Just sitting here thinking if a guy tore down an engine and everything looked good if he used a cylinder hone just to and used the old rings would they seat? And before all of the bad comments yes I know this is not the way to do it yes I know it would be already tore down might as well put new rings in it. Im just curious if people think the old rings with seat.
- Thread starter Old560
- Start date
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Simple answer is yes thing would be just fine. I did just that on my BA that I built years ago. Half Farmall B and half A
If you honed the cylinders ITS MY NON PROFESSIONAL MECHANICS OPINION YES the old rings would seat into the newly honed cylinders.
NO nasty comments from me, NO telling you what you already know and said, this is ONLY my opinion and others are welcome to theirs TO EACH THIER OWN OPINIONS.
Best wishes take care
John T
NO nasty comments from me, NO telling you what you already know and said, this is ONLY my opinion and others are welcome to theirs TO EACH THIER OWN OPINIONS.
Best wishes take care
John T
redforlife
Well-known Member
I wouldn't think you'd have any problems. I would want to remove the rings from the piston, and clean all the carbon out of the ring grooves in the piston, and put everything all back together nice and clean.
This is considering that the engine was torn down only for inspection, or an unrelated problem. And the pistons, sleeves, and rings all still measure out to within tolerances for wear.
If any of the wear tolerances are to much, then whatever problems you had before such as low compression, burning oil, etc, will still be there upon re-assembly.
This is considering that the engine was torn down only for inspection, or an unrelated problem. And the pistons, sleeves, and rings all still measure out to within tolerances for wear.
If any of the wear tolerances are to much, then whatever problems you had before such as low compression, burning oil, etc, will still be there upon re-assembly.
A friend gave me an old Gravely mower that had been sitting for almost 20 years, parked because its Yanmar 22 HP diesel had zero compression. I found the rings seized in the pistons, but cylinders in good shape. I used a dingleberry hone, installed new rings and gaskets, and it runs like a new one. At 5 hours there is still a puff of blue smoke at times, but I have no doubt it will do its job well.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
It would work however if it were me I would go ahead and put new rings in it. The rings get worn too.
rustred
Well-known Member
that is something i have tryed and so yes its a definite yes, tryed and true. when the crank broke on my 6.5 chevy i changed out the block with a used one from the auto wreaker.priced out new rings and they were 900.00 at the time about 20 years ago. measured the old rings in the bore and next to nothing for wear. truck had over 200,000 k on it. honed the cyl's and installed my pistons with old rings and that engine is still running. has 400,000 k on it now. also in the mid 1970's in mechanic's classes we tore down a 225 slant 6 cylinder engine to bare block. measured all components and put the engine back together with old brgs and rings. run engine on test stand all was good. then the next class would do the exact same thing. i for get how many times the instructor said these engines were apert and back together. everything had to be set to factory spec so that when he turned the key it would start right up which it did.
wrenchere85
Member
Sounds like a guy I knew, he was an automotive engineer. He rebuilt his Farmall A, than the next winter he tore it all back down and measured every thing for ware. Just because.
Dopp Creek
Member
Ring faces come in many shapes (barrel, taper) so that is quite a variable. The profile on the honed cylinder wall is very critical; if I remember right I think surface finish should be 15-25 micro-inches. If the surface finish is too rough, the rings will seat for a short while and then continue to wear and you are back to square one. If the finish is too smooth, you generate heat and the oil glazes the cylinder wall.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
More information would help.
Why was it disassembled? Is this a working engine or a show/parade application? Are new rings expensive/obsolete?
If the end gaps check out, the piston lands are in spec, and it was not smoking or fouling plugs before, they should be OK.
One thing to consider, if this is a modern automobile with catalytic converters, they are very sensitive to oil fouling. New converters are expensive and not as good as original equipment. Not worth taking a chance.
Why was it disassembled? Is this a working engine or a show/parade application? Are new rings expensive/obsolete?
If the end gaps check out, the piston lands are in spec, and it was not smoking or fouling plugs before, they should be OK.
One thing to consider, if this is a modern automobile with catalytic converters, they are very sensitive to oil fouling. New converters are expensive and not as good as original equipment. Not worth taking a chance.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
My opinion is that it totally depends on the condition of the old rings. The main factors are the amount of spring that they have to keep the ring out against the cylinder wall, end gap (an indicator of how worn they are), and the shape and level of wear on the sealing surface of the rings.
If an engine had been overheated at some time, the rings could have lost their tension, and would not seal well against the cylinder wall. If the end gap is too great, too much of the combustion gases would pass by the rings. If the ring faces were worn so that the original profile is lost, they might not work well for very long.
If an engine had been overheated at some time, the rings could have lost their tension, and would not seal well against the cylinder wall. If the end gap is too great, too much of the combustion gases would pass by the rings. If the ring faces were worn so that the original profile is lost, they might not work well for very long.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
This is meant all in good fun, but I noticed that you are acting as if just putting in new rings is the "right" way to go about it, so here goes my mock rant:
You wouldn't just do a ring job. That's the hack way to do it. The only way to do it is to do it right. New sleeves, pistons, and rings. Full machine shop service on the block and head. Turn and polish the crank. You've got it all apart, may as well do it right, right?
You wouldn't just do a ring job. That's the hack way to do it. The only way to do it is to do it right. New sleeves, pistons, and rings. Full machine shop service on the block and head. Turn and polish the crank. You've got it all apart, may as well do it right, right?
Dopp Creek
Member
I had an uncle that bought a ford 2000 in 1962. In 1968 this tractor developed an engine knock. This tractor had maybe 1500 hours on it. the Engine was torn down everything was looked at with the pistons pulled out. No honing was done old rings where reused. Only new gaskets were purchased. The tractor is still running fine today.
He never did know what the knock was about.
He never did know what the knock was about.
The first engine I ever worked on was a Brigs lawn mower engine. It got to using oil so bad Dad took it to shop to get fixed, Said it was beyond repair so he brought it home. I knew nothing about engines and dcided to see if I could figure out how it eas supposed to go together,Got that figured out and then decided to see if it would start, supprised me. Ended up using that mower for several years with NO NEW parts befor selling it. When I first looked at pistons all ring gaps were in line, I just thought that did not look right so I spaced them out equal and no more oil usage and ran so good we kept using for several years. Shop could have lined up the rings corectly but decided it was beyond repair. That was close to 60 years ago. So yes old rings can be reused with good results.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
I'm surprised it worked for everybody else! It didn't work for me. The engine used oil same as before! Wasted my time!
Probably a piece of carbon on top of a piston. Friend of mine had is motor home towed home from Canada because it started knocking. Pulled the head off on the side that he had heard the knock on, he could see where the carbon had been, put the head back on, no more knock. I have seen it on a couple engines in the past.
casecollectorsc
Well-known Member
- Location
- E central SD.
Yes, it will work just fine. Do a head job and run it...have done it several times.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
I could see doing it this way if the engine was lightly stuck and the rings are slightly stuck so you could get them off the piston without breaking and you just want it to run when you are done. All you would have for expense is the head gasket, maybe a valve gasket and a pan gasket. If you want to be real cheap you could goop up the pan and valve cover gaskets and reuse them if the gaskets did not go to pieces. That way you can let the next guy (maybe you) clean up the mess when it comes back apart later.
Rich'sToys
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern MN
I agree. Looks to me like it was a hypothetical question.
After honing the cylinder the least you could do is install new rings. Once you are that deep into an engine rings are cheap, I would question reusing the pistons unless they just looked good and measured out to spec.
As to the old rings seating - depends on their condition and what the engine has gone through. As mentioned below if the engine has been run hot (reason for the the cylinder glaze) the rings are probably pretty marginal. If they show obvious wear and the end gap isn't coming out right replace them. If they still have the correct tension and the rings were measured correctly when new (fair assumption if the engine has never been opened up) the end gap should be correct - if its too narrow then the springs have lost their tension and it will probably start burning oil after a few hours - if not immediately.
As to the old rings seating - depends on their condition and what the engine has gone through. As mentioned below if the engine has been run hot (reason for the the cylinder glaze) the rings are probably pretty marginal. If they show obvious wear and the end gap isn't coming out right replace them. If they still have the correct tension and the rings were measured correctly when new (fair assumption if the engine has never been opened up) the end gap should be correct - if its too narrow then the springs have lost their tension and it will probably start burning oil after a few hours - if not immediately.
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