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Wiring Livestock / Equipment Barn

F

farmallboy15

Member
I'm getting ready to rewire my old 1911 post-beam barn. One side will be livestock, the other will be for tractors and equipment. The wiring installed currently has inadequate lights and outlets. Last year I put in a new breaker panel. Looking at the latest NEC, they are requiring PVC conduit and weather tight boxes throughout due to the "corrosive, dusty and wet conditions". What kind of wiring do you guys have or think makes sense in livestock barns?

I personally think the PVC conduit and weather tight boxes are overkill unless they were down close to the ground... I'm thinking of using Armor Clad cable up high and EMT conduit whenever I come down down a post for an outlet. I would keep outlets 5' off the ground. All my lights will be vapor tight LED's.

Some pictures are attached of the current organization efforts on the storage side. This is the third round of purging "stuff" that was left over from the previous owner of 40 years...

TYIA
cvphoto3376.jpg


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You might want to touch base with your insurance company.

When I was doing insurance inspections, insurance companies had rather rigid requirements for wiring in any structure that housed livestock. It does vary from company to company, though, so I doesn't hurt to ask.
 
(quoted from post at 09:37:15 01/27/20) I'm getting ready to rewire my old 1911 post-beam barn. One side will be livestock, the other will be for tractors and equipment. The wiring installed currently has inadequate lights and outlets. Last year I put in a new breaker panel. Looking at the latest NEC, they are requiring PVC conduit and weather tight boxes throughout due to the "corrosive, dusty and wet conditions". What kind of wiring do you guys have or think makes sense in livestock barns?

I personally think the PVC conduit and weather tight boxes are overkill unless they were down close to the ground... I'm thinking of using Armor Clad cable up high and EMT conduit whenever I come down down a post for an outlet. I would keep outlets 5' off the ground. All my lights will be vapor tight LED's.
I dont know what code says but I would use emt and weather tight boxes unless it's by manure. Then PVC. My friends barn burnt down. Of course the blame it on a electrical box. I believe it was something smoldering in his grinder. Checking your insurance is a good idea too.

Some pictures are attached of the current organization efforts on the storage side. This is the third round of purging "stuff" that was left over from the previous owner of 40 years...

TYIA
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto3376.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto3377.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto3378.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto3379.jpg">
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(quoted from post at 13:05:14 01/27/20) You might want to touch base with your insurance company.

When I was doing insurance inspections, insurance companies had rather rigid requirements for wiring in any structure that housed livestock. It does vary from company to company, though, so I doesn't hurt to ask.
Click to expand...

Also - You might want to touch base with your [b:d88aa56c56]local electrical inspector[/b:d88aa56c56].

P.S. Love your old barn!
 
I ll reach out to my insurance company. Running costs for a 30 run with a single outlet on the end, PVC (all weather proof) was about $30, EMT was $28, Armor clad was $18. I ran LOTS of EMT last summer in the shop...
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In Minnesota you need the main box mounted outside on a livestock building.

I would want wiring enclosed in a tube with livestock around. The fumes and salt and condensation really does a number on anything metal over the years, and a lot of mouse and rat and such pressure to expose wires with some nibbling.

Get the grounding right, cattle especially are very sensitive to stray voltage. This is a way bigger topic than can be covered in a farm forum message, but it is so easy to mess this up, and it seems after reading these forums people desire to intentionally mess this up and hurt their animals.... I don?t understand that, but if you care at all, work your way through the proper grounding and separation of neutral and ground wires and all that. Cattle get upset with just a small voltage difference and won?t ear or drink right, something you and I can?t even feel.

Plastic conduit really makes the most sense, do it right you only pay once not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things?

Paul
 
Another trick to keeping things dry, bleed a few inches of compressed air into the system, it will push moisture out.
 
(quoted from post at 10:14:26 01/27/20) I would want ALL wiring to be enclosed, rodents love romex.
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Oof, good point. I was going to give the classic knee jerk old phart reply of "Romex and job boxes are good enough for me" until you reminded me of that...

Don't rodents like PVC too?
 
I love your old barn but could not stand the dirt floor. I have a mixer and haul 60/40 in the grain truck off season. In one year I poured enough small slabs to cover almost half my barn floor. Everything on that side stays nice and clean and the woodchucks stay on the other side.
 
I'll probably end up with the PVC conduit after all. When I put in the new breaker box, that included a new 4 wire feed underground from the shop (60amp with headroom for 90amps in PVC). The barn has its' own grounding rods and separated neutral and ground bars as well. While the trench was open I threw in another piece of conduit to pull in internet for cameras.

On the concrete topic, the storage side has some old patches of concrete that are fairly broken up. There seems to be a [i:7720a86622]little [/i:7720a86622]groundhog problem... The rear addition has newer concrete throughout. I'll probably fill in the front part with some gravel. Luckily I shouldn't be wrenching on much in this barn.
 

Ground system and neutral system
Must be isolated or the livestock may suffer from tingle voltage.
The CEC contains a reference to another set of rules for livestock . I assume the NEC also .
 
TEC cable fed into pvc boxes with weather proof connectors would work nice too. Tec cable is armoured cable with a thick soft plastic coating making it good for wet/damp locations and even underground.
 
PVC might be a better choice, especially if you're not familiar with, or have a bender.

It's not hard to learn, just takes some thinking about what you're doing.

If you do go with EMT, I would use raintite connectors. Though they are not really "rain tight" or wash down, they make better, straighter connections.

If you go with PVC, use plenty of straps! If you don't it will soon sag between them.

If you can, the aluminum Bell boxes and covers will be a better (but more expensive) choice for switches and outlets. The PVC boxes tend to get broken.

Above all, play by the rules, whatever rules apply. Not by what sounds good or someone told you!
 
BIL has boat dock in Florida wired using PVC conduit. Uses heat gun to bend PVC. Boxes and switches are in sealed PVC to keep critters out and prevent critters form eating wires.

So is you have a problem with mice eating wires, use conduit.

As for lighting, 5K LED are the difference between day and night.

I put 5 four foot 5000L 5K 14 ft off the ground in pole barn. It's more than needed. Barn is 40 ft long.

You can buy larger LED's that screw into old fixtures for an easy fix.
geo.
 
farmallboy, as most would suspect, being a retired electrical power distribution design engineer, I have to recommend going with PVC and following the NEC even if you're not in a jurisdiction that requires such or even if it bears no relevance.

DOING SO MAY SAVE A LIFE AND/OR PREVENT A FIRE.

LIVESTOCK NOTE: When I last practiced in buildings used to house livestock there were certain specific rules relating to Grounding and Bonding so old bossie wouldn't receive a tingle shock and refuse to use an automatic waterer or feeder. The reason was with the Equipment GroundING Conductor running in parallel with the phase conductors enroute to the barn capacitance and inductance could cause the Ground system to be at a voltage elevated above earth at the barn so livestock standing on earth could receive a shock.

As always where fire and life safety is concerned at least consider consulting the NEC and trained professional electricians and engineers versus lay opinions when making critical decisions.

Be safe don't be sorry, consult professionals

John T
 
David, GREAT QUESTION what you do as I best recall is to bond the incoming equipment grounding conductor (one carried out from panel) to a local mother earth ground at the barn. At the barn you would have driven ground rods or buried foundation structural steel or metal utility pipes as the local mother earth ground. What happens is the equipment grounding conductor out from the main panel being in parallel with the phase conductors acquires a potential higher then mother earth at the barn. When you re bond it to the barns ground it brings it back down to earth there so bossie isn't shocked.

Basically re bond the equipment grounding conductor carried out from the panel to the local ground system.

Make sense??????? Answer your question ????? Any other professional/experienced electricians or electrical engineers add to this ???? I'm rusty on this stuff NO WARRANTY

Ask BuickNDeere hes good on this stuff

John T
 

By keeping the ground system for grounding and the neutral system to carry load current for 120V loads.
This is why the ground and neutral are to be kept totally separate after the initial bond at the service entrance .
Running neutral current on the ground system raises the ground system voltage above true earth potential .
It is difficult enough to keep the ground system at ground potential. Frozen soil, dry soil, dandy soil . Not unusual to be able to apply 120V direct to ground rods and not trip a 15 amp breaker . It does however drive the dew worms up out of the ground .
A service ground connected to a drilled well casing or to ground plates buried 10+ feet deep maybe required.
All barn loads should be 240V where possible . !20 V loads should be balanced so the neutral current back to the transformer is minimal.
As previously stated, PVC conduit or tech cable is the preferred method .
Anyone who things that the ground and the neutral is the same . Do tell us why a line, neutral AND and ground are routed together to wall receptacles etc.
 
I remember an aunt from St Louis brought out an electric ice cream freezer to the farm. Having always had to hand crank it, we all stood around it in amazement watching the thing do it's work, salt water spreading across the concrete floor to the drain. In comes the aunts Cocker Spaniel dog and begins to go crazy as he gets close. Dad finally realized what was happening and pushed the dog onto dry floor with his foot.
 
(quoted from post at 08:04:20 01/28/20) Your 120V outlets need to be GFCI-protected. I would use a GFCI circuit breaker.
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In Ontario the code is now to install AFCI or combo AFCI and GFCI receptacles or breakers on duplex and T-Slot receptacles.
Exception to AFCI is bathrooms, kitchen counters and sump pumps .
Exception to GFCI is dedicated vehicle block heater receptacles, , receptacle above reach for use with Christmas Lights .Sump pumps . Fridges , Washing machines and microwaves If placed infront of the receptacle blocking easy access . And kitchen counter top receptacles if more than 5ft from a sink or drain .
 
(quoted from post at 18:33:15 01/27/20) Im would run pvc as it is easy to work with and I like sealed boxes.
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Drill a 3/32 drain hole in the lowest locations of a box of conduit run. Condensation occurs not matter how sealed a system is.
 
Id run EMT for my main runs, and use MC cable for lights and what not. I would NOT use PVC unless it is in a hog barn....PVC just looks like crap, it waves and bows with temp. changes, and its not easy to make actual bends with, you 'swoop' it, and that looks like hammered dog poo.

MC can be ran with the timbers and framing of these old buildings and look better sometimes than EMT.... But Id run my main runs in EMT as it looks better is some places, and will be cheaper for homeruns as you can put in more circuits.
 
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