I see a lot of talk on them as of late but not on this page. Just curious as to anybody's personal experience with them. Especially on non JD or IH tractors as there is less talk about them but feel free to discuss if JD or IH. I remember a few 4010's being done back in the 1960's and 1970's and recounted that on the JD page here a few weeks back. Regardless of color the smart strategy for long term durability was maybe to get another 15 hp out of a turbo add on tractor. Taking a tractor wound up for the pulling track to the field for many hours seemed like a sure way to doom a tractor. Locally, there is a 3020 that was turbo charged shortly after it was bought new and has done very well. Pulled 5 X 16 in its early life and a planting/ baling tractor for many years. 806 turbo around as well.
- Thread starter NY 986
- Start date
Old Ford Mechanic
Well-known Member
Several Ford 5000 tractors around this area had the M&W's installed. I recall no major problems with them. You wanted to watch the engine temp.
rockcreek4630
Member
My father in law had a case 1030 turbo. I have a manifold and turbo for a 930. I have seen a bunch of jd 5010,5020 when they put the turbo on they turned the fuel up 15 to 20 %. Then weighed up with big weights 30.5x32 dual's full of fluid and ended up with ventilated blocks.
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
I was out your way a few years ago at a farm on Vernal Road. I don't remember their name. [I just looked it up, and it's east of Attica.] I think I was combine shopping and wanted to talk to the guy who did custom work with CaseIH rotaries. A young, enterprising fellow there had turbocharged, I think an M, or 400, I'm not sure. He did fantastic work. It's got to present a whole new level of difficulty to turbocharge a carbureted engine.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
We had turboed 806s and 4020s in my neighborhood that lasted many thousands of hours without problems. The pump was not turned up much if at all on them. I dont know about any other brands because my area was pretty much all red and green.
I know I tend to be fairly vague as to my location but I am near Geneva so around an hour away from you. I always wanted to go visit the guy that you are referring to as I think the next combine here will be a 1660. If my memory is any good the guy you are talking about salvaged parts out of the early Axial Flow combines or did. My budget is such that I need some of my parts come used. I know one time I needed a fountain auger for the 6620 combine and found one for 1/3 of what JD would have charged me.
jon f mn
Well-known Member
There are not many cases with m&w kits on them. The main reason for that is the case engine does not suit turbo charging well, there is just not much to gain with the older 30 series engines. There are a few 9/1030s around and I have seen some, but they didn't claim much advantage. When the 70 series came out that changed, but again not many m$w kits because case had all the parts to change them and that was easier. You could turbo any of the smaller 70 series cases and get a good improvement.
As other have said, we had quite a few 4020s and 806s with turbos around here.
As other have said, we had quite a few 4020s and 806s with turbos around here.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
I have a 4020 with M&W turbo on it. Dad bought it new then sold it with 700 hours on to the neighbor in 1972. About 78 the turbo was added. The main reason was better fuel economy. He pulled the same equipment as before. Four bottom plow and 2 row chopper. They set the hp at 105. Tractor has always had great care but in the fall of 89 while driving down the road they had a big bang. It broke the top off a piston somewhere between the rings. Tractor was overhauled and now has 6000 original hours. I also have another 4020 non turbo with a M&W engine kit that has the fuel setup a lot. Never had either on a dyno but the non turbo will run circles around the turbo tractor. Tom
Decades ago I purchased a 4010 with a turbo. I had to overhaul it almost right away. It put out 110 Hp. When working it in the field the temperature would rise in a tough spot. I had to change oil every 80 hrs because at that point it would start to use a lot of oil. It had trouble seating the sleeves and the head gasket would leak. I had it 8 years and was relatively happy with it. Then I purchased a 1970 4020 with a turbo on it set at 110 Hp and had no problems with it ( maybe cause it had the bigger oil pan and fan shroud) until a seal on the turbo started leaking bad. To save money I took it off and was able to redo existing air pipes to make it work. I put a 148 loader on it so it did not need the extra Hp. My uncle was a mechanic and he put several on 806s. He said they had better cooling. Plus he did not set the Hp excessively high.
My 4010 is set to 101 HP with a JD original 4020 kit in it. Runs excellent and is very fair on fuel. I would not mind a 4010 or 4020 turbo but that is pretty far down on the list of things to collect. At some point the 3020 turbo that I mentioned will become available and it has always been a local tractor. Its "brother" is just down the road from me and started its career with a 237 corn picker on top of it. The corn picker is long gone and mounted pickers from that era did not sell many units in this part of the east.
Dieseltech
Well-known Member
- Location
- Akron, Indiana
Getting greedy with the max fuel setting screw is what causes most trouble, unless the cooling system has the capacity it needs to prevent overheating. I've always thought the M&W gear Rayjay/Thompson turbos were on the conservative side anyway far as boost pressure goes. I have several M&W install/parts lists for IH models, if I recall for 560, 706, 806, 966, and maybe the DV550 V-8.
Locally the 4020's had problems if they went much past 115-120 horses...Just about all the 5010-5020's around here had problems when turbos were added and the fuel screw was turned too much....The 806 IH's would handle 130-140 horses..My 856 IH ran a much bigger turbo and was run at about 150-160 horses in the field...It carried lots of oil with a truck oil filter added...It was capable of 190-200 horses in the field but puked water in warm weather so had to turn it down...It was run at 300-350 hp on the pulling track and I had no major problems..After the serious tractor pulling was over with we did ring it but nothing else..
A neighbor had a 5000 Ford with a M&W turbo...It stayed together good at 90 horses..
A neighbor had a 5000 Ford with a M&W turbo...It stayed together good at 90 horses..
I wonder how much that the quality of oil from decades ago factors in. We replaced the turbo on the 8430 back in the 1980's using Texaco premium oil. We have run JD 50 plus oil for quite a long time now and the oil looks better coming out of the drain plus no new turbo.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
I am not a fan of 3020's with turbo. In hard work a 3020 could stand more cooling and adding a turbo can only make it worse. Makes them sound good and would be fine for a chore tractor. Tom
Tramway Guy
Well-known Member
“.... We have run JD 50 plus oil for quite a long time now and the oil looks better coming out of the drain plus no new turbo.”
Some of the improvement in oil cleanliness has to so with getting rid of sulfur.
Some of the improvement in oil cleanliness has to so with getting rid of sulfur.
If I got it (and that is a big if given my finances) it would be a sprayer tractor and pull a conventional grain drill. The brother 3020 is still NFE and most likely could be bought substantially cheaper. One reason that I want a 237 corn picker. The invoices are long gone but it would be an interesting story how the original owner bought both 3020's at the same time. One with a 5 bottom plow and the other with a picker. The owner was well to do and from the city playing Oliver Douglass from Green Acres but with more sense.
The M&W test farm was just down the road. Harlan Simpson ran it. He thought a 3020 powershift with a turbo was the best tractor. Had it set around 100 pto hp. They brought a 4020 up to the Moline dealership where I worked . On the first stop of the throttle. I think about 2000 rpm. Pulling it down to 1900 had about 135. Wide open had 150. Had a G1000 vista it had 150 also. At 1800. We had put a M&W leaf spring in the pump. They also had a G1000 MM. With a 65 hp air cooled Wisconsin just behind the drivers seat belted to the 1000 rpm pto shaft. When you thru the pto in it would leap forward. They had other brands but mainly farmed with John Deeres.
had a ford 5000 row crop with an m&w.... no complaints, but the hinson? cab wa/c was so loud you could not hear yourself think. A turbo would produce 15% +- more hp.... Was a ray-jay turbo iirc. Tractor did eveything I expected of a 5000 and a bit more. BUt my ears are still ringing..
Pulled a 25 foot field cultivator over 1000 acres, plus many acres of other work. 200 acres of potatoes to cultivate and harvest, I know they ran another tractor on those also, but the tillage was the hard work. Ran 24/7 if they could. It was overworked, but it’s what they had and made do with it.
Greg NE
Member
- Location
- Duncan, Nebraska
My dad bought a 1965 Ford 5000 SOS in around 1970 that had an M&W turbo on it. He scored a piston plowing that 1st spring with it. He had it overhauled and he always claimed the mechanic told him it was turned up to a little over 100HP. He said no wonder it scored a piston!! He told the mechanic to turn it down to a more acceptable level, I never was told exactly where they set it but I grew up running that tractor and at night there would be be a good 6" flame coming out of the straight pipe and the manifold would be glowing. Only trouble he had after the overhaul was every couple of years or so it would crack a manifold when he was chopping silage or side dressing anhydrous ammonia. I remember 3 hour meters being on that tractor and they all had 6 to 7K on them. I still have that tractor but it finally has some transmission troubles and the engine could definitely use another freshening up. One of these days I'm going to tear into it and if I can get that fixed I'll do the engine and give it a new paint job, lots of sentimental value to me.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
Neighbor has a 560 with a mw. Couldn't get enough air through the air cleaner so he took one off a JD combine and mounted it out side the engine. I sometimes drive it on the baler for him. I love the sound of it with that turbo. Deep throaty sound.
big tee
Well-known Member
Had both a 4010 and a 5010 with a turbo--They are why I say "HUH" a lot--4010 was my planting tractor--pulled a 12 row 7000 Deere with dry fertilizer--Planting with the wind in 5th gear it would get warm on 3/4 mi. rows before you got to the end-had to watch it. 5010 was my main tillage tractor--pulled 6-18's 3200 Deere plow in 4th gear--worked good.---Tee
18.4x38's with M&W oil pan
Had a 32 ft. Stanhoist field conditioner behind it--Dad rented a farm and someone got stuck the previous year combining beans--told the Wife to get close and work the holes shut--She got too close and fell in one of the holes and got stuck--got 2 ins. of rain that night-took half the tractors in the county to pull it out!!!
18.4x38's with M&W oil pan
Had a 32 ft. Stanhoist field conditioner behind it--Dad rented a farm and someone got stuck the previous year combining beans--told the Wife to get close and work the holes shut--She got too close and fell in one of the holes and got stuck--got 2 ins. of rain that night-took half the tractors in the county to pull it out!!!
Robert (ID)
Member
We have a First year(1973 i think) 4230 syncro that has an M&W turbo on it.. It was bought During the time of take what ever you can get.. the original order was for a 4430 quad but this is what was available and it worked.. Pulling 4/18 jd 4200 you better keep an eye on the pyro.. Many times i run out of traction long before i run out of HP..
In the early 60's, my Grandpa had an MF Super 90 Diesel. M & W was looking to place a turbo on an MF tractor and called Kuhns Equipment at Arthur, IL to see if they had anyone who might be willing to experiement. They had not placed a turbo on an MF tractor yet. Grandpa agreed and they took the tractor to Anchor, IL and installed the setup. According to my Grandpa and the mechanic at Kuhns, it was a neat setup and was very sharp in how they plumbed it, but in doing do, they moved the exhaust back and according to my Grandpa it was too close to the steering wheel which caused your hands to get hot.
The turbo proved too much for the 4 cylinder diesel and the crankshaft broke with most internals creating an inspection hole in the oil pan. Beings it was an experiment, Massey would not stand behind it nor would M & W. My Grandpa had to have it repaired, which he did and the dealership allowed him to pay on it for many years. The experience soured him on M & W and Massey. For the remainder of his farming career, he never owned another piece of Massey equipment and traded the tractor for an IH 806. The Super 90 went to Wisconsin in about 1965. I would like to find it and bring it home. I still have the Operator's Manual for it. Since I live next door to Kuhns, I asked them about the serial number. Unfortunately, the records were destroyed, but the mechanic who worked on it is still living and shared many stories about it. 50 years later, my Uncle bought his last new tractor, it was a Massey.
The turbo proved too much for the 4 cylinder diesel and the crankshaft broke with most internals creating an inspection hole in the oil pan. Beings it was an experiment, Massey would not stand behind it nor would M & W. My Grandpa had to have it repaired, which he did and the dealership allowed him to pay on it for many years. The experience soured him on M & W and Massey. For the remainder of his farming career, he never owned another piece of Massey equipment and traded the tractor for an IH 806. The Super 90 went to Wisconsin in about 1965. I would like to find it and bring it home. I still have the Operator's Manual for it. Since I live next door to Kuhns, I asked them about the serial number. Unfortunately, the records were destroyed, but the mechanic who worked on it is still living and shared many stories about it. 50 years later, my Uncle bought his last new tractor, it was a Massey.
Donald Lehman
Well-known Member
We had a nieghbor who claimed he had cranked up a 4010 to around 133 hp. with the M&W. He said they blew a head gasket about every ten hours. He said at 120 hp it seemed to hold together ok. We took a 4010 with the M$W turbo on it in trade. it was set up somewhere in the 115 to 120 hp. range. It did not have the large oil pan or the oil cooler. Always ran hot if you worked it for any length of time. Made one heck of a good forage/hay wagon hauler though. Made a good tractor on the silage blower, too! Could unload the old AC forage box in around 3 minutes and the 216 JD in around 4 minutes. Just engage the wagon PTO and let er rip! Had a flat tire in the field, changed tires, and left a 20 ton jack in the cross conveyor. Forgot it and the 4010 put the thing right over the top of a 50 foot silo. I bent and hammered the blower blade back into place, but the blower was never the same after that. Only lasted another year.
Only Moline Deere dealer I remember was right on the south side of the Rock River on 27th Street AKA Bridge Lane. Was right next to Frank's Foundry south plant, and just north of what was the Holiday Inn.
I still have the post card they sent Dad about the New Generation introduction, they promised a 4010D to be on display. We went, We saw, was 8 yrs before Dad bought a '63 4010-D. We had the pump turned up after suffering with it running around 65-70 hp, pump guy guessed between 100-105 hp. Tractor had the 4020 kit in it when we bought it. It NEVER ran warm. We tried pulling 4-row 4-bottom equipment faster. Young guy about my age bought it off Dad, it was in the shop fixing that stupid design pto shifter from 540 to 1000, he had an M&W turbo installed before he took it home in July, maybe early August. Following spring had the transmission or rearend fail.
Our Deere repair shop was Terry Warner, Warner's Turbo Shop east of Cambridge, Ill, did R&D work for M&W, had a 756 with D310 Nuess engine making 140 hp he farmed with. Pulled 756 sized equipment but a gear or two faster.
I still have the post card they sent Dad about the New Generation introduction, they promised a 4010D to be on display. We went, We saw, was 8 yrs before Dad bought a '63 4010-D. We had the pump turned up after suffering with it running around 65-70 hp, pump guy guessed between 100-105 hp. Tractor had the 4020 kit in it when we bought it. It NEVER ran warm. We tried pulling 4-row 4-bottom equipment faster. Young guy about my age bought it off Dad, it was in the shop fixing that stupid design pto shifter from 540 to 1000, he had an M&W turbo installed before he took it home in July, maybe early August. Following spring had the transmission or rearend fail.
Our Deere repair shop was Terry Warner, Warner's Turbo Shop east of Cambridge, Ill, did R&D work for M&W, had a 756 with D310 Nuess engine making 140 hp he farmed with. Pulled 756 sized equipment but a gear or two faster.
A story from many years ago. A man sent his 3020D with a turbo on it to a local John Deere dealer to have some work done on it, but nothing on the engine. A couple of the mechanics started to speculate how much power they could get out of the 3020D. Only one way to find out! So they put it on the dyno and started to turn up the screws to it. I don't remember what the highest horse power was when the engine blew, but it was pretty high. The mechanics were happy??? to put a new engine in it? Bummer to be them!
Hay maker2
Member
As previously stated, this would be Tom Jereczek
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
I can't say for all these engines you guys are talking about but a Cat by the time you have the engine temp come up any the turbo is already out the door for pyrometer temperature. My trucks would go up on the exhaust like a tach if you pulled them hard up hill. I never had water temp issues just had to watch the exhaust temp. These were stock factory engines. Our 4166 would also have to watch how hard you pulled it for being warm on the exhaust.
We could never afford to do all this turbo HP stuff. Always just got a bigger tractor or used what we had. Mostly used what we had. Now the old tractors never leave and the next one arrive, so keep adding tractors. Getting to the point we need to adjust that some more than we have time to keep up good.
We could never afford to do all this turbo HP stuff. Always just got a bigger tractor or used what we had. Mostly used what we had. Now the old tractors never leave and the next one arrive, so keep adding tractors. Getting to the point we need to adjust that some more than we have time to keep up good.
You actually dynoed your 856 at 300-350 hp.
An 856 at 190-200hp won’t stay together or even stay cool working in the field. 1256 and 1456s would overheat if they were turned up much. That’s why the 66 series came out with more distance between the frame rails for a bigger radiator
An 856 at 190-200hp won’t stay together or even stay cool working in the field. 1256 and 1456s would overheat if they were turned up much. That’s why the 66 series came out with more distance between the frame rails for a bigger radiator
Robert (ID)
Member
Talk to bern on the ford forum... he is great with SOS trans..
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