pvc or copper ALL which will split if water in them is frozen.
Using shark bite conectors, they are push on connectors, no saldering needed, just cleaned pipe joint areas. These connectors will work with copper, and " plastics" and come with one end threaded to fit pipe also, depending on which type of shark bite connector you need.
Wm.

Yep,a person can only digest a certain amount at one setting.

If you're going with PEX, I suggest you rent/buy a crimping tool and use the crimp fittings with the metal rings. Sharkbite are ridiculously expensive (like $10 each) and some of that type have been found to leak after a while.

Two tips for copper, clean-clean-clean. And you can't solder copper that has water in it.

First things first -- I wholeheartedly agree with the other posts. Do more research so that you can understand what's going on, whether you choose to do the job yourself or not.

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]Which is better , PVC or PEX ?
Looks like I'll have to use PEX as I can't get the wall open enough and will have to feed it through the wall and PEX has a little more flexability .[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
Well, one down. *lol* At least we can assume PEX, according to your words.

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]shark bite fittings or the cheaper ones ?[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
I've never used Shark Bite fittings, and likely never will. Am also fairly new to using PEX but it's getting pretty dang hard to find what I need in anything [i:61375d3221]but [/i:61375d3221]PEX anymore! I have re-done some of the plumbing of the house and still have more to go so I have invested in the proper crimping tools for the jobs I have. If only a few fittings, then likely to not ever use PEX again (or not for many years), my "personal opinion" is that a person would be foolish to shell out for the tools when the Shark Bite fittings are there and will make the job go faster/easier.

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]Also , I have a Copper T connecter leaking after no telling how many years ! I was told that there was two types of copper lines - soft and hard and one will swell up and not fit connectors that I might buy in advance ! Is this true ?[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
Can't say. You probably know as much about PEX as I do about copper. *lol*

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]They told me to clean off line around leak and try resoldering it first using MAP gas as it is hotter and it might reseal that way before I cut lines . Small leak .[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
First off, who is "They"?!?!?!?!?!?????? If it's the same "they" I've listened to in the past, "they" tend to leave out juuuuuust enough information to get me into trouble! :wink: CAN it be re-soldered? Can't say. What I "DO" know is, you best be real careful if you try this. I've seen actual plumbers in real life who weren't paying close enough attention and caught stuff on fire that they didn't intend to. Heard of one guy who was real experienced and thought he'd try sweating a fitting in a tight area, difficult to see into. Flame heated up the wood (or "something"), wood? smoldered for several hours, then the building burnt down later. Personally, I think Mr. Murphy had a hand in this. (you know...Murphy's law?)

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]Both lines or 1/2 inch at least or next size down .[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
Say again?? In any case, if you're only feeding a bathroom sink, the feeder line coming from the main water line (a few feet long) can be as small as 3/8". Personally, I would go with 1/2", if possible.

[i:61375d3221][color=blue:61375d3221]Also , how hard is it to connect PVC or copper to PEX and splice in new work with PEX to old work wheather it be PVC or PEX ? What about to galvanized pipe ? It's an old farm house in the country .[/color:61375d3221][/i:61375d3221]
Again, this is somewhat confusing....but I [i:61375d3221]think[/i:61375d3221] I understand. Firstly, don't matter if old farmhouse or not. Matters much more what existing plumbing is. If existing plumbing is all copper, then one should "try" to stay with copper. However, as you mentioned initially, inaccessibility and having to bend the pipe probably means having to use something like PEX, since it's available. As for how difficult it is connecting between the various types of piping, it's not, really. There are ample fittings out there to go from any one to any other, SO LONG AS the person knows/understands what they're doing. There are even Shark Bite fittings that go from copper to PEX.

Now, to throw yet ANOTHER monkey wrench into the mix, you need to know that there are two different kinds of PEX tubing; Barrier and Non-Barrier. I'm not gonna even try to get into that, as 1) it's beyond my comfort zone and 2) .....see, I don't even know enough to know what #2 is. *lol* If you have an active leak, how bad is it? If bad enough that you fear water damage, turn off the water and call a Pro ASAP. If it's just leaking harmlessly into an unfinished basement or crawl space, then you might have time to study up on things. I say "might" because without actually seeing what you have, nobody on planet Earth could know if the existing plumbing is solid-but-leaking, or about to burst open and flood the house. You're there -- use your best guess.

One final word: "IF" you attempt to make the repair(s) yourself, and "IF" any of this includes sweating a fitting, then I cannot emphasize enough for you to buy some extra fittings (cheapest size and shape you can find) and practice sweating joints OUTSIDE of your home!! Otherwise, you might end up adding another 1/2-hour of charges to the Pro who does the re-work.

"[i:9570277c9b]There are even Shark Bite fittings that go from copper to PEX[/i:9570277c9b]. "

I meant to delete this, as I thought about it and now am not certain. Seems like there is though.

Hard to answer without getting long winded about it. I am set up to deal with pex and use it for most every plumbing job other than drains. PVC requires no tools and is cheap. Pex is a better set up IMO but requires either a tooling investment or expensive fittings. Which is right for you depends on if plumbing projects are going to be a regular part of your future? The quick, easy and tool less sharkbite type fittings are available under several brand names but they are very expensive for projects that require lots of them. Crimp type fittings are much cheaper but require tooling to set them and space considerations may prevent you from getting the crimp toll where it needs to be. There is also two types of compression fittings My preference is the compression ring but they require a tool for each size or a combo tool. Pinch clamps are more spendy but you only need one tool. There are all sorts of adapters to go from one product to another. Around us a person will USUALLY find a knowledgeable person in the plumbing section of the big box store, usually an old guy.

Your leaking fitting cannot be soldered if water remains in the pipe. Personally I never had much luck re soldering a leaking fitting in place anyway. Heat it up until the fitting can be removed, then clean it up and re soldered it.

Every type of pipe has it's advantages. However newer technology typically has improvements along with it.

1 Copper pipe - oldest and still viable

2 Steel pipe - Used to be cheaper than copper, and it rigid. Makes a good self supporting installation like a yard faucet.

3 PVC - Cheap but durable if supported and kept out of the sunlight and never freezes. CPVC is for hot water and sizes don't mix.

4 PEX - Newest and freeze proof. Mice will chew through it and make a leak. Never had mice chew PVC, Steel, or Copper.

You don't need MAPP gas to repair copper. It has to be so clean you can use propane or you'll not get a good repair. Experts, who know what to look for, and have made many repairs, can fudge with MAPP gas on occasion but it is not for the novice.

PEX use crimp connectors as recommended. The price of Shark Bite makes them suitable for use at change of materials.

Old steel pipe in a farmhouse on well water will likely be mostly plugged, and if it is leaking one place you'll probably find messing with it makes it leak at the next joint.

I hate plumbing.

Pex is much easier to work with than copper, more permanent than PVC.

Sharkbite connectors are very expensive, but you need a crimping tool to use the cheaper crimp style fittings.

If you can borrow a crimper, the crimp style are better for in the wall use as they are more permanent than Sharkbite. However, Sharkbite is an easier way to adapt from copper or CPVC to Pex.

As for trying to resolder a leaking fitting, no that will not work. It will have to be removed and replaced.

Hard copper vs soft copper: Hard copper is for straight runs, it has very little ability to bend without kinking. Soft copper is used where the line needs to be formed into place. The "swelling" you mentioned is caused from freezing. Soft copper will swell more than hard copper without bursting. Problem is, when you cut out a bad section, the fittings won't fit because of the swelling.

Before you start this project, spend some time on Youtube. There are many good sources of how to video for all kinds of plumbing. Also familiarize yourself with the proper names and configurations of available fittings. Make a detailed list before going shopping, especially if you go to a plumbing supply and ask for help.

If you are connecting copper to (galvanized) steel or iron pipe, you need to use an insulated coupling or sacrificial anode to minimize galvanic corrosion. If you are not familiar with galvanic corrosion, Google it.

Whizkid, There is a lot of good information here, except for "if you need to ask you should hire it done." I have two things to add: A major disadvantage to copper is it's relatively short life span in acidic water, and that there are two basic different types of copper. The first is schedule L which is what you use for water supply It comes in both soft and hard. The second type is schedule M, which is only for heating system use because it is much thinner walled, and would not last as long as L in corrosive water.

For that leaking tee, a sharkbite is a good way to go. You might need to lengthen the pipe, so maybe sharkbite couplers, and put a pex tee in the middle. I'd take pex over PVC. As for crimp fittings, you can rent a crimper at Meynards or some other hardware stores.

Most anywhere there is a plumbing code it is not legal to enclose a sharkbite inside a wall. When (not if) they leak you will want to be able to see it and fix it.

Crimp rings applied with the proper tools are the best way to go - otherwise why would folks invest in the tools?

Do not use refrigeration tube (hard coppper) for water plumbing.

There are some good forums specifically for plumbing questions where real plumbers will give you advice. You will get a better response if you don't ask so many questions at once - the plumbers might see the list and just tell you to get a plumber.

https://www.plbg.com/forum/list.php?1,page=1

https://www.ridgidforum.com/

I bought a pex crimper for $29, at Menard's if I remember right. Oersceln's had the same thing for $59. Either one would be money well spent. I always like to own my own tools, but for either price you'd soon go past the purchase price if you rented one.

Whizkid,
I re-did all of the plumbing in my old 2 story farmhouse 12 years ago with pex. I used the ring connectors, not the sharkbites, and have had no leaks. Like others have said, clean the copper well before soldering. Use a fine steel wool or better yet, emery cloth. Get it shiny! Then apply flux, and I would also recommend using MAP gas. Tried a propane torch with no success. The only copper line in my house now is the 1/4" to the icemaker in the fridge. I had to solder barbed connections at the water heater and where the supply came in to the house to go from copper to pex. I have no pvc so I cannot speak about it, good or bad.

Mike

Forget the plastic. Use copper. Plastic is for amateurs.

I know there are a lot of things said about sharkbite fittings. I used some on my water heater over 10yrs ago I don't know if they were called sharkbite at the time but same thing. I used them on copper pipe and as of today they are still not leaking. This is on the hot and cold water side, I have my water heater turned up to 190* that should say something about them.

Pex is the easiest. Shark bite fittings will go from 1/2" pvc to copper to pex the outside dia. Is all the same. 3/4 pex to copper to pvc if the size is 3/4"all the piping has the same outside dia. When you go from gal piping thats when you will need a male of female adapter from iron pipe size to copper or pex or pvc. They make an adapter for each of those. Rent or buy the clamping tool. Buy the clamp rings you need in 1/2" or 3/4" there are specific rings that are used with each tool. If you havent soldered before one of the toughest places is in a wall with burnables. I would be very careful have spray bottle of water and fire extinguisher with you. Shark bite a tee in its place. If your going to solder the reason it leaked was the joint was never cleaned or soldered properly 99 % of the time you have to take the fitting apart when its been in that long.

I have worked construction a long time. If I had to, I believe I could build my own house, if I were physically able. I did build my garage and a couple of others. I completely remodeled my kitchen a few years ago. Complete tear out, gutted, replace, floor to ceiling. I did all the wiring and electrical work. I hired a plumber. IT'S JUST NOT WORTH THE AGGRAVATION! To me anyway

I have my own, and when I was managing rentals, I used them regularly. If it is a one time deal though, no point in buying. There are very few items I rent since my theory is if I know I'm going to need it more than three times, I probably should own it.

Copper is spendy, especially when it deteriorates due to the water quality. Also much easier to run pex and it will usually survive freezing.

(quoted from post at 08:23:58 02/26/18) Forget the plastic. Use copper. Plastic is for amateurs.

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WGM, many people want something that will last over twenty years. Copper can go longer but often lasts less.

How do you expect him to learn if he does not try. I am sure everything you worked on you knew everything about it.