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Ford 2N vs Minneapolis-Moline 335 advice?

R

remocut

New User
Hello,
I'm a newbie and a newbie to tractors as well. Based in CT. Want to get to a vintage tractor that I can use as front loader (rock boulders, plant material, etc) and possibly also for log skidding or for attaching a light to medium duty trailer to. There's two listings nearby, one is for a "1960's [sic] Ford 2N" and the other is a "1950's Minneapolis-Moline" with no info on model but it looks like a 335. Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here but is one better than the other in terms of running it, modifying it, finding parts for it if it breaks, servicing it, etc? I need to point out that where I live it's incredibly rare to see a farm tractor. Upstate is more common.
 
No 1960 2Ns. 1042 to 1947. So the owner is not savvy. The Moline is far more tractor and has very desirable features, Like a 5 speed trans (compared to 3 in
the ford) and independent PTO. Go moline. UJim
 
Sounds like you have big plans on working WORKING!! an old vintage tractor, really hard. If I were you, I would not do that. I'd look for a classy old tractor to paint up, for the Christmas parades, but I'd get a much more modern tractor if to really WORK IT!!
 
Not familiar with the MM model but it sounds like an apples to oranges comparison.

The N series Fords were designed in the mid 1930s, and the 2N was made between 1942 and 1947.

Parts for N series Fords are available everywhere while parts are available for MMs just about no where.

Dean
 
what's your budget?

like others have said. the Minie-Moe will be hard to get parts for. the 2N is older.. and very easy to get parts for.. but is old and primitive relatively speaking.

the 2N won't handle much "logging" work and could be dangerous even. won't handle much in a loader either and would need an add-on hydraulic pump. no live PTO or 3pt hitch. but for $1000-1500ish the 2N is the lowest price thing out there. I will say i've been amazed about what i could do with a 9N Ford (same as 2N) as light and primitive and low powered as it was. upgraded to a Case 800 which is far heavier and more powerfull and lots of features..(for sale too).

if you have a bit of $ to spend I'd look at a Ford 3000/4000/5000. Case 430/470 and 530/570's would be about the same size. more parts and newer and good tractors. maybe a little less $. an industrial version of the Cases would have a heavy duty loader frame possible too. other options Oliver super 55's and 550's. maybe a late model Allis-Chalmers D17 or 170..

if you have more questions or options ask here. you'll get lots of feedback... maybe too much ..

good luck.
 
The MM would suit your needs better, if for no other reason than having power steering.

But, finding something that old that is work ready... Doesn't happen very often.

Unless you come across something at an estate sale that was someones baby, then chances are it will need a lot of work to make it reliable.

Like others said, find something newer, with a loader already on it.
 
Between those two choices, the MM is a lot more tractor with more features. Parts are NOT hard to find for the MM, or the Ford either, but you do need to know where to look for them.

I like my old MMs, but for what you are wanting, I would look for something a little bigger and newer than either of those you mentioned.
 
(quoted from post at 11:00:28 04/29/19) MM parts are available. Welter's
farm supply in MO has em......
Click to expand...

Yea i d Stay away from a tractor that I have to order parts from some obscure place in MO...... then wait 3 weeks. What a joke.

A ford N was never a good loader tractor. Plus from what the op listed for potential missions a little small/little.

1 find out what brands have dealer support in the area. A CaseIH dealer is will support Ford, Farmall/IH. AGCO/Massey Ferguson should support AC and MF.

2 talk to locals about the dealers



Rick
 
The Moline will be near double the
horsepower of the Ford. Will have 5
speed transmission plus the hi/low
ampli-torque (10 gears). Live power,
live hydraulics and ohv engine. The
original 165 engine can be swapped
out to a 206 or 220. Many new and
aftermarket parts are available for
moline tractors as well as salvage.
Just have to know where to look. I
also think you may be ahead to go a
bit newer and already with the
loader. Choosing between the 2
mentioned I suggest moline.
 
I have scrapped over 3000 n fords in the past 30+ years. Why, because people get tired of spending
hundreds of dollars on them keeping them running. I started running them in 1961. You could not give me
one to operate. They are the worst thing ever developed to put a loader on. Around here at auctions
they bring $500.00 at most, if they start and stop. In 1961 or 62 a ford tractor mechanic told me "Henry
Ford designed the brakes on a N ford to be a little better than those on a covered wagon". At best that
is all they are. Its a no brainier. The Minnie or wait until something else comes up. A 2000 or 3000
ford would suit you far better than the 2 you have mentioned.
 
(quoted from post at 18:26:50 04/29/19) The Moline will be near double the
horsepower of the Ford. Will have 5
speed transmission plus the hi/low
ampli-torque (10 gears). Live power,
live hydraulics and ohv engine. The
original 165 engine can be swapped
out to a 206 or 220. Many new and
aftermarket parts are available for
moline tractors as well as salvage.
Just have to know where to look. I
also think you may be ahead to go a
bit newer and already with the
loader. Choosing between the 2
mentioned I suggest moline.
Click to expand...

Salvage parts? If you know where to look? Come on. I understand that people like different tractors but there is an honesty point someplace. Importunity "lot of aftermarket parts" is more than a starter, generator, voltage regulator, carb kit or tune up parts. How about engine kits, hydraulic pumps and valves and transmission parts? And with a total of 3,584 335's built there are not enough out there to have much in the way of aftermarket parts unless they sky high in price. And unless they already scrapped out most of them at yards that didn't crush them cause the parts were not selling there can't really be much in the way of mechanical parts out there. Just simple business economics tell you that. Most yards would have crushed them long ago cause no one was buying parts.

So really the 2N is just a poor choice and the MM? Well that's a poor choice for a worker. Heck you wouldn't dare run it. Lot of good tractors out there of many brands. But for a new guy? They need something they can get parts and help with locally. Really gotta be color blind inn a case like this.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:17:06 04/29/19)

1 find out what brands have dealer support in the area. A CaseIH dealer is will support Ford, Farmall/IH. AGCO/Massey Ferguson should support AC and MF.

2 talk to locals about the dealers



Rick
Click to expand...

Just for the record AGCO supports MM also.
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:24 04/29/19)
(quoted from post at 15:17:06 04/29/19)

1 find out what brands have dealer support in the area. A CaseIH dealer is will support Ford, Farmall/IH. AGCO/Massey Ferguson should support AC and MF.

2 talk to locals about the dealers



Rick
Click to expand...

Just for the record AGCO supports MM also.
Click to expand...

Bet not very well. Here AGCO is an absolute joke at best.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 20:29:54 04/29/19) I have scrapped over 3000 n fords in the past 30+ years. Why, because people get tired of spending
hundreds of dollars on them keeping them running. I started running them in 1961. You could not give me
one to operate. They are the worst thing ever developed to put a loader on. Around here at auctions
they bring $500.00 at most, if they start and stop. In 1961 or 62 a ford tractor mechanic told me "Henry
Ford designed the brakes on a N ford to be a little better than those on a covered wagon". At best that
is all they are. Its a no brainier. The Minnie or wait until something else comes up. A 2000 or 3000
ford would suit you far better than the 2 you have mentioned.
Click to expand...


Sure you have :lol: :lol: :lol: You do more people a huge favor if you scraped ever AC you could get you hands on.
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:24 04/29/19)
(quoted from post at 15:17:06 04/29/19)

1 find out what brands have dealer support in the area. A CaseIH dealer is will support Ford, Farmall/IH. AGCO/Massey Ferguson should support AC and MF.

2 talk to locals about the dealers



Rick
Click to expand...

OH and that's why I said to check local support. Here AGCO support sucks. Go down by ManKato and I understand it's OK. Like a quick search of CT shows NO Agco support in CT. There is a dealer in VT and 2 north of Philly in PA. That doesn't help someone in CT very much.

Just did a quick lookup on AGCO's site. They don't even list ANY MM products supported that I could find.:lol: ! So much for AGCO support which most likely is filters only if that.

It all comes down to business. It doesn't pay to produce a part and have it sit on shelf. Old tractor lovers are finding that out about that the hard way with just decent points and condensers. No one is selling enough to continue making em much longer. Good VR's are tuff to come by too. Plus the 6 volt battery is not being supported very well either. Lot of new battery chargers don't even have a 6 volt setting. When it isn't profitable they stop supporting some of those old things. Heck even here on YT, look up parts available for a MM 335. Pretty slim pickings. Just not profitable as they don't sell enough. And that's not our hosts. It's the manufacturers. Come on? 1 engine part? The Flywheel hub? 1 seal under gaskets? NO tune up parts except plug wires?

Lot of tractors out there of different colors that still have reasonable support. IH (CaseIH/NH) Ford (CaseIH/NH) Case and some David Brown (CaseIH/NH) JD, MF, White and most AC AGCO (Cat if a Challenger dealer too). MM, Oliver? Support is drying up. They didn't make a ton of either brands and both brands were bought out by White. MM in 1963 and Oliver in 1960. Then white sold out in the 80's to New Idea and in turn was picked off by Massey who was then bought by AGCO. Anyway stuff that had low production numbers had support start dry up quickly after production for a particular model stopped. Are you going to make a part for a tractor that sold 300,000 copies or one that didn't even break 3600? It's bad for collectors as parts are either extremely high, have to be custom made or are not obtainable at all. For users where things are going to wear out or break it's a nightmare.

Rick
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 20:29:54 04/29/19) I have scrapped over 3000 n fords in the past 30+ years. Why, because people get tired of spending
hundreds of dollars on them keeping them running. I started running them in 1961. You could not give me
one to operate. They are the worst thing ever developed to put a loader on. Around here at auctions
they bring $500.00 at most, if they start and stop. In 1961 or 62 a ford tractor mechanic told me "Henry
Ford designed the brakes on a N ford to be a little better than those on a covered wagon". At best that
is all they are. Its a no brainier. The Minnie or wait until something else comes up. A 2000 or 3000
ford would suit you far better than the 2 you have mentioned.
Click to expand...

Oh there tommy boy, just for the record I sold an 8N, in work clothing, so so tires, on Saturday. Was stopped for gas with it on a trailer. Guy at the gas station walked up, ask to hear it run and offered me 1500. Here a Farmall H in nice condition might bring 1000. Fully restored AC WD 45 about 900. Saw a nice D17 gasser with a fully hydraulic loader in good shape and new runner bring a whopping 1700 at auction. So I think you just hate the Fords and are bad mouthing them. And I did say that for the OP the 2N was a bad choice. That 335 isn't any better based on support.

Rick
 
Good point on the parts sitting on the shelf AC,Oliver,MM parts sit on the shelf because they rarely need replacement parts.On the other hand every place around sells the Ford N
parts and they are fast movers because there is always something wrong with those N Fords that needs fixing.Takes a real good N Ford to bring 1K$ in my area the compacts have taken over their market $0 down and easy monthly$ payments.I'll say the N Fords are a good yard and garden tractor but to get any real work done they ain't gonna get it.
 

This might be a good place to ask a related question: About 20-25 years ago, when I owned a Minnie-Mo, there was a company called Modern Machinery that had bought up all the remaining inventory from the plant after it closed down.

As I recall, it was a group of Minnie-Mo owners that formed the business. A google search for that business didn't turn up anything. So the question is: did that business fold?
 
The 335 makes a good cow chaser. You can shift up through the
gears on the fly. Should have seen my brother in law chase those
shorthorns. Not good for much else though.
 
The OP said vintage tractor versus modern tractor so I would go with the MM. Spark plugs, cap, and rotor being Delco can be found locally. Order things such as oil filters ahead of time and keep on shelf. Go through tractor during a slow period and address things such as brakes. If needed then there is time to wait a week or so for a cross country ship of parts. Now if the OP said vintage OR modern then I would espouse the virtues of close service and support of current brands. Or if the OP threw a Ford 3000 or JD 2020 into the equation espouse the better support on either of those tractors.
 
Go look upstate then and forget both on them. I own a 9N and i also own a 2N or it has owned me for 75 years and yes it could be made to do what you want, if you spend years looking for the right things go on it as it probably does not at present have them. Finding a drawbar that would work for pulling the trailer those parts can be found at swap meets easily enough but what you say I dought you are going to find any swap meets to go to. You cannot use a drawbar kit on a 9 or 2N that fits an 8N and even with the proper orignal hitch for the 2N it is not a good item for trailer use. Dad had made one back in the 50's to get something decent to pull with. You can use a loader off the built in hydrolic system but you have to tye the lift arms down and then it would only work with the clutch enguaged along with the power shaft and most loaders to fit them are the jungle jim type that you have to climb up on the back end of tractor to get on. And even to find a good one with all the mounting parts would be a night mare. But the same goes for finding a loader for the MM. What you are wanting to do would require a tilt bucket on the loader and finding a loader for either tractor with that would also be the nightmare. The Ford was a good tractor for what they were designed for and what you are wanting to do they were not designed for. Now if you would find a Ford of 1955 up it would likely do what you are wanting and parts should not be to bad to get. Now the Moline there probly was only a hundreth as many made so very scarce to find any attachments for but were probably good just not sold in my area. Now a bigger 445 was sold around here but still I would look for something that would work a lot better for you. Haven't seen any Moline 445 in anyplace except shows for the last 20 years so if they were that scarce think about finding anybody to work on them or anything to work with them either. As far as a 335 only ever saw possibly 5 at most at shows so you know there are very few of them out there. Any Ferguson from a TO 35 up should work along with any MF tractors, the Fords from 55 up Oliver S55 or 550 but not ploenty of them around either and be sure if you get any tractor it already has the loader mounted and has a good sollid, non swinging drawbar or lift arm drawbar as those with a trailer are deadly. I would not recomend any John Deere as the models that would be good for what you are wanting would be unaffordable, could buy a fairly new tractor for same price. Not many models of IHC that would be a good choise either. Case also not sold around here. You need something that was sold in the area. Otherwise no parts or anybody that knows enough about them to help you with them.
 
(quoted from post at 03:55:42 04/30/19) Good point on the parts sitting on the shelf AC,Oliver,MM parts sit on the shelf because they rarely need replacement parts.On the other hand every place around sells the Ford N
parts and they are fast movers because there is always something wrong with those N Fords that needs fixing.Takes a real good N Ford to bring 1K$ in my area the compacts have taken over their market $0 down and easy monthly$ payments.I'll say the N Fords are a good yard and garden tractor but to get any real work done they ain't gonna get it.
Click to expand...


:lol: :lol: Right. I've owned AC. Wasn't any better or worse for parts used that comparably sized and year other brands. Seems odd to me that AC managed to make and sell 123,519 C and CA tractors over 18 years. Ford sold 524,000 8N's in 5 years. So considering the sheer numbers out there which one as a business man are you going to make parts for? That's right. The one still actually being worked even if only as a garden tractor. Heck the only thing I see a C or CA being used for today is a lawn mower or sitting in a row of other tractors at a show where people are going A C, another C, another C......so sitting of course they don't require as many parts.

Here a AC C is a 500 buck tractor. That's all fixed up with new paint and new tires. The only thing it's good for is mowing grass or parades. Try finding new implements for that AC C? Oh, other than a trailer or wagon no one makes any! So take that C AC at 500, add 580 for a 3 point conversion (only if you have a C with hydraulics). According to what I find you better hurry. After what's in stock is gone that's it, they ain't making no more (it's that business model you know, if it ain't selling you don't produce it). And you still don't have draft control. Other than that you can try to find AC implements made to fit those but those are few and far between anymore and wear parts are hard to find. But there are several companies making cat 1 3 point implements.

Heck I get 1500 for a Ford N in work clothing, so so rubber without trying to sell and an AC gas, nice runner, Dual loader, new rubber gets 1700?

Look, I did not say that the MM or AC was a bad tractor. I said they are a bad tractor for anyone who want's to do serious work with one. And then the problem is in today's parts support, not with the original design. A tractor that's more prone to break down but has great parts support is better than a tractor that's better made but when it breaks that's it, off the the crusher you go. But the nonsense that a tractor used for work isn't going to break because of the brand? That's just silly. Heck if that were true i guess we'd all own nothing but JD according to the JD guys!

Rick
 
Way too much paranoia concerning the MM here. I knew a guy that had one that also was a Ford man and he preferred the MM to the Fords that predate the 1965 1000
series tractors. If you are concerned about evaluating a tractor then find somebody who can go with you to assist you. Determine how much mechanical work you want to
do to get an older tractor in top running order. Tractors are not cheap in terms of major repairs so factor that in. Know the true cost of owning a given tractor versus an
overly optimistic scenario "where it should run a while before rebuilding." The 2N for what you want to do will only bring disappointment. If you have gotten this far you most
likely are aware that you have other choices in terms of newer tractors. Is it of the utmost importance to only have to drive an hour to put parts in your hand that same day or
can you live with waiting for something to be shipped to you?
 
(quoted from post at 13:28:14 04/29/19) Sounds like you have big plans on working WORKING!! an old vintage tractor, really hard. If I were you, I would not do that. I'd look for a classy old tractor to paint up, for the Christmas parades, but I'd get a much more modern tractor if to really WORK IT!!
Click to expand...

Hi all, great, great advice from everyone, thank you! I'm a sucker for vintage machinery - have a 1948 Delta Bandsaw and a 1960s 8" Toolkraft Drill Press. Both need some TLC yet and it's probably not a good idea to take on another PROJECT :lol: But for both of those there's suppliers for parts and also even just modern replacements that can fit on those old machines (like bandsaw wheels & belts). I can even order stuff from Amazon. And the reason for getting them is because they're really good workhorses versus the lightweight stuff from China these days. But I suppose I don't have the capabilities to work on a 3000+ lb machine that as others have said are actually underpowered compared to what's out there today.

what's your budget?

like others have said. the Minie-Moe will be hard to get parts for. the 2N is older.. and very easy to get parts for.. but is old and primitive relatively speaking.

the 2N won't handle much "logging" work and could be dangerous even. won't handle much in a loader either and would need an add-on hydraulic pump. no live PTO or 3pt hitch. but for $1000-1500ish the 2N is the lowest price thing out there. I will say i've been amazed about what i could do with a 9N Ford (same as 2N) as light and primitive and low powered as it was. upgraded to a Case 800 which is far heavier and more powerfull and lots of features..(for sale too).
Click to expand...

The 2N and Moline are $2300 and $2000 respectively. 2N actually has a snowplow, bucket loader & tire chains. Moline was being used as "indoor forklift" but I don't see hydraulics in the ad. Not really after a real logging machine but when I finally get my arborist certification I want to have capability for taking down small trees. My budget ... welll.... I'm also a sucker for bargains but not a sucker for expensive replacement parts or for having a dangerous machine if there's something safer for some more money. So I can afford $5k used and maybe up to $14k down the line for a brand new sub-compact tractor.

buy a skid loader
Click to expand...

I wish I had the money for a skid steer :D Around here can't them used for less than 15-20k. I saw once 8k but it was really beat up.

So I'll steer clear of these two oldies and look for something from at least the 70's or 80's then. :)
 
And now for something completely different.

The 2N is the pre-cursor to my 8N. I do all the things you want to do, and more with my 8N. It is not always easy, and not always the best/fast way, but it gets done.

I have a Wagner loader and a very good front mount hyd unit. I spent > $1000 making work right. I keep a lot of air in the front tires, and don't turn the wheel unless moving fwd or back. My 3pt works perfect, and will lift the 6' brush hog no problem. I built my own deck-plate that mounts under the PTO to tow a hay tractor. I've augered big, deep holes with it, and put up very tall trusses for a plane hangar. I've bladed fairly soft road, used a landscape rake to smooth it, and produced a decent 1/4 mile driveway. I brush-hogged 2ac with my unit, and the first pass was touch-and-go, even with the deck almost a foot off the ground. Second pass, was iffy as well, but by gosh, the brush got itself hogged, with two passes, and a fair amount of gas.

Honestly, the early Ford tractor are a bargain if it has decent back tires and the engine runs right with decent clutch material. If the 2N is what you like, and is in your price range, you can't get a whole lot more vintage without going to a Farmall 20 unstyled.

However, and it is a big however, these tractors are[u:9470f5239a] not being maintained right. Most of them for sale are minutes away from being scrap iron.[/u:9470f5239a] You MUST get one that has been cared for. If the brakes are dry and adjusted right, they will barely stop the tractor on a slight grade. If they are wet, or adjusted wrong, they are almost useless. If the engine, carb, valves, ign are not setup right, it will have poor power, and be nearly useless.

I'm saying, if you decide on the 2N, make SURE it was cared for. If not, and you want to tinker, you will spend 2 months on and off, and $1500-2500 to fix all the goof ups left by the prev jerkwad.

The Wagner loader can be added, and I hop on and off from the left side. I even have a beer holder welded on. Put a big, heavy load on the 3pt, and some bricks at the end, and watch it lift smooth, and stay up. You can counter-balance somewhat the weight of the loader with a heavy tool on the 3pt, but of course, that increases your total laden weight as well. Sometimes that's good for traction, sometimes it's hard on the clutch.

For everyone who chooses to disagree, YMMV, objects in mirror are closer than appear, contents have settled, and this is my story, and I'm sticking to it.
 
There is a tradeoff in buying an older tractor at a lower price versus buying a late JD, NH, or Kubota compact tractor. If the late model tractors were selling at MM-2N
prices then nobody would be looking at 60 plus year old tractors to work with. There is a risk in walking out the door in the morning. If you can not bear to face that then
things such as buying anything other than a new tractor with warranty is not for you. A good 335 with loader should be about a 3,000 dollar tractor. I doubt you can buy a
35 year old JD 850 (Yanmar) w/o loader and MFWD that ran good for that. The OP also has to realize that asking a bunch of guys on the internet is not the same as asking a
guy who can see the OP's conditions. If the OP is logging in a swamp then he is going to want differential lock and MFWD which will bring up a different recommendation for
a tractor.
 

LOTS of misinformation concerning MM parts and availability in this thread. It's not hard to find parts at all. I have 9 MM tractors ranging in age from 1949 to 1969. Parts are rarely needed, but easily available when the need arises.

The fellow who called the Welters dealership "some obscure place in Mo who makes you wait three weeks to get parts" has OBVIOUSLY never dealt with Welters. Every time I have ordered parts from them, they have shipped overnight, without asking for payment up front, and accept a personal check by mail as payment upon your receipt of the parts.

The people who say that AGCO doesn't even list MM parts are dead wrong. They are listed under the White tractor category, since White owned MM (and Oliver, and Cockshutt) at the end. I have gotten several MM parts from AGCO, including new replacement steering parts for my M670. Don't believe the haters.
 
Agreed with most of your statement but have to admit places like TSC have made parts for older Fords pretty easy in comparison to get.
 
If you can afford 5-6 thousand dollars then I would be looking for a JD 2020 or Ford 5000 tractor. With a loader they won't be mint condition in that price range but then
again part of the fun is painting the unit yourself to make it look like new.
 
Lots of posts on this thread about hard to get parts. My question is do you all go through lots of parts?

My experience is that in the ~30 years I've owned my Oliver (DB in drag), I've needed a water pump, fuel transfer pump, and a few gaskets. Of those, only the water pump is a unique item, the gaskets could be made and the fuel pump is an AC that was used on lots of engines, tractor and other applications. Parts for the tractor are less a concern than for many other things I have around the place.
 
Yes there are loaders you can mount like that but most what you would find for sale are not that style. And the brakes can be good. My 44 2N they always have been just soso but the 41 9N with same breaks you touch the pedal and you slide the wheel so there are some out there with good brakes, just have to find the right one. And the 8N you can put the good under belly mount swinging drawbar that is safe to pull a trailer on but they will not mount on a 9 or 2N. But to know you are going to have a loader that works you need to find it already mounted on the tractor.
 
(quoted from post at 07:42:31 04/30/19)
(quoted from post at 13:28:14 04/29/19) Sounds like you have big plans on working WORKING!! an old vintage tractor, really hard. If I were you, I would not do that. I'd look for a classy old tractor to paint up, for the Christmas parades, but I'd get a much more modern tractor if to really WORK IT!!
Click to expand...

Hi all, great, great advice from everyone, thank you! I'm a sucker for vintage machinery - have a 1948 Delta Bandsaw and a 1960s 8" Toolkraft Drill Press. Both need some TLC yet and it's probably not a good idea to take on another PROJECT :lol: But for both of those there's suppliers for parts and also even just modern replacements that can fit on those old machines (like bandsaw wheels & belts). I can even order stuff from Amazon. And the reason for getting them is because they're really good workhorses versus the lightweight stuff from China these days. But I suppose I don't have the capabilities to work on a 3000+ lb machine that as others have said are actually underpowered compared to what's out there today.

what's your budget?

like others have said. the Minie-Moe will be hard to get parts for. the 2N is older.. and very easy to get parts for.. but is old and primitive relatively speaking.

the 2N won't handle much "logging" work and could be dangerous even. won't handle much in a loader either and would need an add-on hydraulic pump. no live PTO or 3pt hitch. but for $1000-1500ish the 2N is the lowest price thing out there. I will say i've been amazed about what i could do with a 9N Ford (same as 2N) as light and primitive and low powered as it was. upgraded to a Case 800 which is far heavier and more powerfull and lots of features..(for sale too).
Click to expand...

The 2N and Moline are $2300 and $2000 respectively. 2N actually has a snowplow, bucket loader & tire chains. Moline was being used as "indoor forklift" but I don't see hydraulics in the ad. Not really after a real logging machine but when I finally get my arborist certification I want to have capability for taking down small trees. My budget ... welll.... I'm also a sucker for bargains but not a sucker for expensive replacement parts or for having a dangerous machine if there's something safer for some more money. So I can afford $5k used and maybe up to $14k down the line for a brand new sub-compact tractor.

buy a skid loader
Click to expand...

I wish I had the money for a skid steer :D Around here can't them used for less than 15-20k. I saw once 8k but it was really beat up.

So I'll steer clear of these two oldies and look for something from at least the 70's or 80's then. :)
Click to expand...

That's my recommendation. I just searched my 3 go to places that I trust for old tractor looking for 335 MM parts. Found one reman crank shaft, some bearing inserts and used heads. No other internal engine parts like rods, pistons or even rings. Doesn't mean they are not available, just not readily available.

Now as far as what you are looking for there are lot of options out there. Both the hundred and thousand series Fords, would only look at power steering models if you want a loader (that's all of them) the hundred series Massey's are also a good tractor like the 135 (AGCO for dealer support). You should be able to stay in the 3-6K range on any of those. Local dealer support for both repairs and parts is a very good thing. Some of the later IH utilities are good too. But ones like the 300 and 350 utility are starting to have lack in parts support too. Mostly stuff like steering. I just bought an 860 Ford for 1250. I lucked out on that. But there are other options. Try looking at tractorhouse. Keep in mind that often the pricing is high. Also a 500 or so mile drive can save thousands. So don't be afraid of a little road trip.

Rick
 
I agree if I had a tractor that I had to be as worried about finding parts for as some here I'd be done sold that tractor or put it in the parts row,should be a good parts seller if that many people are looking for that many parts(LOL)Now like my Allis Chalmers CA bought it out of an estate here about 20 years ago only parts I've needed has been some oil filters.
 
(quoted from post at 11:18:42 04/30/19) I agree if I had a tractor that I had to be as worried about finding parts for as some here I'd be done sold that tractor or put it in the parts row,should be a good parts seller if that many people are looking for that many parts(LOL)Now like my Allis Chalmers CA bought it out of an estate here about 20 years ago only parts I've needed has been some oil filters.
Click to expand...

Must not use it much. My dad had a CA. He stayed on top of maintenance pretty good. But there was always something little. I will grant he used it pretty hard. But I ran for years with an 8N Ford. On average I plowed 10 acres a year (one year about 30 total) a did a lot more work with them too, mowed, brush hogged, post holes, rear blade the drive. Averaged 100 hour a summer on each. One had a weak engine that I rebuilt. But as far as repairs? Rear wheel seals and brakes on both. That's it. Over 6 or 7 years. Upgraded both to EI and 12 volt too cause I wanted to. Did the one when I rebuilt the engine. What made parts so available for the Ford N's was sheer production numbers. AC made less than 40,000 CA's (guess no one wanted them?????) while Ford made nearly 1,000,000 N's from the 9N to the NAA. 524,000 8N's alone.

So figuring you have the ability to figure things out. If you were going to make parts for old tractors and knowing that you are going to reduce cost through mass production (limited runs cost money) are you going to build parts for 524,000 tractors or are you going to build parts for 39,499? Where or where is the market at? Called Business 101. Are you even going to think about parts for a tractor that produced less than 4,000?

And no, making a run then warehousing isn't the answer either as they pay property taxes on warehouse space plus have to maintain those parts on an inventory system and annual inventories.

It's one of the reasons that good quality electrical parts like voltage regulators are so hard to find. Hear about guys buying anew one only to find out it's defective right out of the box. And going back 4, 5 or even 6 times to get a good one. Well they sell so few anymore that the only cost effective way to market them is to get them from China. Figure it out. There is what? Maybe a couple of million charging systems out there at best that use the same voltage regulator? With maybe a couple of thousand getting replaced each year? At best? Same thing with points. How many guys on here brag about make points last 10 years? Then cry like babies when they pay 20 bucks for a new set that burns up in just a couple of hours? Cause they are made by the cheapest bidder in China.

Rick
 
Bring your 8N on over you'll blow it up trying to keep up with me on the CA brush hogging.As far as numbers produced cheap always outsells quality same these days as always.N Fords
were cheap so they sold a lot of them,just like Harbor Freight does now with tools and like you pointed out about the ignition parts.
 
8Ns were cheap(as were 2N, and 9N) mostly for the same reason model T was so cheap. Ford set up a production line, and turned them out by the thousands every week. Economy of scale is real.

Not a lot of things on a farm/ranch last +60 years. Plenty of Ford Ns out there still doing light labor.
 
(quoted from post at 13:35:57 04/30/19) Bring your 8N on over you'll blow it up trying to keep up with me on the CA brush hogging.As far as numbers produced cheap always outsells quality same these days as always.N Fords
were cheap so they sold a lot of them,just like Harbor Freight does now with tools and like you pointed out about the ignition parts.
Click to expand...

OK up to this point I have called a tractor junk in this thread. All I did was point out dealer support or lack thereof, and sales numbers that affects parts availability today. You have continually claimed that certain tractors are junk.

LOL AC was considered cheap in the day. Like Case, Oliver, MM and others they just didn't measure up to the leaders, IH/Farmall and JD.

And let compare apples to apples. The CA was produced from 50 to 58? So any Ford between 50 and 58? Wouldn't that be fair? :lol: :lol: Somehow I knew you would say no.

So lets be real here. The AC was considered cheap too when compared to Farmall and and JD. Heck in 1950 when the CA came out the H had been in production for over 10 years and was nearing the end if it's production run. Always been considered a way better tractor than the AC C or CA. Close to the same. IH sold 391,227 in it's production run of 14 years. The AC C and CA had a total production run of 17 years and could sell LESS 1/2 as many because twice as many wanted quality over AC jump out of gear junk. Really 17 years between the C ans CA to make 123,519 gear jumpers??? You keep saying how cheap Ford was well I've never seen a Ford or and IH that was a gear jumper. Seen lots of AC's that were gear jumpers. From a C clear up to 190XT's. Yet you go on about quality? Then they come up with the Snap Coupler system? A system that if it fail would plant a plow in a farmers back? Because it relied on guys getting rid of horses understanding the care and maintenance of that system? And yea, lot of guys farmed right up to the early 50's with horses. First IPTO came out in the late 40's yet AC was too cheap to go to that until the mid 70's? Yep you stick to your better quality notions........numbers, demand and used markets over most of the country makes you wrong. :lol: :lol:

Rick
 
The seat setup killed a lot of AC sales. I have driven an AC CA and cam barly get up on the thing and once on I have a terable time to get off and if I was on it for an hour I would no longer be able to walk. Now the Fords and I have a 9N, and 2N and had a NAA and a Ferguson TO-30 and no problem getting on them or driving all day. And then that snap coupler hitch did not help them any. Good mechanical just a poor design that they could have rectified if they had wanted to.
 
I have driven a John Deere 2020 way too many hours, would not buy one. And the Ford 4000 (4100) 38" rear wheel model 3 cylinder is a lot better tractor than the 5000, I had both of the Fords.
 
Plenty of good 2020's in the orchards to the north and west of me. Used to be some good JD dealers around those parts back in the day.
 
I think you're suffering from AC Tractor Envy having to use that old N while everyone else had real tractors scarred you in your youth.And if you really want to talk about Top of the
Line tractors in the 1950's it was OLIVER hands down.
 

While those are you two current choices. Is there anything else that could be considered ?
There are 60 s and even 70 s eara tractors for only a few bucks more.
Unless the tractor has a real drawbar, a real three point hitch, a live PTO , a SCV and live hydraulics . Walk away .
 
(quoted from post at 17:26:12 04/30/19) I think you're suffering from AC Tractor Envy having to use that old N while everyone else had real tractors scarred you in your youth.And if you really want to talk about Top of the
Line tractors in the 1950's it was OLIVER hands down.
Click to expand...

Naw. I've owned an AC. And after dad's CA and the one I had? The only orange tractor I'd have would say Kubota on it. Don't want anything to do with those gear jumpers.

OK where is the evidence to prove that? What Oliver was the alleged best according to you but got bought out in 1960? Cause they were so good? :lol: :lol: :lol: That kinda BS belongs in the field where it will do some good! Cause all it does here is stink. Companies don't sell out at the top of their game. They don't do it now and they didn't back then. Heck if they were so good how come with the Farmall/IH 560 recall scandal before the new generation for JD came out how come in 1959 Oliver didn't become the leader of the pack? AC didn't either. Your claims make about as much sense as screen hatches on a submarine. Heck from what a quick search produces Oliver in the 50's didn't produce more than 100,000 or so tractors. So of the millions of tractors sold all the rest of the tractors buyers were stupid? Or were they too smart to buy a lesser machine? You know, those other 20 plus million other buyers? You are going to have to prove to me with "take it to the bank" evidence that all those other guys were stupid.

Look, I didn't say that Oliver was a bad tractor. Just that they didn't sell well and was bought out in 1960. You can draw you own conclusions. AC had some issues the most note worthy was gear jumping. What I can't figure is that problem ran for 35 years of production and model changes. Care to explain that? You've still failed to specifically say what was bad on the Fords only claiming that they were junk. I specifically told you of a major problem AC has for 35 YEARS. So what was bad on the Fords? Don't say the brakes. While they were not the best if seals were renewed when they went bad and new shoes installed they would work just fine. On both of my 8Ns once I replaced both seals and brakes I could pivot both around on the inside tire with the brake on that side applied.

Rick

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 21:26:09 04/30/19)
While those are you two current choices. Is there anything else that could be considered ?
There are 60 s and even 70 s eara tractors for only a few bucks more.
Unless the tractor has a real drawbar, a real three point hitch, a live PTO , a SCV and live hydraulics . Walk away .
Click to expand...

There's a Kubota B6100 with a front end loader upstate for $5.5K. It's at one of those dealers people here have alluded to which is probably a lot better than trying to buy something from an owner who (who knows) didn't take care of their machine. Good advice there so I'll have to travel up there soonish and check them out.

I haven't seen any ads locally for any of the other machines people listed in this thread but I've only been looking for a couple of months when I've had the time. There was a Case at one point and an Alice Chalmers at another but I don't remember the model number.

I could increase my budget and save up for a brand new machine or several year old machine. I was thinking about that earlier when I was digging up topsoil in my yard after work with a shovel... I thought to myself wouldn't this be great if I had a mini-backhoe and not just a bucket loader. There's something to be said for getting a recent model with access to a wide array of attachments versus trying to jerry-rig something to an older machine. Anyway, I'm still young and healthy as they say so I'll use a shovel and wheelbarrow until something better comes my way. Great exercise too. :)

By the way, I can't find right now who wrote this, but what (kind of) tractors are better than others in terms of differential lock or getting traction on wet or clay soils? Or is it basically anything after a certain year? We've got rocky soil in CT but also lots of land near or on filled-in former wetlands (which I've walked on once recently-- very disconcerting!).
 
(quoted from post at 17:26:12 04/30/19) I think you're suffering from AC Tractor Envy having to use that old N while everyone else had real tractors scarred you in your youth.And if you really want to talk about Top of the
Line tractors in the 1950's it was OLIVER hands down.
Click to expand...

Oh and before you go to far with it the first diesel farm tractor was Cat. They were also the first to produce an AG tractor with a turbo. Sorry IH and AC fans. I said AG tractor. Not wheeled AG tractor :lol: :lol: .

I love history!

Rick
 
Hmmm, we've got from a guy wanting a vintage tractor from the 40s-60s, to saving up for a new Korean made mini-tractor.

Well, that's why forums exist I guess.

I've said my piece. I was given the 8N, and if I were to go buy something I would get a Ford 3000 series with a loader on it already. Maybe even spring for a diesel engine.

Oh well

https://utica.craigslist.org/grd/d/new-berlin-ford-3000-with-loader-for/6862688073.html
 
(quoted from post at 20:59:46 04/30/19) Hmmm, we've got from a guy wanting a vintage tractor from the 40s-60s, to saving up for a new Korean made mini-tractor.

Well, that's why forums exist I guess.

I've said my piece. I was given the 8N, and if I were to go buy something I would get a Ford 3000 series with a loader on it already. Maybe even spring for a diesel engine.

Oh well

https://utica.craigslist.org/grd/d/new-berlin-ford-3000-with-loader-for/6862688073.html
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree. Just couldn't figure out why someone would praise a tractor that was so good it only sold less than 4 thousand units all the while knocking a tractor that was almost 20 years older that sold 99,000 while the Great Depression was still on. Yea, for what the OP was looking at either tractor he listed IMO would be a poor choice for different reasons.

And yes a Ford 3000 would be a good fit. So would a Massey Ferguson 135, later IH 4XX or 5XX series and several JD's.

Rick
 
Well sort of like this there are probably 100 Idiots in the world for every 1 Genius,quality and the number of something that was produced have almost no correlation.Cheap and poorly built has always outsold quality that comes with a higher price.
 
One big thing for low sales was the dealer network or lack of it. One Oliver Dealer to 10 Deere dealers and then that Oliver dealer closed so no place for the person that would want an Oliver to buy it. Not quite as many IHC dealers as Deere but still way more than Oliver. Even Coop-Cockshut had more dealers than Oliver. Mismanagement of top brass at company is why they ended up selling out, not because of quality of product. Top managers just did not care, they got their money either way.
 
Differential lock did not come into existance untill the 60's and only a new model was developed. Some work just a bit different than others in operation but all are designed to do same work and that is to get you throu a wet spot. A Deere if it gets turned on even on a strait paved road stays on untill you hit a brake to turn it off. Now on a Ford you cannot get that differential to lock on that straight paved road, the unit has to be able to feel a difference in tire rotation before it can be enguaged. I did not know about the differential lock and had borrowed my uncles tractor and forage harvestor and somehow I got that differential locked and went over a mile down the road going straight and when I went to turn into my drive the front wheels turned but kept sliding ina straight line before I hit the brake and then got stoped. After I backed up because I had gone beyond my drive then I could turn to get into my drive. Now the 3 Fords I had with the differential lock would not let it get enguaged on that paved road. So that is some of the differences in how they work.
 
(quoted from post at 03:33:13 05/01/19) Well sort of like this there are probably 100 Idiots in the world for every 1 Genius,quality and the number of something that was produced have almost no correlation.Cheap and poorly built has always outsold quality that comes with a higher price.
Click to expand...

Prove it! Irrefutable evidence that would stand up in court only! That way all the guys who got messed over can go back and sue!

Rick
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
(quoted from post at 03:33:13 05/01/19) Well sort of like this there are probably 100 Idiots in the world for every 1 Genius,quality and the number of something that was produced have almost no correlation.Cheap and poorly built has always outsold quality that comes with a higher price.
Click to expand...


ROFL!!!! If that statement was true then every 99 farmers would have bought Belarus when they first started selling in the us and the YUGO would have become the number one selling car in the US in 1985. And what happened was 999,999 out of a million were to smart to fall for that line of BS and refused to buy that cheap junk. Kinda like what happened to AC. Most farmers were too smart to fall for that line of BS and bought IH and JD. It was only the poorer farmers in most areas that opted for the far cheaper AC's over better tractors. AC=Always Cheaper!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 23:59:46 04/30/19) Hmmm, we've got from a guy wanting a vintage tractor from the 40s-60s, to saving up for a new Korean made mini-tractor.

Well, that's why forums exist I guess.

I've said my piece. I was given the 8N, and if I were to go buy something I would get a Ford 3000 series with a loader on it already. Maybe even spring for a diesel engine.

Oh well

https://utica.craigslist.org/grd/d/new-berlin-ford-3000-with-loader-for/6862688073.html
Click to expand...

I wasn't exactly encouraged by the, er, bickering war that ensued about parts for tractors from the 40s-60s. And then the my tractor runs better than yours comments. I'm sure they're all great and if I had much more experience as a mechanic I'd feel more comfortable about getting something really vintage. I seemed to have kicked open a hornet's nest and I felt embarrassed. :oops:

I like that Ford 3000. But I have to ask a really dumb question -do those really big rear tires prevent the tractor from maneuvering in rough terrain? Do they also have massive turning radii or can they relatively spin on a dime so to speak? Can I run around with that Ford without churning up my yard? (Wife would take issue) That's why I might prefer a sub-compact from Korea even though sub-compacts are apparently not so good and I need to look at compacts instead. Funny thing is though is that fate will probably decide what tractor I'm going to get, forum or not :lol:
 
The Ford 3000 to me is a maneuverable tractor that's pretty stable. Are there other ones that are better? Maybe. Thing is while they may be better they may not be able to accomplish the same amount of work. Not only are you looking at HP you are looking at weight.

For example the Farmall H VS the Ford 8N VS the AC CA.

H was 24 HP and dry 3875 pounds. Wheel base 88.32 "

8N 23.5 HP 2410 70"

CA 23 2835 82"

Now I'm comparing all 3 with wide front because the Ford was only available in WFE.

Providing that the wheels will turn to the same angle on each tractor the Ford should be more maneuverable without using the steering brakes. My experience is that the AC CA will actually turn tighter. The wheels turn unbelievable tight on the CA. Using the steering brake? All 3 with good brakes will spin around on one tire.

Now which one will pull better? The Farmall H. Weight and the larger rear tires will win the day. Also the H has a longer stroke engine so it makes just a bit more torque.

AS far as stability? The lower the tractor is the lower the center of gravity.

NOw what's churning up the yard? Soil type will make a huge difference. Soft sandy soils almost anything can mark it up. How hard you turn. Weight all will be factors. If the wife insists on a perfectly manicured lawn you may want to look at a wheel barrow and a pair of sneakers. IF she's OK with a couple of scuff marks something on the light side will be better but will limit what you can do. If she's ok with it torn up a bit a D2 Cat is in order :shock: :lol: !

As far as the fight over brands? My big thing is everything eventually is going to need repaired. That means parts. If parts are not available I don't care how much you like it it ain't worth much. The myth that a certain brand doesn't break down is just pure garbage. The MM 335 you mentioned? They made less than 4,000 of them back in the 50's. Who's going to make parts for that today? Our hosts on here sell parts. Go look at what's available for different tractors. It's all based on demand and profit. That old Ford you mentioned has good parts availability but isn't going to fit your needs too well. IF you like vintage then you may be one of the people who needs a more modern compact tractor for around the yard and a vintage tractor as a play toy. Just have to convince the wife that there is no such thing as too many tractors..... :lol: :lol:

I currently own an Famall 1206 and 706. 1 Ford 860 and an 8N (for sale) a JCB 3CIII backhoe and a 1947 Cat D4. I mow my lawn with a Zero Turn!

Also do a little research. The AC guys get mad but AC had issues with gear jumping from about 1940 to 1975. Mostly due to how they were operated but it still happened. What they like to do is pop out of 2nd or 3rd, while going downhill with a loaded wagon or such pushing you. Could be a very dangerous situation. Kinda like the early TA equipped Farmalls. Some would freewheel in TA low going down hill too. With a load pushing? Not good.

Rick
 
Not saying you are wrong about the AC and jumping out of gear. Just that you are the only person that I ever head say it. And were a lot of those AC around me.
 
I wasn't exactly encouraged by the, er, bickering war that ensued about parts for tractors from the 40s-60s. And then the my tractor runs better than yours comments. I'm sure they're all great and if I had much more experience as a mechanic I'd feel more comfortable about getting something really vintage. I seemed to have kicked open a hornet's nest and I felt embarrassed. :oops:

I like that Ford 3000. But I have to ask a really dumb question -do those really big rear tires prevent the tractor from maneuvering in rough terrain? Do they also have massive turning radii or can they relatively spin on a dime so to speak? Can I run around with that Ford without churning up my yard? (Wife would take issue) That's why I might prefer a sub-compact from Korea even though sub-compacts are apparently not so good and I need to look at compacts instead. Funny thing is though is that fate will probably decide what tractor I'm going to get, forum or not :lol:
Click to expand...

Buddy, this is curmudgeon central. Bunch of ole, whiny, 'stay off my lawn' guys with plenty of time and unlimited internet. It's gonna go pear shaped sometimes, and nothing we can do about it.

As for the 3000, it'll turn well enough. But, any medium tractor is going to tear up nice lawn, unless you put turf tires on it. Big rear tires are usually a bonus, as they won't get stuck in the mud easily. That's why they have the rib treat on them. Not made for turf so be advised. If it's dry grass, and firm ground, you'll be ok, but if you go out when it's wet, and you do a lot of tight turning, it's going to mess up the lawn pretty quick.

Farm tractors are not made for grass, that's just the fact of life. Turf tires would set you back $6-800, and even with that, it's still a bit harsh.

https://www.kenjones.com/bkt-tr-387-tractor-tires
 
(quoted from post at 06:12:35 05/02/19) Not saying you are wrong about the AC and jumping out of gear. Just that you are the only person that I ever head say it. And were a lot of those AC around me.
Click to expand...

Everyone I know will tell you to check for gear jumping if you are going to look at AC. Started with the C and was still an issue with the X00 series. If you did what the owners manual said, come to a complete stop before changing gears it was never an issue. However they sold those tractors to old farmers that "knew" how to drive a manual tranny and by god if they could shift up and down in that old truck they could do it on that tractor.

Only tractor I heard about it being an issue on was the AC's.

Rick
 
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