O T junkyards, fixing cars, self-driving cars

Did not want to hijack the thread below on junkyards ? I have not visited a junkyard in serval years so I don?t know what they?re like around my area now (western PA). I know a lot of people like myself who can tinker on their cars to keep them running as the car ages, and their cars don?t run like brand new but they do work and get you where you need to go. For example my 1995 truck, the air conditioning doesn?t work, electric mirrors don?t work, the intermittent wipers don?t work, and my mechanic unhooked some vacuum hoses so it wouldn?t stall at the stop sign. I have to think that with the idea of eventually going to self driving cars, with all the sensors, electronics, computers, and technology that would be in them, the car would have to be in top-notch condition to work properly and avoid accidents. This would prevent people from fixing their own cars or driving a car that is not in perfect condition, which could be unaffordable for a lot. I?m not trying to be skeptical but I don?t see that for self driving cars, unless EVERYONE has one, and they are all in excellent working condition,the idea will not work.

The times they are a changin!

Hard to imagine the concept of totally self driving will ever be reached, just too many variables involved that will require driver/operator input and control.

Whether it be voice control, a keyboard or just an override switch there has to be something to handle situations such as;

Lets stop at that garage sale we just passed
Little Johnny needs to pee
Lets grab an ice cream or burger on the way...

As long as the human control factor is present which it pretty much well has to be then total self driving technology will never be achieved.

Would be interesting though if it did.
If you truly had no control of the vehicle then technically you would not be liable for any tickets.
Would not need a drivers license.
Could not get an impaired charge.
Should not even need insurance either.

Farm equipment is already headed down that road.

It's not that you won't be able to fix it yourself, you just have to step up your game on the fixing.

I've never seen a carb that would give you a diagnostic code to say exactly what is wrong with it.

And remember, some days Russian hackers are your friends!

I could see them [helpful] on long stretches of western interstate highways.
Kinda like the notches in the edges of the highways to warn you when you get to close to the edge.
Miles and miles of nothing can get you complacent.

The biggest problem I see is we can't afford to repair the roads we have with 100 year old paving technology. How then, are we going to afford upgrading ALL roads to perfect pavement with the embedded transponders to make true driverless cars a possibility? They are currently trying to run autonomous cars off GPS and cameras, that have proven to be fallible with fatal results. Autonomous cars will need to rely on embedded sensors in roads and signs to make them truly viable. Right now, they can only stop where GPS says to, or it sees a stop sign on camera. What if there is a construction zone with a temporary stop sign not plotted on GPS, and has been rendered unreadable due to an event like weather putting it on the ground? That's right, currently you could end up in a hole or off the end of an overpass. You should be smart enough to register the danger, but a computer may not be. With a transponder in it, that stop sign is still a stop sign to the car, even if it can't be seen. Current computer technology that is affordable enough to mass produce is not fast enough at depth perception or word recognition to do this. GPS cannot be counted on to help with depth perception, as it has a hard time determining height and distance under 100 feet, in my experience, not good enough to run a car by. I personally think self driving and electric cars are being pushed as a formatter of population control. Self driving cars can be limited in where they will ALLOW you to go, and electric limits how FAR you can go.

Times change, technology advances, priorities change...

Our generation grew up in simpler times, vehicles were easily repaired, a trip to the salvage yard was a normal everyday event, a way to save money or find an obsolete part. The saying "the best car to have is one that is paid for" was valid.

Tell that to a millennial, or gen X, or whatever they are called now.

"Car needs a water pump", a what?

Take it to the dealer "That will be $1500. No prob! Put it on the credit card". Oh, the card won't work... Well let's go look at the new cars!"

As for self driving cars, I agree, they will all have to be self driving, and in communication with each other to be practical. They will be so complex, require specialized software and computer programs that anything beyond changing a flat will be a trip to the dealer.

The cars would have to have safeguards that would disable it, or at least put it out of automatic operation if anything went wrong or any attempt to repair or modify it were detected. Think of the liability involved, the mfg would have to go to great lengths to protect themselves and their software!

Experiments with autonomous cars have already started to run up a death toll. I sincerely doubt if there ever will be software or computers that are comprehensive enough to be completely safe.

One thing is certain, though. Farmer fixes will simply not work on such vehicles. Everything will have to be 100% correct with Ts crossed and Is dotted or the whole thing is destined to fail.

Pretty much my train of thought also. If the occupant truly has no control, does all liability fall on the manufacturer? Will there be a "black box" device to hold proof of occupant's attempt (or lack thereof) to
assume control? I would think the manufacturer would WANT an out, to minimize their own risk, and as a result there would be some kind of "off" switch.

Good points Determined ..... except for one ..... the insurance you carry is on the vehicle (and whatever
issues arise from it being driven, etc) regardless of who is driving it (even without permission). So the
coverage is for the vehicle as well as the driver. At least up here it is.

https://www.eitdigital.eu/news-events/blog/article/guess-what-requires-150-million-lines-of-code/

Not that I think 150 million lines of code is a bad thing as long as they step up their diagnostic information to support it.

Toyota has their diagnostic info is to kill for and its a free down load you pay $20 for two days access...

techinfo.toyota.com

The bad you will have to have a (JBOX) J2534 Passthru Programming Device.

Yep. You will need to drive good vehicles and send old junk to the scrapper or park it in the yard to hold plants.

(quoted from post at 12:16:49 11/10/18) Good points Determined ..... except for one ..... the insurance you carry is on the vehicle (and whatever
issues arise from it being driven, etc) regardless of who is driving it (even without permission). So the
coverage is for the vehicle as well as the driver. At least up here it is.

Click to expand...

I agree you would still want insurance to protect your investment should a tree fall on your car or should it be stolen.

On the liability end of it I was toying with the thought that if the system wall perfect and fully autonomous then people would only be passengers sitting in a vehicle.
If no license required then in theory a six year old or a blind man could sit in to get from one place to the next.

Kind of a catch 22, the requirement to have liability insurance on this perfect vehicle would be acknowledging that it was not perfect.

Biggest problem I see with fully automated cars is: if the vehicle has to follow buried cables or transponders in the roadway, are they going to put those cables and transponders in everyones driveway, barnyard, pathway, etc. , if not, people living a ways off the highway may have a real long walk to get home or to use their car to go someplace. Also, what if you want or need to drive "OFF HIGHWAY" ? -- They'll never be practical in my opinion.

Get a LMC truck catalog. Fix that stuff right up. I just bought a 93? F250. Older vehicles are affordable. Fixable and you can?t beat their styles. I hate the look of the new Ford trucks.

Commercial airliners have had autopilots for decades. They are a very useful *tool* but no replacement for judgement, experience and thinking. For the autopilot to be available for use, all the "eyes" and "ears" have to be functioning properly otherwise one of the two pilots up front will have to some actual work! (disclaimer: been there and done that)

I see the same problem with the self driving car thing: all the sensors will have to be functioning properly for the self driving function to be usable. So what happens when one is not? I don't know. I haven't heard anything about them having backup sensors in case a primary sensor malfunctions. If they build one with no steering wheel or pedals then I guess it's just dead in the water. In a surface vehicle you are just a few feet and seconds from disaster.

It costs a lot of money and takes a lot of manpower to keep an airliner in front line condition. I don't see how SDC will be any different and they're finding out now how much it will be. The cars still can't handle inclement weather and it will interesting to see how long the sensors last when they get doused with road salt.

I agree, the self-driving cars should be stopped right now. It's a bad idea that isn't going to get any better. It was a bad enough idea to put any electronics in cars. The self-driving cars is going too far. I have an old car that nobody can fix because of the electronics. No telling how many mechanics have worked on it and even two dealerships has tried.

They are already here. Go test drive a new loaded, car. They won't run over anybody, on either end. Active cruise control. They will stay in their own lane,if it has painted lanes.when you get tired of it shaking your seat and steering wheel. Just hit the button on end of turn signal arm and turn it off. It will parallel park itself. And back a trailer! About GPS poster above says its up to 100 ft off. You can pay for sub inch signal. Our Ford Explorer will do most of this and it is 3 yrs old. You guys see those straight passes in the fields you drive by. But like poster above says. Even though you have autopilot, still have to pay attention!

self driving cars are coming online to cater to the wacky-tabacky drivers coming up in your state soon

(quoted from post at 06:47:17 11/10/18) Did not want to hijack the thread below on junkyards ? I have not visited a junkyard in serval years so I don?t know what they?re like around my area now (western PA). I know a lot of people like myself who can tinker on their cars to keep them running as the car ages, and their cars don?t run like brand new but they do work and get you where you need to go. For example my 1995 truck, the air conditioning doesn?t work, electric mirrors don?t work, the intermittent wipers don?t work, and my mechanic unhooked some vacuum hoses so it wouldn?t stall at the stop sign. I have to think that with the idea of eventually going to self driving cars, with all the sensors, electronics, computers, and technology that would be in them, the car would have to be in top-notch condition to work properly and avoid accidents. This would prevent people from fixing their own cars or driving a car that is not in perfect condition, which could be unaffordable for a lot. I?m not trying to be skeptical but I don?t see that for self driving cars, unless EVERYONE has one, and they are all in excellent working condition,the idea will not work.

Click to expand...

I don't see what the problem would be. I own the scan tools needed to troubleshoot mt vehicles so if a sensor goes bad, no problem, scan it and replace the bad sensor.

Now the big question is......what did your mechanic unhook? If it's anything to do with pollution control stuff he's most likely illegal. I've got a 1993 pickup with about 190,000 on it. Everything works including the AC. They are not hard to keep up.

I agree that right now for self driving to work you'd have to have everyone in them. I don't see that happening soon but rest assured it's coming like it or not.

Other things people are overlooking.

Self drivers are not going to allow you to speed. In fact they will go slower than the speed limit if traffic or road conditions are less than optimal. Lot of folks ain't gonna like that.

Rick

Some of the 80's and early 90's Ford emission A.I.R. parts are no longer available its not illegal to remove if no longer available.

You can bet If I owned a 90 ford f250 351 V8 when I had to do repairs to the engine all that plumbing is coming off.... Are any Ford of that vintage as far as that goes...

I had one come in a year are so ago I ask her if she wanted all that A.I.R. stuff put back/repaired she said yes. As she was walking out the door she told me to replace are remove at my desecration when she came to pick it up she ask did you remove all that chit I said no I wanted to make life miserable for the next guy that works on it. She said you are the one that's gonna work on it I said NO not me its not coming back in my shop

Her bill was $2000 and I earned every penny of it... What a miserable P.O.S. to work on with all that plumbing...

Self-driving cars might be the most benefit to older people living in small towns and rural areas that are too small or too poor to provide public transportation and are too sparsely populated to support private taxis or buses.

I suspect we will see self-driving trucks and trains of trucks driven by a single lead driver within the near future. The percentage of trucks that are self-driving will increase much faster than the percentage cars that are of self-driving.