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Self Driving Trucks

showcrop

showcrop

Well-known Member
A customer recently told me about his order taking two extra days to arrive. I called the lady in the office who handles the shipping. She told me that she is having a very tough time to get carriers for our product. I hope that the self driving trucks can get on the road in great numbers very soon. Besides being able to run without the drivers that are no longer available, they will run far more miles without problems, especially crashes. We have had the technology to alert drivers to freezing temperatures, black ice, fog, stopped vehicles ahead etc. for years. The self driven trucks, instead of barreling on like a few humans do, will slow down for the problem, so many of the horrific multi-vehicle crashes that we have seen on TV in the last year won't happen. These trucks will do the OTR long haul terminal to terminal work that human drivers don't want, so that the drivers can stay local like they want to doing the work that takes reasoning. The major carriers will set up fueling stops dedicated to the autonomous trucks just off the highways, where they will get checked out while being fueled. They will perhaps get fuel cells like the race cars do so that they can safely carry a lot more fuel, so that far fewer stops are needed. They will be on the road in greater numbers when cars are fewer so congestion will be reduced.
 
Times are changing very fast.
Some people will be for it and others
rant against it.
AI will learn from accidents and they
will be programmed to fix it.
Hard to reprogram people.
People will have many What If Questions that only the AI programmers can answer.
 
In the event they are actually safer ??????? I might be persuaded, but for now at least the engineer in me remains skeptical.
Its still humans who program and make decisions regarding their operation and unfortunately they arent perfect.....

Im sure there are lots of different opinions on this to which all are entitled.

John T
 
Really? We have had the technology to alert drivers to black ice, fog, and obstacles ahead for years? Maybe some
of that, but certainly not black ice.

You seem to forget that it takes longer for a large commercial vehicle to respond to control inputs when hazards
are detected than the time it takes to avoid those hazards. As far as I know, there is no technology that will
warn of black ice soon enough to avoid it. Self driving trucks will still not be able to stop any shorter or
sooner than human driven trucks.

But, there are a few other things that you also leave out of this equation. Like maintenance. How many times is a
driver told to just make this one run and we'll get it fixed when you get back? How many times to trucking
companies send out vehicles with issues with brakes, tires, lights, or other safety equipment? Do you think that
self driving trucks will make companies maintain their trucks in better mechanical condition? Right.

I am certainly in no hurry to get this technology on the road so that showcrop can get his package sooner.
 
Maybe 20 years from now but not anytime soon. To many variables that a machine can not react to. Also when the machine fails it will be human life that will be lost. You are also going to have to convince insurance companies as any accidents with driverless vehicles will result in mega lawsuits. I am not saying the technology should not be developed but the builders better make sure they have it right. Tom
 
Rusty ..... your grandfather probably said the same thing two generations back about regular cars and trucks. Actually, my grandfather never did drive a single mile in his whole life but it had nothing to do with denying progress and technology, he simply lived in the city and never had a need to buy a car (and financially it was probably out of his reach anyways).
 
The self drving vehicals should be PERMENTLY BANNED FRON ANY ROAD and anybody pushing them should be rotting in JAIL!!! And being safer NO WAY. And I have been in too many wrecks (3 in one year) that were not my fault, 2 failuar to stop for a stop sign and a sideswipe of 2 semis and NO WAY any self driving vehical could have handled them.
 
(quoted from post at 05:27:02 05/26/21) Rusty ..... your grandfather probably said the same thing two generations back about regular cars and trucks. Actually, my grandfather never did drive a single mile in his whole life but it had nothing to do with denying progress and technology, he simply lived in the city and never had a need to buy a car (and financially it was probably out of his reach anyways).
Click to expand...

Both of my grandfathers passed away while my parents were both quite young, but my mother does remember the Whippet automobile that her father owned, and she also remembers the Farmall regular that replaced the horses on the farm.
 
Imagine computer freeze up and glitches !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol Does that happen wink wink

Take care

John T
 
we already have that strait line called a rail. with a little forthought they could make all
new lines for driverless train or truck. local would still have to deliver from point of
rail to location. would take a lot more lines and some real good organization. I still think
the best thing would be to sit back relax and not always be in such a hurry and have
everything NOW. When a farmer broke down 35 years ago he waited till parts arrived and did
something else in the mean time. Today he thinks the world came to an end because he has so
much land he can't wait a few days to get back on the planting or his crop insurance runs
out. Just a different world today with everyone thinking I want it NOW
 
It seems to me that the first step should be that the driverless truck should be the second truck in a pair going somewhere with the lead truck having a driver which can be
looking out for problems and the second one follows at a safe distance. The lead truck would need to have less power than the following one.
 
I don't know, every single electronic product I own malfunctions constantly. Not very comforting to be on the highway with trucks being driven by them.
 
(quoted from post at 10:26:34 05/26/21) I don't know, every single electronic product I own malfunctions constantly. Not very comforting to be on the highway with trucks being driven by them.
Click to expand...

So does every drunk on the road, yet we do not have the technology or will to prevent it 100%..
 
Some cities already have driverless subways. Rail would be much simpler to automate than roads.

With all this computer hacking going on like it did for that oil pipeline a few weeks back, a nationwide system of self-driving trucks seems like asking for trouble. If we did have automated trains, they should have a manual mode so vital supplies aren't disrupted in case of a hack. Even a simple automated mode that took the train no further then the next station (where it could be re-set and sent to the next station) would work. Local drivers could take it from there.

However, I'm not so sure automated trains are even required as a train can have 100's of cars in it, and 2 or 3 people can operate the whole thing. That would be the equivalent of 100's of licensed semi drivers. If you're already moving 1000's of tons of cargo, the wage cost for the train crew is only a fraction of the shipping cost.

The big drawback is rail logistics are not as speedy as those for road trucks. I don't see a lot of carriers promising 48-hour delivery signing up for rail mode. If someone could introduce road truck timeliness and responsiveness into a rail system, it would be tough to beat.
 
While nothing is impossible I still believe there are many many hurdles to address before it could ever become a reality.

How is a computer controlled vehicle going to respond to;

-A steering tire blowing out
-A deer jumping out in front of it
-A tree or rocks falling on the road
-Load restraints coming loose during the trip
-Mud, snow, ice build up on sensors
-Would a computer be able to make the split second decision to swerve or drive into the ditch when a child suddenly walks in front of it?
If so which ditch? Is there any oncoming traffic? What direction is going to cause the least amount of damage?
-Then of course there are the hackers that have nothing better to do than see how they can mess with the control systems.

Say a duck flies in front of the truck, does it lock up the brakes? Does it swerve? Does it ignore it?
How about a piece of paper or plastic blowing around in front of it's sensors?

I remember when I was a kid in school we thought it was great fun to spit on a sheet of paper and stick it to the wall knowing that by the wee hours of the morning it would dry out, fall to the ground, set off the motion detectors and activate the alarm system.

If we could think up stuff like that at a young age then I hate to think what kids that without stopping to comprehend the magnitude of their actions might come up with.
 
When a deer jumps out in front of a vehicle, the operate should slow down and stay in the appropriate lane. In that regard, a computer operated vehicle will beat a human by a wide margin. less loss of live and injuries. Damages will be lower in total costs. There may be more damaged vehicles but the vehicles will all be repairable instead of totaled.
 
(quoted from post at 09:00:22 05/26/21) When a deer jumps out in front of a vehicle, the operate should slow down and stay in the appropriate lane. In that regard, a computer operated vehicle will beat a human by a wide margin. less loss of live and injuries. Damages will be lower in total costs. There may be more damaged vehicles but the vehicles will all be repairable instead of totaled.
Click to expand...

While I don't disagree with what you said about the operator slowing down and staying in the appropriate lane being proper protocol if the computer is programmed to respond that way can the computer tell the difference between a deer that jumped out of a bush and a child that ran out onto the road?
Same circumstances but different response/actions required.
Protocol is only the right procedure to follow until it is not.

I personally came within inches of hitting at highway speed a man standing between two horses in the dark, presuming they had gotten out and he was leading them off the highway just as I came over the top of a hill.

I locked up the brakes but that wasn't enough, last second I released them and swerved so hard it was amazing I didn't roll it over.
Again a split second decision with potential consequences I was willing to take in the given situation.

I hope to never encounter a situation like that again, when they can program computers to respond the same way then bring them on.
 
[b:654c4848f0]She told me that she is having a very tough time to get carriers for our product[/b:654c4848f0]

Translation......

I under bid the price to get your business and now can not get carriers to haul it for the ridiculously low price I quoted you.


But self driving trucks are just like EV.
People need to get over their fear of change for it to happen.

This will not be trucks driving down city streets when it happens.
It will be more like hauling double 53 foot trailers on a turnpike.
The self driving trucks will never leave the interstate.
Just like turnpike trailers all trailers will be shuttled to the interstate neutral ground by human drivers.
The self driving trucks will only drive from point A to point B.

The truck I drive today does many of the things some of you have questions on how a self driving truck will handle a situation.
Some of the questions are even ridiculous like how will the truck avoid a child.
I mean when was the last time you saw children playing on the interstate.
And even if a truck; with a driver; hit a person on the interstate is that the drivers/trucks fault.
 

Like anything really complex - heart transplants and landing on the moon come to mind - improvement will be incremental, but it will slowly come to something acceptable.

Folks in the Houston area can order Dominos pizza and have it delivered by a Nuro vehicle which is completely human-free. Customer gets a texted code on the phone to open the compartment where the pizza rides. If the vehicle can safely navigate the traffic there it will be a real accomplishment. I wish I was young enough to work at Nuro and watch all this come into being.
 
just as I came over the top of a hill.


So you were driving past your line of sight.
All the more reason we need self driving trucks.
Self driving trucks never get in a rush.
The biggest problem self driving trucks will have is people wanting to pass them or getting into their safe driving distance because they are so
slow and careful. In other words they drive like people should drive.
 
"Some of the questions are even ridiculous like how will the truck avoid a child.
I mean when was the last time you saw children playing on the interstate."
[/quote]

Just last summer

It was on a 4 lane highway, not sure if that fits the definition of an interstate.

Individual was changing a tire on the shoulder of the road with 2 young kids out behind the car, were they playing a game? I don't know.
 
Don't you think the people working on these systems are asking the same questions? They don't want to get sued any more than you want to see these vehicles on the road in the first place.
 
kids out behind the car, were they playing a game? I don't know.


Let me quell your fears.
The truck I drive today has self braking while the cruse is on.
It will pick up a car; motor bike; deer; and I assume even a child.
Based on the speed of the thing in front of me the truck by itself will let off the accelerator; apply the jake brake; and even lock the brakes
to where the tires are smoking; if it deems that the appropriate action to take.
Just passing me and pulling in front of me then slowing to get off a exit will induce a braking action by the truck.
The system even sees threw fog and rain better than I can myself.
So hitting something in the road is very unreal situation.

The biggest hurtle will be changing lanes because at present it does not read the lane next to me.
The truck can not tell the differance in approaching a slower truck or all lanes slowing because of a accident.
If it came up on right lane closed for road construction it would just stop in the right lane rather than moving to the left.
 
I think people said similar things about why the horseless carriage and the airplane would never work too.
 
(quoted from post at 10:24:47 05/26/21) kids out behind the car, were they playing a game? I don't know.


Let me quell your fears.
The truck I drive today has self braking while the cruse is on.
It will pick up a car; motor bike; deer; and I assume even a child.
Based on the speed of the thing in front of me the truck by itself will let off the accelerator; apply the jake brake; and even lock the brakes
to where the tires are smoking; if it deems that the appropriate action to take.
Just passing me and pulling in front of me then slowing to get off a exit will induce a braking action by the truck.
The system even sees threw fog and rain better than I can myself.
So hitting something in the road is very unreal situation.

The biggest hurtle will be changing lanes because at present it does not read the lane next to me.
The truck can not tell the differance in approaching a slower truck or all lanes slowing because of a accident.
If it came up on right lane closed for road construction it would just stop in the right lane rather than moving to the left.
Click to expand...

Sounds like some pretty good technology, is it at all affected by mud and snow?

Do you find yourself feeling confident in letting it do it's job or do you typically react and take control as you approach the need to slow down first?
 
There is video on Youtube of a truck going merily on its way, oblivious to the car jammed under the rear bumper. I sure hope no one was inside.

This stuff is not fool proof. That is why there are still pilots in air planes. To either take over (Or take the blame) it something goes wrong.
 
[b:654c4848f0]do you typically react and take control as you approach the need to slow down[/b:654c4848f0]

Of course I still drive the truck as I see fit.
The system is not turned up so it only reacts to accident avoidance now.
It also will need to be be tweaked to go fully driverless.
But the point is we are well on our way to having driverless trucks.
It will not be tomorrow but I can see it down the road.

The truck I drive today will....
Brake for accident avoidance.
Warn me if I get out of my lane.
Reads speed limit signs.
Keeps a safe following distance.
So we are well on our way.

I never drive in mud but I can see ice and snow; or even heavy rain being a problem.
The system we have will not read road conditions so it will not slow down for bad road conditions.
But as the system is tweaked I can see them addressing these situations.
 
The technology IS being used in some places in the US already that uses only one person on a train traveling on main lines.it also exists to where no person is actually required but we arent quite at that point yet,I guess some situations actually require a thinking person
 
(quoted from post at 13:19:21 05/26/21) The way my GPS works I would say we may not be quite ready for this technology.
Click to expand...

The best consumer grade gps you can buy is not the gps these driverless vehicles are using.

Consumers get the use of old and obsolete gps satellites.
Commercial users get something better.
Military and federal government agencies get the latest and greatest.
 
(quoted from post at 13:08:32 05/26/21) There is video on Youtube of a truck going merily on its way, oblivious to the car jammed under the rear bumper. I sure hope no one was inside.

This stuff is not fool proof. That is why there are still pilots in air planes. To either take over (Or take the blame) it something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Show us a link.
I am betting it is not a "driverless" truck.
 
(quoted from post at 11:44:35 05/26/21)
(quoted from post at 13:19:21 05/26/21) The way my GPS works I would say we may not be quite ready for this technology.
Click to expand...

The best consumer grade gps you can buy is not the gps these driverless vehicles are using.

Consumers get the use of old and obsolete gps satellites.
Commercial users get something better.
Military and federal government agencies get the latest and greatest.
Click to expand...

I was about to say the same thing.
 
So lets just say there is an accident. What is the protocol for the truck? Is it a hit and run deal or does it stop or continue on till somebody notices the broken/missing fender at the next scale. I only had on sht hole company that would run junk equipment that I leased on to for a very short time. Went to my own authority and if I didn't like the price or /and schedule didn't take the load. I also would not take loads over time frames to make crane appointments. I did do crane loads just not reefer scheduled crane loads. No sense in hurrying to a crane with an oversize on.
 
I think they would need their own lane to
keep them separate and safe from the
human drivers. For efficiency they could
have super hard tires and have a bunch of
them all hooked together in a long line.
 

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cvphoto89782.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 04:54:31 05/26/21) Really? We have had the technology to alert drivers to black ice, fog, and obstacles ahead for years? Maybe some
of that, but certainly not black ice.

You seem to forget that it takes longer for a large commercial vehicle to respond to control inputs when hazards
are detected than the time it takes to avoid those hazards. As far as I know, there is no technology that will
warn of black ice soon enough to avoid it. Self driving trucks will still not be able to stop any shorter or
sooner than human driven trucks.

But, there are a few other things that you also leave out of this equation. Like maintenance. How many times is a
driver told to just make this one run and we'll get it fixed when you get back? How many times to trucking
companies send out vehicles with issues with brakes, tires, lights, or other safety equipment? Do you think that
self driving trucks will make companies maintain their trucks in better mechanical condition? Right.

I am certainly in no hurry to get this technology on the road so that showcrop can get his package sooner.
Click to expand...


JimG, as usual try going back and reading my OP again.
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:17 05/26/21)
(quoted from post at 09:00:22 05/26/21) When a deer jumps out in front of a vehicle, the operate should slow down and stay in the appropriate lane. In that regard, a computer operated vehicle will beat a human by a wide margin. less loss of live and injuries. Damages will be lower in total costs. There may be more damaged vehicles but the vehicles will all be repairable instead of totaled.
Click to expand...

While I don't disagree with what you said about the operator slowing down and staying in the appropriate lane being proper protocol if the computer is programmed to respond that way can the computer tell the difference between a deer that jumped out of a bush and a child that ran out onto the road?
Same circumstances but different response/actions required.
Protocol is only the right procedure to follow until it is not.

I personally came within inches of hitting at highway speed a man standing between two horses in the dark, presuming they had gotten out and he was leading them off the highway just as I came over the top of a hill.

I locked up the brakes but that wasn't enough, last second I released them and swerved so hard it was amazing I didn't roll it over.
Again a split second decision with potential consequences I was willing to take in the given situation.

I hope to never encounter a situation like that again, when they can program computers to respond the same way then bring them on.
Click to expand...

Determined, computer brakes have been responding far better than that for many years.
 
(quoted from post at 07:54:36 05/26/21) [b:a8eb4f0a2e]She told me that she is having a very tough time to get carriers for our product[/b:a8eb4f0a2e]

Translation......

I under bid the price to get your business and now can not get carriers to haul it for the ridiculously low price I quoted you.


But self driving trucks are just like EV.
People need to get over their fear of change for it to happen.

This will not be trucks driving down city streets when it happens.
It will be more like hauling double 53 foot trailers on a turnpike.
The self driving trucks will never leave the interstate.
Just like turnpike trailers all trailers will be shuttled to the interstate neutral ground by human drivers.
The self driving trucks will only drive from point A to point B.

The truck I drive today does many of the things some of you have questions on how a self driving truck will handle a situation.
Some of the questions are even ridiculous like how will the truck avoid a child.
I mean when was the last time you saw children playing on the interstate.
And even if a truck; with a driver; hit a person on the interstate is that the drivers/trucks fault.
Click to expand...


John, your translation is wrong. She has been using Estes a lot for 4-5 years going to VA, SC, WV, FL etc. They can't send the trucks now.
 
Embedded systems, which is the real name for the kind of computer circuits that will "drive" these vehicles do not "freeze up" like the amateur Windoze (intentional misspelling to show my disgust for Micro$oft). Fly-by-wire supersonic jets use embedded system and they are reliable. They have a pilot but do not really need one. The armed drones that have killed dozens of our enemies over the last several years have the same embedded technology and they successfully avoided all manner of things thrown at them.
 
There was no misunderstanding. I said my piece. You claim we have technology that I have never seen or heard of,
and you say that we have had it for years. I disagree.

You apparently want self driving trucks on the roads so that you can get your packages quicker. How selfish of you.
 
I'm sure they will them out and working
right, but I'm against it, taking jobs away
from people, the economy needs jobs, this
is like wal mart putting in self checkouts!
 
(quoted from post at 03:10:29 05/27/21) I'm sure they will them out and working
right, but I'm against it, taking jobs away
from people, the economy needs jobs, this
is like wal mart putting in self checkouts!
Click to expand...


Brown Swiss, The economy does not need jobs it needs workers! If you know of anyone who wants a job, you could earn a bounty by getting them hooked up with a company that needs workers. it is especially true in long haul trucking. For every driver out there there is also a vacant driver's position.
 
(quoted from post at 16:46:41 05/26/21)
(quoted from post at 13:08:32 05/26/21) There is video on Youtube of a truck going merily on its way, oblivious to the car jammed under the rear bumper. I sure hope no one was inside.

This stuff is not fool proof. That is why there are still pilots in air planes. To either take over (Or take the blame) it something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Show us a link.
I am betting it is not a "driverless" truck.
Click to expand...

This one maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAULu-cGwA0
 


What I see as the greatest advantage to driverless trucks is that the driver will be constantly attentive. It will not be texting, doing drugs, talking on a phone, sleeping, intoxicated, late or in a hurry. It will always take appropriate action for the input that it is getting about conditions on the highway ahead.
 
(quoted from post at 07:24:57 05/27/21)

What I see as the greatest advantage to driverless trucks is that the driver will be constantly attentive. It will not be texting, doing drugs, talking on a phone, sleeping, intoxicated, late or in a hurry. It will always take appropriate action for the input that it is getting about conditions on the highway ahead.
Click to expand...


Assuming the computers are programmed to avoid collisions how long before the criminal minds realize that with nothing more than a couple of pick up trucks they can easily pull in front of and along side a transport and cause it to stop on the side of the road.

Unload the cargo they want from the driverless truck and be long gone before anybody can drive out to it.
 
Rail seems like it would be easier to automate.
DIL hires drivers, she says it is hard to find new drivers who can meet CDL requirements. Especially HAZMAT
Hackers could really cause havoc!
Won't self driving trucks still need have a deadman control? If so, they will need a human.
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:21 05/27/21) I agree, many good paying jobs in my
hood, $15-20/hr no workers.
Click to expand...

Looks like indiana unemployment is a max. of $390 from the state.
Plus the $300 per week from the feds.


$690 per week over 40 hours is $17.25/hr, you gonna take a $15/hr job or take unemployment until it runs out??
 
By your comment, I take it that you assume that human drivers are texting, driving intoxicated, sleeping, on the
phone, or otherwise distracted?

Shall we start with the phone. Using a cell phone while driving a commercial vehicle is illegal unless it is
hands free. Same with texting. Alcohol limits are ZERO while driving a commercial vehicle. According to the
regulations, any detectable trace of alcohol in a driver's system is a mandatory 24 hours out of service. Drugs
in the system require entry into rehab (1st offense) or disqualification for 10 years.

So, any of the conditions you mention above are illegal to start with. Therefore, what you are saying is that a
driverless truck is inherently safer than a driver acting illegally.

I agree with that! What I do NOT agree with is the assumption that commercial drivers are inattentive, drunk, talking on phones, or are otherwise distracted from their duties.

This post was edited by jimg.allentown on 05/27/2021 at 01:29 pm.
 
(quoted from post at 15:12:22 05/27/21) By your comment, I take it that you assume that human drivers are texting, driving intoxicated, sleeping, on the
phone, or otherwise distracted?

Shall we start with the phone. Using a cell phone while driving a commercial vehicle is illegal unless it is
hands free. Same with texting. Alcohol limits are ZERO while driving a commercial vehicle. According to the
regulations, any detectable trace of alcohol in a driver's system is a mandatory 24 hours out of service. Drugs
in the system require entry into rehab (1st offense) or disqualification for 10 years.

So, any of the conditions you mention above are illegal to start with. Therefore, what you are saying is that a
driverless truck is inherently safer than a driver acting illegally.

I agree with that! What I do NOT agree with is the assumption that commercial drivers are not attentive, drunk,
talking on phones, or are otherwise distracted from their duties.
Click to expand...

Assuming goes both ways.
Most are smart enough to know that most do not do the things mentioned that might be a distraction while driving.
But some are not.
 
(quoted from post at 18:58:39 05/26/21) There was no misunderstanding. I said my piece. You claim we have technology that I have never seen or heard of,
and you say that we have had it for years. I disagree.

You apparently want self driving trucks on the roads so that you can get your packages quicker. How selfish of you.
Click to expand...


Jimg try reading my OP again
 
(quoted from post at 11:12:22 05/27/21) By your comment, I take it that you assume that human drivers are texting, driving intoxicated, sleeping, on the
phone, or otherwise distracted?

Shall we start with the phone. Using a cell phone while driving a commercial vehicle is illegal unless it is
hands free. Same with texting. Alcohol limits are ZERO while driving a commercial vehicle. According to the
regulations, any detectable trace of alcohol in a driver's system is a mandatory 24 hours out of service. Drugs
in the system require entry into rehab (1st offense) or disqualification for 10 years.

So, any of the conditions you mention above are illegal to start with. Therefore, what you are saying is that a
driverless truck is inherently safer than a driver acting illegally.

I agree with that! What I do NOT agree with is the assumption that commercial drivers are inattentive, drunk, talking on phones, or are otherwise distracted from their duties.

This post was edited by jimg.allentown on 05/27/2021 at 01:29 pm.
Click to expand...

Jimg I have been what I consider a very safe commercial driver for many years. I made no such assumption as you claim. As usual try reading again.
 
I read your post several times before responding to it. There is no need to read it again. This seems to be your
stock answer. Maybe you should read it yourself.

Instead of saying that drivers ARE doing things like texting, drinking, et al, you say that driverless trucks are
NOT doing those things - as if to IMPLY that there are drivers out there texting, drinking, and whatever. As many
times as I can read it, it still IMPLIES that such things are going on - with the bright spot being that the self
driving truck is above all of those things.

I also was a safe driver of a large commercial vehicle for about 20 years and nearly 2 million miles. I pulled
53-foot trailers through all 5 boroughs of New York City. I've been just about everywhere there is to be east of
the Mississippi river. I doubt that there is more than 50 miles of road in New England that I have not driven
over. I had exactly ONE wreck in all of that time. The wreck was investigated by state and federal investigators
as well as two insurance companies and I was found not to be at fault by all of them. Not even 1% my fault.

In my time behind the wheel, I came to realize that pretty mush ALL drivers are competent, attentive, and
trustworthy in any critical situation. Granted, there are a few bad apples, but they usually get weeded out
pretty quickly. That is why I disagree with the way you worded that post. My opinion and that is the way most
folks would have read and interpreted your post.
 
(quoted from post at 04:41:38 05/28/21) I read your post several times before responding to it. There is no need to read it again. This seems to be your
stock answer. Maybe you should read it yourself.

Instead of saying that drivers ARE doing things like texting, drinking, et al, you say that driverless trucks are
NOT doing those things - as if to IMPLY that there are drivers out there texting, drinking, and whatever. As many
times as I can read it, it still IMPLIES that such things are going on - with the bright spot being that the self
driving truck is above all of those things.

I also was a safe driver of a large commercial vehicle for about 20 years and nearly 2 million miles. I pulled
53-foot trailers through all 5 boroughs of New York City. I've been just about everywhere there is to be east of
the Mississippi river. I doubt that there is more than 50 miles of road in New England that I have not driven
over. I had exactly ONE wreck in all of that time. The wreck was investigated by state and federal investigators
as well as two insurance companies and I was found not to be at fault by all of them. Not even 1% my fault.

In my time behind the wheel, I came to realize that pretty mush ALL drivers are competent, attentive, and
trustworthy in any critical situation. Granted, there are a few bad apples, but they usually get weeded out
pretty quickly. That is why I disagree with the way you worded that post. My opinion and that is the way most
folks would have read and interpreted your post.
Click to expand...

So your logic is because YOU were a good driver, there are no bad drivers, never have been and never will be.

Then you turn around and say "there are a few bad apples, but they USUALLY get weeded out pretty quickly."

That implies that some bad apples do not get weeded out, which is the truth. It can't be anything but. There are "bad apple" drivers out there.

There's a youtube channel "Ron Pratt" who operates a heavy tow business who's video of the week frequently showcases such bad apple drivers. That's just one area of one state out in the Midwest. Those drivers may get fired but they move on to the next job because firms are desperate for drivers, and the one that did the firing just can't bring themselves to blackball/badmouth/whatever the bad driver so they can't get a job. They will give the bad apple a glowing reference when the next employer calls, so the problem is just perpetuated.

The bad apples don't get weeded out until they kill someone. Then it's too late. Then all truck drivers get a black eye. That's how it works. If all Chevys are bad because you had a couple of issues with your pickup truck, what makes you think that the average person is going to think logically and rationally when the see a bad truck driver kill someone? Of course they're going to think all truck drivers are bad, and good luck trying to sway public opinion.
 
You are saying that my logic is that because I was a safe driver, there are no bad drivers.

I did not say that. You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

Then I say that there are a few bad apples. Yes, there are! But, since the introduction of CSA2010, they will be
weeded out more positively and aggressively. They will not have to (in your words) kill somebody to get weeded
out. In case you are unfamiliar with this program, here are some of the high points.

Every contact that a driver has will go on his permanent record. Whenever you cross a scale, get stopped for a
spot check, get stopped for any kind of violation, it also becomes part of that driver's record. That includes
equipment violations that were previously only held against the carrier. It does not matter what kind of
reference a carrier gives a driver. A carrier looking to hire a driver will be able to look at this applicant's
record and decide for themselves.

Previously, things like equipment violations, overweight, and the like were charged to the carrier, and the
driver walked away untouched by them. This system identifies careless or sloppy drivers very quickly. If you
don't do your proper pretrip and post trip inspections, it will come back to bite you. It just isn't like the
old days when a driver could go from one carrier to another with nothing following him.

I can't speak to your reference to the guy on YouTube, since I haven't seen him.

However, if you want to discuss, I'll be happy to oblige. Just don't put words in my mouth that I didn't say.
That isn't a discussion. That is just wrong.
 
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