2140 Starts

rusty6 · Nov 26, 2022

The new fuel injectors have cleaned up the smokey idle that the JD 2140 had but it has not shown any significant improvement in cold starting. Tried starting it at 40 degrees yesterday and no go until I'd plugged in the block heater and battery charger for a half hour or more. The old Massey Perkins still starts better. Might have to investigate that hydraulic pump destroke option that I've heard about. Or a second battery.

JD 2140

M-MAN · Nov 27, 2022

Try rocking the steering wheel back and forth when cranking. That will relieve the pressure also.

showcrop · Nov 27, 2022

Sounds like crank speed to me.

Blackhole49 · Nov 27, 2022

Jim.ME · Nov 27, 2022

x2 on rocking the steering wheel to unload the pump as a first check. Does the starter seem to drag a bit when warm? Try rocking the steering wheel at that time as well to relieve the pump and see if cranking speed increases.

Where is the battery ground cable connected? Still to the sheet metal? (Recommended to move the connection to a bolt on the engine if it is.) Check battery voltage at the battery and at the starter solenoid while at rest and again while cranking? Battery voltage after cranking, before engine starting/charging? Have you cleaned connections at both ends of the battery cables? A few things it could be are a weak battery, bad ground through sheet metal, bad cable internally, or high starter draw.

Compression could be down a bit. Did you adjust the valves while you had the hood off to do the injector work?

rusty6 · Nov 27, 2022

Thanks for the comments. Will try to answer them all in one. Tried the steering wheel trick numerous times with no visible results. Cranking speed is low but so is the Massey and old 730 Case yet they both start fine at low cranking speed (on a single battery). This 2140 has a fairly new, less than 2 years old, starter. Ground cable goes down to solid cast iron below the battery case. The battery is less than a year old. Group 31 with 1190 cranking amps so its a better battery than both the other tractors put together. Its also a smaller engine, 239 ci versus a 267 in the 730 and 300 in the Perkins/Massey. No, did not think of checking the valves. I wonder about injection pump timing possibly too far advanced. Have not done a voltage check at the starter when cranking but plan to.

JIM MN · Nov 27, 2022

Rock steering wheel, but go from 9:00 or so to 3:00 hand position on wheel.. Need to open valve to dump oil to relieve pressure..

Steve in IL · Nov 27, 2022

We have a very similar 2240. Same single group 31 battery. Same cold starting challenges. Not a big issue to us, because we only use it for mowing. It used to have the original twin (parallel) smaller batteries and started a bit better, but never as good as other tractors. Is there a modern gear reduction starter option for this tractor? It sure seems like cranking speed is the issue. Keep us posted with what you find.

MARK ROBKE · Nov 27, 2022

Well I have started many hundreds of unheated truck engines, as well as my own tractors and some for a place I worked at, in cold weather, and I would never give up after 5 seconds of cranking when it was cranking as well as your tractor was doing. I also saw white smoke which indicates to me a little more cranking would have started it. Try cranking for 30-40 seconds before giving up, and see what it does. If it continues to crank at that rpm, and you feel the starter and battery connections with your bare hand (warm is OK-after all it is working to crank a cold engine), it is ok. As long as the cranking RPM is remaining the same steady speed, you are not hurting anything. And always run the engine for a good while to recharge the batteries. If no start, wait one minute and try again. But I think it will start after 30 seconds. I still believe preheating with a block heater is best though, but sometimes that does not happen. And I also believe in the lightest whiff of ether below 30*, especially when it HAS to start.
Lastly, please open the shed door before you try to start it. Mark.

J.Wondergem · Nov 27, 2022

A company that I worked for changed to synthetic oil every fall. Never plugged anything in, cause it cost too much. That was their idea. Every spring they changed the oil back. Seem to work. I always plugged mine in.

rusty6 · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 07:43:31 11/27/22) I still believe preheating with a block heater is best though, but sometimes that does not happen. And I also believe in the lightest whiff of ether below 30*, especially when it HAS to start.
Lastly, please open the shed door before you try to start it. Mark.

Yes, plugging in the block heater in cold weather is standard procedure here in cold weather. But 40 degrees? I think it should be able to fire up at that temp in a few turns. Most of my diesel experience indicates if they don't show signs of firing up in the first few turns, they are not going to start. We were having problems even back in September during harvest if the temp was a bit cool. If the cranking speed is low ether does not help much. Just kicks back against the starter which is hard on everything.

GordoSD · Nov 27, 2022

Try four or five very short cranks. Many systems deliver a voltage spike as the starter begins to disengage. I had a SMTA that would only fire the moment you quit cranking it.

Tx Jim · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 12:33:14 11/27/22)
Try four or five very short cranks. Many systems deliver a voltage spike as the starter begins to disengage. I had a SMTA that would only fire the moment you quit cranking it.

Diesel engines such as this 2140 possesses & gasoline engines such as a SMTA require much different starting procedures.

I also suggest to check the 2140 inj pump timing & cylinder head rocker arm clearances.

MARK ROBKE · Nov 27, 2022

As you know, a diesel fires when the cylinder temperature is warm enough to ignite the fuel mixture.
Compressing the air in the cylinder raises the temperature. Continuously cranking for 30 seconds will
raise the cylinder temperature the fastest, even at slower cranking speeds. I agree it should start
easily at 40*. But I would not stop cranking after only 5 seconds, unless the battery was failing quick.
Your tractor was just getting settled in to a steady cranking speed. I timed your video, and I believe
it would have started, with more cranking.
All that being said, the biggest reason to plug in a block heater is not just making the engine easier
to start, but also to prevent wear on the engine. Smoke is unburnt fuel, and raw fuel washes lubrication
off the cylinder walls. A lot of cranking will result in raw fuel in the cylinder-it will probably
start, but there will be wear and tear.
The reason a whiff of ether is Ok is because it reduces cranking time. Using ether works better if it
gets to vaporize-use a warm can, not a 30* can. And the farther away from the intake, going thru the air
filter-all helps to vaporize the ether. Mark.

buickanddeere · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 23:11:22 11/26/22) The new fuel injectors have cleaned up the smokey idle that the JD 2140 had but it has not shown any significant improvement in cold starting. Tried starting it at 40 degrees yesterday and no go until I'd plugged in the block heater and battery charger for a half hour or more. The old Massey Perkins still starts better. Might have to investigate that hydraulic pump destroke option that I've heard about. Or a second battery.

What do you mean second battery ? There is supposed
To be two batteries in there .
Cranking speed is everything .
Use a de-stroker instead of being a ding a ling steering wheel flipper .
Have you done the battery ground update .
Plugging in a block heater below 40F is normal with a open combustion chamber diesel of that era .
A Delco MT38 or MT39 gear reduction starter has far
More power than the puny factory 3.0Kw starter
.

rusty6 · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 11:17:28 11/27/22)

You must have missed the part where I mentioned two other older diesels I have start with one battery. I'll agree that cranking speed helps but if you heard how slow that old Perkins Massey turned, and started on the second turn, you'll see why I expect better from this John Deere.

Click to expand...

buickanddeere · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 14:20:27 11/27/22)

(quoted from post at 11:17:28 11/27/22)

You must have missed the part where I mentioned two other older diesels I have start with one battery. I'll agree that cranking speed helps but if you heard how slow that old Perkins Massey turned, and started on the second turn, you'll see why I expect better from this John Deere.

Click to expand...

Let s start comparing everything between the Massey and the Deere .
I could install batteries , cables,
Destroker and a starter to make the Deere cold start where the Massey would only wheeze .
Are you hold the clutch pedal down while cranking ? Have you converted the Deere battery ground to the proper location .
Just the grounding and cleaning/freeing up the starter internals make a noticeable difference on my 1640 .

Click to expand...

rusty6 · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 11:46:36 11/27/22) [

Let s start comparing everything between the Massey and the Deere .
I could install batteries , cables,
Destroker and a starter to make the Deere cold start where the Massey would only wheeze .
Are you hold the clutch pedal down while cranking ? Have you converted the Deere battery ground to the proper location .
Just the grounding and cleaning/freeing up the starter internals make a noticeable difference on my 1640 .

I'd say this 2140 has a long history of poor cold starting. Previous owner had two new ground cables on it and two batteries but it still didn't start good once the temp got cooler. I replaced the starter with a new one. Also a new alternator. Replaced the two older smaller batteries with one big group 31. Installed a relay to the starter. The battery cables have been off and cleaned so many times.
Yes, clutch pedal is always pushed in when I try starting. I don't see the 2140 ever being as good at starting as the Massey which is almost 20 years older and likely more hours on the whole tractor.
Its not like this is a huge problem for me. As long as I have a little time on the block heater that JD will fire up as good as any. Its mostly the in between seasons when its cool but not cold enough to plug in the heater when problems arise.

buickanddeere · Nov 27, 2022

(quoted from post at 14:58:27 11/27/22)

(quoted from post at 11:46:36 11/27/22) [

Let s start comparing everything between the Massey and the Deere .
I could install batteries , cables,
Destroker and a starter to make the Deere cold start where the Massey would only wheeze .
Are you hold the clutch pedal down while cranking ? Have you converted the Deere battery ground to the proper location .
Just the grounding and cleaning/freeing up the starter internals make a noticeable difference on my 1640 .

Click to expand...

I'd say this 2140 has a long history of poor cold starting. Previous owner had two new ground cables on it and two batteries but it still didn't start good once the temp got cooler. I replaced the starter with a new one. Also a new alternator. Replaced the two older smaller batteries with one big group 31. Installed a relay to the starter. The battery cables have been off and cleaned so many times.
Yes, clutch pedal is always pushed in when I try starting. I don't see the 2140 ever being as good at starting as the Massey which is almost 20 years older and likely more hours on the whole tractor.
Its not like this is a huge problem for me. As long as I have a little time on the block heater that JD will fire up as good as any. Its mostly the in between seasons when its cool but not cold enough to plug in the heater when problems arise.

Ground cables are bolted on where ?
A high pressure oil leak , not unusual for a 40+ year old loader tractor . Normal to use the de-stroker in cold weather .
Is the closed centre loader valve leaking oil to the return line . Not unusual for a valve or an O ring failure .

Texasmark · Nov 28, 2022

I may have missed it but nobody mentioned low compression a first question I have. Secondly having 80% of full battery voltage across the body of the starter....inlet hot terminal to starter case...is second in importance on any machine. BTDT

Texasmark · Nov 28, 2022

....voltage measurements made while cranking.

2140 Starts

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