Help ! Ford 8n No spark !

stoney459

New User
:roll: Hi I was wondering if someone has an idea on my moms Tractor it a 1949 8n with a Positive ground 6 volt system ! I have replaced the coil and it looks like a so called Mechanic put in points! I have also replaced the wiring harness that was burnt. It's 100% Connected correctly ! How ever after all that.... She still will not get spark to the plugs the points are getting it but not to the Plugs ??? The coil also did I hook it up right the positive side of the coil goes to the points right? I switched it around to see but still nothing !!
Can you Help Me ?? Thanks to all !
 
Are the points set correctly? I beleive it 0.015" for a front mount and 0.025 " for a side mount.Do you have a front mount distributor or a side mount? Is the timing correct? If you have a front mount there is a spring under the cap that needs to be stretched to have the correct contact. ALso make sure that the insulator that carries the primary circuit through the points is not cracked and the copper strip is not broken.
Most of the Ford N experts reside at the N Forum so you might get a quicker and better answer there.
 
(quoted from post at 13:48:40 07/27/08) Are the points set correctly? I beleive it 0.015" for a front mount and 0.025 " for a side mount.Do you have a front mount distributor or a side mount? Is the timing correct? If you have a front mount there is a spring under the cap that needs to be stretched to have the correct contact. ALso make sure that the insulator that carries the primary circuit through the points is not cracked and the copper strip is not broken.
Most of the Ford N experts reside at the N Forum so you might get a quicker and better answer there.

Thanks Jerry... The points may be grounding out like you say ! the Dist is a side mount. When I say she won't fire I pulled a plug out putting it near a clean part of the frame and still no spark. I had adjusted the point to .015 still nothing. Do you think if I chance the points it will help. Since it's a positive ground.. I need to make sure there are installed correctly??? To my knowledge the so called Mech did not touch the timing.
So?? Tell me more about the points>> I have a feeling its them.. Tx van
 
I would try another rotor and a condenser. Hal
PS: Pull the big coil wire from the distributor cap and hold it near a good ground while someone snaps those points open and closed a few times and see if there's fire from the coil wire. Your ignition switch needs to be on too.
 
Stoney, this is more then you need but if you take the time to work through it the cause of no spark ought to be found.


TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark?????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!!!!!!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.


MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK


1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,,,,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.


2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test.

3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,,,,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,,,,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,,,,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,,,,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,,,,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,,,,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,,,,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,,,,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,,,,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,,,,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,,,,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are badddddddddddd. Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.


John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.
 
Ok you say the distributor is side mount. So that clears up a few thing because side mount and front mount trouble shoot different. Side mount you set the points at 0.025. Now after you get the points set correctly turn on the key, take the center wire off the cap. Hold it close to the block. Open and close the points by hand. Do you get a spark from the coil wire when you do that?? If you do then you have either a bad cap or rotor, if you don't then the points are dirty or they have not power to them. Also when you open and close the points by hand you should get a spark there and hear a snap as you open them up. Oh one more thing it can not be a 1949 8N if its side mount because they did not make them till mid 1950
Hobby farm
 
"She still will not get spark to the plugs the points are getting it but not to the Plugs ???"

The opening of the points causes the voltage buildup within the coil to collapse thereby raising the voltage which produces the spark.

If the coil is producing a spark but it is not getting to the plugs it is in the distribution system. Coil wire/distributor cap/rotor/plug wires.

Is the coil wire in good condition and seated firmly in both the coil and the distributor cap?

Is the rotor in good condition and making contact with the cap pickup and with the end not worn sufficiently to prevent contact with each plug wire tower?

Are the plug wire tower contacts within the cap corroded over such that would prevent movement of the voltage? Sometime they corrode over and in a pinch the corrosion can be scraped off in order to make contact.

Are all of the plug wires seated fully and in good condition?

Back to the points---is the rub block which makes contact with the cam too worn to open and close the points? Are the points closing when off of the cam high? And of course opening the required distance when on a high? I assume that the capacitor is of the correct microfarad rating in order to prevent point burn, meaning are the contacts in good condition and not burned away?

In addition--the point set needs to be installed correctly to function properly. One error in general was placing the spring and capacitor wire terminal in the wrong position creating extra pressure on the point spring.

As you can probably tell from my post this is generic point/distributor information instead of specific to the 8N.
 
the way i read this is that you pulled a plug out and held it next to a clean spot on the block.The plug must be grounded to the block for it to spark
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:16 07/27/08) the way i read this is that you pulled a plug out and held it next to a clean spot on the block.The plug must be grounded to the block for it to spark
Thanks Guys Wow Great Help I really want to Thank everyone of you! Keeping my mind going. I am in the hunt for parts Cap, Rotor, points and plug and coil wires. Oh ya Spark plugs too. I will try the manual opening and closing of the points holding the coil wire to see if I get a snap. Just one other question please ! The coil wires, does the Neg or pos go to the Distributor ? Thanks Again Van Stone
 
Tell us the "rest of the story"!

A 1948 8N uses a "square-can" coil attached to the top of the distributor, with only ONE accessable peimary connection. Since it sounds as if your's has TWO primary connections, it is either a newer "side-mount distributor" motor or someone has gutted out the square-can coil, and set it up for connections to a "round-can" automotive coil.
 
If the tractor battery is Neg grounded the coils - goes to the distributor but if its Pos grounded then the coils + wires to the distributor. THIS (and my Troubleshooting procedure below) IS OF COURSE IF YOU HAVE A COIL WITH TWO ACCESSIBLE TERMINALS

John T
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top