Pto speeds

Please help me understand the difference between ground and engine speed pto and how they are used. Thanks...

I will copy a YT reply from 2004 that answers most of this:

Note that when the tractor is moving in reverse, the PTO will turn in the reverse direction if using ground speed PTO. This might damage some implements if they were not made to run in reverse PTO direction.
some tractors actually have ground speed ptos.. that were BEHIND the trans and simply ran at rear axle speed.. meaning they only turned when the rear wheels turned and did not change speed base on gears or rpm directly.. only on the turning of the rear wheels.. so the faster the wheels turned the faster the pto turned.. this is a GROUND SPEED pto.. if the tractor has the clutch in.. but it still rolling, the pto will turn.. if the trans is in netrual and the tractor is rolling with the engine cut off.. the pto will still turn on a ground speed pto..as its tied to the rear axles or output side of the trans.. so if the wheels turn, the pto turns...
MOST tractors have a pto that runs on input shaft of the transmission.. meaning that as long as the clutch was disengaged,, the pto would turn and its speed was based on engine rpms.. no matter which gear you picked,, even if you were in netrual.. as long as the clutch was out.. you have pto running... the tachometer showed a mark to run the pto at 540 rpms.. this is the most common type of pto.. but when you push the clutch in to shift, the pto stopped.. something you would not want to happen if your baleing hay,, if the hay gets thicker, you need to slow the tractor down, so you would gear down and both the above were not desireable..
I doubt if any modern tractors have ground speed PTO. The Massey Ferguson 35 (of 1962 vintage) had it. Probably all of the Ford 9N / 2N / 8N had it. There may been some PTO powered implements (back in the old days) that were supposed to use ground speed PTO so that when the tractor was moving faster, the PTO would spin faster. Maybe some kind of manure spreader or ????

Well, in a nut shell, ground speed PTO is connected to/driven by other driven gears in the tractor. The faster you drove, the faster the PTO runs. Your transmission gear controlled the speed. And yes, if in reverse, it would run PTO backwards.
Engine speed PTO, or live independent PTO is connected direct to engine (more than likely input shaft to transmission). Its speed is affected solely by engine RPMs.
My 74 235 massey ferguson has both on the same tractor. I think gear shift forward for ground speed, back for live. Been along time since I used the PTO. That's the onky tractor I have driven that had both.
Anyways, if you are using compatible equipment for the tractor, shouldn't be a problem. Running newer equipment that requires higher PTO RPMs might be a problem if trying to use them on an older tractor.

Hay rake.

MF tractors are the only ones I have seen that have a ground speed PTO it is geared to the transmission and runs at axel speed. The engine speed PTO setting on an MF tractor runs at 540 at the engine RPM noted on the tac. Another interesting item about MF industrials with the reverser is the engine speed PTO runs in reverse when the reverser is used. Some tractors have an actual engine speed PTO, the farmall cub for example, the PTO runs at actual engine RPM in reverse rotation to a normal PTO. I believe that on older Cats the shaft used to drive the cable winch runs at engine rpm (but I can't actually recall). I plead advanced age.

Ground speed pto is an unusual thing, it is not commonly used or available.

Can be handy with a pto powered hay rake. There are other unusual situations that folk have found a use for it. Special stuff.

Paul

Most all Fiat built tractors have ground speed PTO

When I was a kid we had 85 massey ferguson with mounted corn picker on it. I would plug the picker with fire bush (kochia) and slip the clutches . I simply put the tractor in ground PTO and transmission in reverse and unplugged it. Never left the seat. Absolutely the sweetest thing. We picked also with Farmall M and 2MH picker.Easy to guess which one I wanted to run based on the weed pressure we had in those days.

It can be handy to back up an implement, to unclog it by running it backwards.

Common on European designed tractors. Also common in Europe were power drive trailers that use the ground drive PTO to keep the wheel speeds matched.

My Massys have ground speed. It is great for running a post hole digger. If it gets stuck, put it in reverse and lock one brake. Backs the auger right out.

Some, though not all of the Ford Select O Speeds had ground drive PTO.

Deere also had an optional engine rpm PTO on the 30 series Dubuques and 440 industrials . It was used
To power an aftermarket trencher
.

MF 35 PTO picture.. ground PTO -- neutral -- engine PTO