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Beware: Gas Co. has new laws for pipeline on your land

F

Fritz Maurer

Well-known Member
Friend of mine called for a locate service as he was going to be digging near their line. He didn't need to cross it, but he wanted to know exactly where it was so he could adjust the project accordingly. Gas rep arrives on the scene, locates the pipe (54" deep) and wants to know the S/N of each machine on the property. Now, a bridge must be constructed (on flat land) over the pipeline for the equipment to cross, and must never drive over the pipeline again. When asked why neighboring farms are not affected this way, the Rep said, "They didn't call for a locate". Now, he has a rectangular 30 acre tract to which the back half is accessible only by this bridge over dry land.
 
Most pipeline leases are for life and they regulated by Fed DOT yes dept. of transportation because it involves intrastate and interstate transportation of produced goods. I don't have enough room on the bookshelf for the regulations that govern pipelines. Sad but true the gas guy had to fill out a ton of paper for this locate and show that he followed the rules or he becomes liable for any damage on that property. Was he a jerk, you bet ya.
The bridge, s/n's all are all covered in regs.
Sad part they got us when we signed the lease.
 
I believe they cannot deny access to remainder of the property, and the cost or burden should be on them. From personal experience the more persistent a person is regarding these things the better because it will get tossed aside until someone up the ladder get's tired of hearing it.
 
We farm over several big lines with big equipment,,never heard of this "yet",, I am sure it is how ever it is inturpeded by the inspector, much like the truck laws are..
 
I thought all gas lines were pretty deep and were steel. Why would anyone want to give them the right-of-way across your property if this is the case.
 
How old is the pipeline? It may have been installed long before today's large heavy equipment was a consideration. If the pipeline was not designed to work with today's large farm equipment, and future equipment is likely to be even larger, what are some reasonable solutions?
 
Leases must state return to ag or commercial use, otherwise they do minimal cover and protection. Another let the buyer beware deal, don't sign a lease without knowing what your rights are.
You are correct it's up to inspector interpretation. Inspectors oversee construction and repairs. While Techs generally do line locates. I have ordered many such locates for pipeline repairs. Techs generally work with the land owner a little. And are supposed to report an issue with the landowners so that the land man comes and works out the issue. (in a perfect world)

This is why I do not have a pipeline on my property they were going to build a 100' right of way through the center of 2 open fields diagonally. Yes lease was for return to ag. use. but never be able to dig or repair drainage issues or develop property for an other reason. I asked that they used a 40' row and I would lease additional space for construction only. Also asked that they rerouted to hug hedgerows so as to not cross diagonally.
It was easier for them to go to the neighbor I guess. I was to get 80K for the lease but not sorry.
 
This is very common with pipelines now days. the bridge that I most often make people construct is made out of timber mats laying across the line if it is an air bridge the first set lays parallel to the pipeline and the crossing set of timbers are put on top of the leaving air between the crossing and the pipeline. Myself and all pipeline techs. are given standards to work by and depending on the depth, age and pressure on the line tells the extent of the crossing materials people are to use, in the past simply adding dirt to the crossing would be enough, most likely the equipment is just not your typical farm equipment. also you cannot believe the amount of time we are told this is my land and I pay all the taxes on it and will do whatever I want to do on it. The Right of Way gives the pipeline company quite a lot of rights. I was asking a guy just to not cross a pipeline with an excavator in his field only use his driveways, he became violently mad and said it was his farm and he would do as he pleased, then he started complaining about the depth of the line. So I am not saying this is the kind of case you are referring about but this is an incite to the other side of the issue. I hope this helps John
 
Stephen ....... OK, throw him off and ignore the order. Then what after you find yourself in some kind of a legal mess? Hire yourself a lawyer at $300 per hour to fight something that you're unlikely to win. Just wondering ......
 
(quoted from post at 07:29:56 03/25/18) Do you have a reference to this law?

Story sounds hokey.
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not hokey david, I worked for a gas co. for 10 years, not only do you have to build a crossing over their pipe (up here you can use dirt or gravel 4 ft. deep or a bridge) but you must notify them when you are crossing and they will send out a co. rep to witness the crossing. it comes from an accident years ago when a co. was installing plastic rural gas lines in northern alberta, they where supposed to call any pipeline co. who's line they had to cross, wait until that co. came out and located the pipe, haul in gravel to get the 2 ft' clearance between lines, and then cross. contractor got p od about all the time it took so he got the crew to take off early in the morning using 2 d-9's one pulling and one plowing in the line with 2 young summer students walking along behind with shovels cleaning up the furrow. they crossed one of our 36" lines early in the morning (grazed the pipe took the yellow jacket off but didn't hit the pipe) in the afternoon after dropping lines at 2 farms they again crossed the line again and hit it dead center. there was nothing left of the plow cat but a melted frame, the 2 young summer students where vaporized just found a boot of one of them, plow cat driver the same. the pull cat driver was found about a 100 ft in front of his cat burnt to death. when i got there there was a combine and grainery still on fire, nothing left of the grainery but smoldering grain and the combine was still burning. a 36" gas line with a 1000. lbs pressure will make a very big crematorioum!! so you can thank that construction co. for your regs today.
 
(quoted from post at 11:36:25 03/25/18) This is very common with pipelines now days. the bridge that I most often make people construct is made out of timber mats laying across the line if it is an air bridge the first set lays parallel to the pipeline and the crossing set of timbers are put on top of the leaving air between the crossing and the pipeline. Myself and all pipeline techs. are given standards to work by and depending on the depth, age and pressure on the line tells the extent of the crossing materials people are to use, in the past simply adding dirt to the crossing would be enough, most likely the equipment is just not your typical farm equipment. also you cannot believe the amount of time we are told this is my land and I pay all the taxes on it and will do whatever I want to do on it. The Right of Way gives the pipeline company quite a lot of rights. I was asking a guy just to not cross a pipeline with an excavator in his field only use his driveways, he became violently mad and said it was his farm and he would do as he pleased, then he started complaining about the depth of the line. So I am not saying this is the kind of case you are referring about but this is an incite to the other side of the issue. I hope this helps John
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John thanks for chiming in I'm not against gas companies and most all you guys that run the fields, as a matter of fact I have worked with several and have become friends with some. Much respect to you guys who I believe have a very tough job. I've dealt with the same guys who wanted to drive through soft ground over a line.
The only point I stress is the leases and how they are written.
 
Farmer ...... when did that accident happen? I don't recollect any of that and I follow the news pretty closely I think.
 
I am darn glad I do not have any land with pipelines on it. If they ever try I will fight them all I can to keep them off. I know first hand the trouble these darn things can cause. I have been the executor twice in my life. The first was for an elderly spinster Great Aunt. Right as she passed away she signed an easement for a cross country gasoline to be put on her property. I know all she was thinking of was the "MONEY" she was getting. She had no real idea of how it would effect her land for the future. It took three years to get things settle as the pipeline was being put in as this was going on. I do not know if ALL installations were like this one but it was a total nightmare. The cut and plugged the entire tile system for half the farm. Turned good farm land into swamp as these same lines carried water from several farms so it all dumped on my Great Aunts ground. Had to take them to court twice to get them repaired. Fences torn out and not repaired or replaced. Another trip to court. Then the big issue was the pipe was to be a minimum of six foot deep so there would be at least four foot of ground on top of it. On the back forty they cut across the entire field. Using a regular long screw driver I could probe the top of the pipe at around 18 inches under ground. Talked to the contractor as they were laying it and they blew me off stating they were digging six foot by the GPS an I was wrong. This caused the FIRST trip to court. Turns out the line was shallow along much of the route. Thankfully this was found before any gas was in the line. They had dig along side of the pipeline and put it at the correct depth. After everything was done we where able to sell the land. It went for a reduced price because of the pipeline easement. Her estate lost $50K on the deal. She received $25K for the original easement. The legal fees and reduce value cost over $75K. This was in 1996-1999.


I am all for progress but the pipeline companies and politicians have gotten together and made your land basically unusable after there is a pipe line put on it. It becomes the line owners and your screwed changing anything to do with it after the fact.
 
We also farm over a couple big lines and have never heard of this. A couple of years ago they did an inspection where they uncovered a 50 foot section and upon completion placed the soil back over the top of it. No such order was given to stay off that section once done.
 
(quoted from post at 08:59:41 03/25/18) Farmer ...... when did that accident happen? I don't recollect any of that and I follow the news pretty closely I think.
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crazy horse it was july 1978, the co. was spade const. (gone after that one) I was working for alberta gas trunkline, later became nova, nova now rolled into tcpl. the line hit was north and east of Fairview. I was coming home from boundry lake meter station by ft. st. john when they hit it, you could see the fire ball from about 20 miles away. my apprentice and I where first co. employees on scene. that scene has never left my mind.
 
And at the other end of the spectrum is the well gathering lines. They don't show up on a one call system locate call but you are still responsible if the line is hit when doing something. When building my pole barn I called multiple times to the nieghbors well company and could barely get a response. The way I got them to come out was to shut the line valve and wait them out. The well tender showed up and located it for me he said he had to come out because of low line pressure alarm and had to do a bunch of checking to find the valve station in the corner of my field. He ask if I had shut the valve, I said no with a Cheshire cat smile. He gave me his cell number and said if I needed anything vin the future to call first.
 
After he's gone who is going to come back and monitor if a bridge is being built or if you are following their guidelines. They aren't going to go to that much trouble. If they were going to do that they would get every neighbor on the line.
 
Been with a large natural gas company now for 38 years, 7 months and we do not set the guide lines or rules that make us look like the bad guys, this all comes down from the Feds. My company does not tell land owners that they cannot Farm their property across our high pressure transmission lines, the problem we have mostly is in rural cross country right of ways where loggers move in to clear cut the timber and they push out roads across our pipelines and are continually crossing the pipe with heavy equipment, therefore we require them to construct a pad to cross over the pipeline. If loggers don?t comply they can be shut down immediately until a mounded pad is built over the crossing
 
There are several lines that are near me, one is the Rocky Espressos, a 48" line,, several Texas Eastern lines 18,20,and 36" lines, some times the do blow, and it is a scary event, a Texas eastern line 15 miles from me was hit by a vibrating line plow hooked to a D-8 dozer, it incinerated the driver and the poor guy that was walking behind the machine to near nothing..
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All of the wells around me were drilled in the mid 1980s and are mostly all depleted to the point they only can provide enough gas to satisfy the lease agreement be for free gas to the landowner. In this state as long as a well is in production it does not have to be capped. Letting the landowner have the gas is an easy way to avoid the cost of capping. There are some wells like the one next to me that still produce pretty good and are worth maintaining. The line that crosses me is a little thing only about 2" and is actually pushed through the old 4" steel line that rusted out. The well company are the ones that are bad not so much the guys in the trucks doing bthe work.
 
If he has been driving across it for years then he can keep doing it with out a court order. Even then a court order would hold no water because he should automatically be grand fathered in or the gas company would have to pay him for not being able to use his land
 
How are pipelines monitored now? Important buried telephone lines and communication lines have been monitored from the air since at least the 1960's. A cable patrol plane used to fly down the telephone line past dad's farm every a week. Today, drones could easily do the same job.

I can pull up google maps and count the 12 inch square vents on my roof, the same technology would have little trouble finding muddy tire tracks crossing over a pipeline if anyone bothered to look.
 
Farmer .............. Man, that was indeed a bad one. So 40 years ago, no wonder I don't remember it. I guess when you think about it, all
the rules and regulations and hoops a person has to jump through nowadays are there for a reason, although they often seem to be a bit
ridiculous and over the top. The planet is in bad enough shape as it is, I wonder what it would be like without all of this government
"interference" that people always complain about?
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:24 03/25/18) After he's gone who is going to come back and monitor if a bridge is being built or if you are following their guidelines. They aren't going to go to that much trouble. If they were going to do that they would get every neighbor on the line.
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Stephen they may not come back, they may not come back until you hit the line, In which case it will be to repair the line, and fill in the hole (see tim s pic). the coroner will have already been there to see if he can find any parts of you (unlikely) or the tractor you where riding on. I will grant you Stephen that some gas and oil co.'s are arrogant and rude, especialy if they have a lease on your property, and yes a few will come in unannounced and tear up fields and driveways and thumb there nose at you, but most including the one I worked for had people hired to work with and notify land owners and keep everyone informed and work with the land owners. we NEVER came on private property with out the land owner being notified ahead of time, our co. land rep went ahead of us and was there usually with the land owner when we got there to do any work. the land owner was welcome to stay and watch (unless digging out a hot line) and any concerns he had where taken seriously and delt with. any gas or oil co. with any commen sense do's NOT want confrontation with the land owners along it's right of way, access is key to keeping a smooth running pipeline and you in no way want to bugger that up.
 
(quoted from post at 09:49:24 03/25/18) After he's gone who is going to come back and monitor if a bridge is being built or if you are following their guidelines. They aren't going to go to that much trouble. If they were going to do that they would get every neighbor on the line.
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Stephen they may not come back, they may not come back until you hit the line, In which case it will be to repair the line, and fill in the hole (see tim s pic). the coroner will have already been there to see if he can find any parts of you (unlikely) or the tractor you where riding on. I will grant you Stephen that some gas and oil co.'s are arrogant and rude, especialy if they have a lease on your property, and yes a few will come in unannounced and tear up fields and driveways and thumb there nose at you, but most including the one I worked for had people hired to work with and notify land owners and keep everyone informed and work with the land owners. we NEVER came on private property with out the land owner being notified ahead of time, our co. land rep went ahead of us and was there usually with the land owner when we got there to do any work. the land owner was welcome to stay and watch (unless digging out a hot line) and any concerns he had where taken seriously and delt with. any gas or oil co. with any commen sense do's NOT want confrontation with the land owners along it's right of way, access is key to keeping a smooth running pipeline and you in no way want to bugger that up.
 
Stephen, gas company employees will come through your property several times a year so any thing that?s not up to snuff will be discovered by gas employees such as the right-of-way crews when cutting, leak surveyor, cathodic protection crews, etc. All of these guys will becoming through annually and sometimes multiple times a year due to a ?Class? location as defined by the Public Service Commission , also fly overs are performed as well.....
 
Stealing is stealing.

How would you like it if the city decided they need more storage for their endless records, and so they were going to take a room from everyone's house.

It might be a closet in one house, and a bedroom is someone else's house, and so forth, no ryhme or reason.

They would say it is still your house, so you have to pay taxes on it, but they get to use the one room they need. Before they get it, you need to put new carpeting in it.

If the room they take means you can't access other rooms behind it, well that is certainly unfortunate, you will need to build an outside access to the rest of your rooms. Oh, you need permits for the new contrition, and taxes will go up because that new door and hallway have increased the value of your house.

Would you just shrug that off? 'Oh well, it's progress.'

Paul
 
A home owner wanted me to disk the weeds on a right-of-way behind her house. She purchased the right-of-way from the city. On the east side there is a high pressure gas line. Signs posted every so far apart. They can't be missed. I asked her about the line. She said the gas co. said it was ok to run over it. I did it for a couple years. I felt anxious about disking over it. I told her I wasn't doing it any more. May have been ok, but I didn't need any problems. Stan
 
Sounds like the pipeline rep first encroachment. It all comes down to load stress calculation for each pipe if more than one line are in the row. Pipe dia., pipe grade, wall thickness and mop (maximum operating pressure) and weight of equipment are needed. All pipelines are different I know but 60" of dirt was always what was called for. This is nothing new.

I have been retired over 10 years from a natural gas pipeline co. It may be something New in what's required for tracking encroachment. I don't know. I would make some more phone calls to the home office. There is someone that is over the row department and that would be who I would check with and get a better explanation about crossing the pipe.

And tell your friend what is required of him is also required of his neighbors whether they call or not.
 

There's are pipeline buried on the back field on property that my parents bought in 1956 that I inherited in 1990. I've plowed over the buried pipelines many times over the yrs with no problems. I've seen how deep the pipes(3+ ft) are when the pipes were repaired & I've never owned a plow that would go near that depth.
 
Yepper. A load of BS. Fake news. Disinformation. Common today. I have a 10" and 13" crossing my property carrying petroleum derivates of one sort or another. Was here 40 years ago when I bought the place and the easement was with my deed when purchasing.

The pipeline has changed hands several times over the years and all had the same attitude, sending me contact information, tips on pipeline easements and all. Every once in awhile a business class chopper flies the line to check it. The fences that cross it have marker signs immediately above the pipes. Most are 3' or more below the surface so farming activities are not affected. Call and we will come out and help you is their motto. I have several times and they have and they have been very helpful in assisting me with my construction necessities.
 
WGM ...... hmmmm, a load of BS because:

-Fritz and/or his friend are lying?
-the agencies are scamming the land owner?
-you've never experienced the same thing?
-you just don't believe what happened?
-by nature you are a disbeliever?

We await your reason for calling him out on the post ...... Crazy Horse
 
Well the post said "digging " not plowing. If digging and running dump trucks and heavy equipment over the pipeline then everything would be different than plowing over a pipeline. In south Georgia when pipe depths were an issue the pipeline co lowered the lines at co. expense.

Bridging over the line may be what's required. I would call the ROW departmen.
 
Lots of pipe lines in this area, actually refered to as pipeline capital of state with more being installed all the time. I don't think any are over 15" including new ones being installed, this past year they installed 4 lines just far enough apart to work them all at the same time and all are farmed over. I remember when I was little 65? years ago they used one wheel machine digging half depth with a second following in trench throwing dirt the other way to get full depth. This was an 8" line following a 6" line. We farmed over them for years. Those rulls would close dozens of roads including the interstates and cut the farmable land by a quarter. Big refinery less than 20 mile from me with a second 50 mile from me. Then anouther 100 mile from me. All in my state. So with all the refinerys a lot of pipelines.
 
(quoted from post at 10:25:51 03/26/18) Lots of pipe lines in this area, actually refered to as pipeline capital of state with more being installed all the time. I don't think any are over 15" including new ones being installed, this past year they installed 4 lines just far enough apart to work them all at the same time and all are farmed over. I remember when I was little 65? years ago they used one wheel machine digging half depth with a second following in trench throwing dirt the other way to get full depth. This was an 8" line following a 6" line. We farmed over them for years. Those rulls would close dozens of roads including the interstates and cut the farmable land by a quarter. Big refinery less than 20 mile from me with a second 50 mile from me. Then anouther 100 mile from me. All in my state. So with all the refinerys a lot of pipelines.
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Main roads and Interstates are most always bored (horizontally drilled) Pits can be seen the side of roadways 30-40 feet deep when in process. Depth is decided by several factors pipe size, road load, composition of soil, nearby drainage and so on. The Ohio river has been crossed using these methods.
Open cut trenching (backroads, private driveways and even trails or tractor paths generally are dug deeper and filled with cementacious materials to form a concrete like protection for the pipe as well counter settling. Some lesser use paths or roadways may just get backfilled with good binding aggregates and compacted . If the lease stipulates the land for ag. use then
the area is to be built to accommodate. If you have a roadway crossing or need one it needed to be stipulated when the lease was drawn. Pipeline and ROW engineers are commissioned to design their line based on the need of the gas/oil company and the most desirable and direct path utilizing all of the topography features and any stipulation that the land owner may have. If no such stipulations are made then the pipeline will be built to minimum standards, with out consideration to our back 40.
As far as older lines and crossing them I have seen severally corroded lines with 12" of cover. After 50-60 years topography can change for many reasons, IMHO I want to know where they are so as to avoid what earlier posters has stated as fact. Fortunitatly have not witnessed these disasters but have heard about them several times. Most of the companies I have worked with were very willing to discuss options to correct the OP friend's situation. Gas/oil companies can get a bad rap and I found they generally will try to resolve these issues.
 
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