Batteries

Has anyone found significant advantages for using the Optima gel batteries over standard lead-acid?
How about the deep cycle on farm tractors? I am now using the standard Interstate lead-acid because they are still refillable. So many battery manufacturers have switched to the no-maintenance type.
Any ideas?
Thanks

What is wrong with the no maintenance batterys in tractors?

That is all I use from the MTA clear up to the mx200. I have not put water in a battery for 20 years.

Gary

A problem with gel batteries isa that if they are to set with no activity for three or for months they will NOT dischsarge. The electric mobility batteries would show a full charge but would not move the cart. Replaced them and the cart worked good all summer. Same thing again the next spring. Replaced with deep cycle marine batteries which are still working after eight years. Gel batteries are not cheap.
John

There is nothing more cost-effective than an old-fashioned FLA (flooded lead acid battery). The AGM batteries have one advantage - they don't have free liquid - so they can be tipped over, air-shipped, etc. That small advantage does not offset the high price, and sometimes - short life.

If you can fit a car/truck battery into your tractor - you're better off than with a commercial/ag. battery because you get a much better warranty.

In regard to deep cycle batteries - they work fine - but . . . pound for pound, they offer less cranking amps but more reserve. I've got several diesel tractors that - ever winter - I put my summertime RV deep-cycle batteries into - and they've been fine. Some are 10 years old.
Just remember that many batteries sold as "Deep Cycle" are not true, deep cycle batteries - especially the 12 volt versions. A true, cost-effective deep cycle is something like the Trojan T-105 - which many companies now copy and compare themselves to.

I like my Optima 6-volt battery in my H because it has more cranking amps than a regular type battery for the size - I believe it's rated at 800 CCA and 1000 amps at 32 degrees F. It literally turns my H over like a 12 volt battery would.

Also, it's small and lightweight and doesn't leak so I can easily use it to start my 51 IH pickup, W-9, etc. without much fuss. AND, it sits for about 4 months through the winter without being used and has always started the tractor right up in the spring - no discharge problems.



I also have an Optima battery in my car - for the size it has more CCA than a conventional lead-acid battery and starts the car more quickly. I also noticed with the lead-acid battery that the lights would dim quite a bit at a stoplight with the AC on, now we don't notice the lights dimming at all. The Optima just plain has more capacity in a similar size.

http://optimabatteries.com/optima_edge/technical_specs.php

Doug, I run optima "Red Top"s" in two tractors and two pickups. Advantage in the tractors is that I got rid of the dual batterys in both, one IH 1086 and a JD 8640. The pickups, personal choice I guess, lots of reserve for cold weather starts. One of these is our feeding truck. It has been known to get a bit chilly in eastern MT. in jan. Ken

Thank you for posting that. Just last night I was offered a (free) pair of almost new deep cycle batteries. Didn't know how well they'd work.

Destined for my motorgrader and a small tractor, both batteries ready for replacement. No idea of brand, but the deep cycles were original equipment in an Airstream.

We are going to the grp 31 batteries that are in my peterbilt. They seem to have much less corosion than with the lead post type. Also they're cheap since not all of them are bad when I change them. The bolt on top is easy as the clamp is not all deformed from over tightening. Cleaning has all but disappeared.

I use standard, low maintenance lead acid batteries in everything I own. I see no advantage of a high priced gel cell battery. Lead acid batteries never need fluid put in them, unless you have a charging system problem that "boils" the battery from overcharging. A lot of times people buy a bigger battery than they really need to over compensate for a poorly maintenance electrical/starting system.
Jim

I use standard, low maintenance lead acid batteries in everything I own. I see no advantage of a high priced gel cell battery. Lead acid batteries never need fluid put in them, unless you have a charging system problem that "boils" the battery from overcharging. A lot of times people buy a bigger battery than they really need to over compensate for a poorly maintenance electrical/starting system.
Jim

A few more general comments. Any good deep cycle battery, when compared to a standard cranking battery of equal weight - will have about 80% of the instant cranking capacity and much more reserve. That means it can crank longer.

Keep in mind also - that when it comes to battery warranties - they don't mean much unless you've got a local dealer that stocks them. All the companies charge shipping for warranty - if a dealer does not stock. This makes many warranties kind of useless. It's also a good reason to buy a local automotive battery - cheap - with a 5 or 7 year warranty - when possible.

Keep in mind that many battery companies market their batterys by cold cranking amps, or just "cranking amps" which is different. But, usually, when a battery is built to give more cranking amps - it sacrifices reserve - or - how LONG it can crank. I.e., they "rob Peter to pay Paul." It's kind of a scam in many cases. Best way to compare is by battery weight - that will tell you a lot.

In the situation with absorbed glass mat batteries - (AGM) - to me, it's mostly hype and overpricing. Much of my experience has been with large battery banks for solar electric use. Also with RVs and - I have over 30 tractors and 12 cars and diesel trucks. Dollar for dollar, AGMs are just-about-always a losing proposition - often - over time - costing more than twice as much as old-fashioned FLA batteries (those with liquid acid).

Now - with the Optima "spiral cell" AGM batteries? Look at the price, warranty, and actualy battery specs. Many dealers don't post all the specs - just the cold cranking amps.

Here is one example of an Optima 6 volt compared to a Trojan 6 volt battery. With the Trojan, you get twice the battery as less cost - and the Trojans usually last 7-10 years.

Redtop 6 volt - Part #: 6V-850 $165 on sale, $200 list price.
Voltage: 6V, 800 cold cranking amps, Reserve Capacity: 110 minutes.
Dimensions: 10"L x 3 9/16"W x 7 13/16"H
12 month replacement warrany, and 3 year total prorated warranty.

Trojan 6 volt, Part # T-105, $115 on sale, $135 list price. This is a GC2 type battery.
Voltage: 6V, cold cranking amps not rated, but tested at 1200. Reserve capacity is 447 minutes (four times the higher priced Optima).
220 amp hours.
Dimensions: 10 3/8” L X 7 1/8” W X 10 11/16” H
12 month replacement warrany, and 3 year total prorated warranty.

I have found no real advantage to gel cells.
DO NOT USE A DEEP CYCLE BATTERY FOR A STARTING APPLICATION- it's not made for that, it doesn't have the cranking amps needed for that application. Deep cycles are made to allow for a long, continuous low draw...like lights in a motorhome or a trolling motor on a boat. For starting, you want a battery that will dump all its juice at once to the starter...

I have one in my 135 and my charging system will not work. I just charge the battery once a month or twice if used a lot. Been using it for 2 years and it was used when I got it.

Deep cycle batteries work fine for starting as long as you size them properly. I've been using them for 40 years - swapping from RVs to tractors and trucks. A true deep cycle battery has around 20% less instant cranking capacity over a standard cranking battery - but will crank much longer.

Many batteries sold today as "deep cycle" are actually hydrids and intended for cranking and deep-draw use - e.g. the 12 volt deep cycle batteries that Walmart sells.

I only paid $135 for my Optima 6-volt about three years ago, I think I paid $120 for the Optima 12-volt in my car...

As for being worth it? I don't know at this point as I've only had them a few years. If I'm still running the same batteries 7 years from now or more I'll be darn pleased... actually, I'm already pleased with the 6-volt as the conventional batteries I was running before would only last two years or so due to not being used in the winter. This one's already got three years gone by so I'm money ahead already.

I have considerable experience with AGM batteries and can only say the best for them. They can be completely discharged and still be recharged manyt time. I had 6-grp30 AGMs as house batteries on my boat for 7 years and never once had a problem I also had a bank of gel ells but has a separate charger for them because they charge at 13.9 . to little or too much will shorten the lives of gel cells. The AGM (I have Optimas in my cars) will more than twice outlast regular batteries. Mine were 12 years old when I sold the boat and still going strong. My Advice, spend the extra for the best. US military only uses AGMs, Henry

I started using the Optima battery soon after the were first available. The 16 trucks I was servicing used group 24 side post batteries. Due to the severe service, the average life of the battery was about 12 months. After installing the Optima battery I only had a couple of failures before the trucks were taken out of service at about five years old. These batteries were subjected to severe vibration being mounted to the frame directly above the front axle. These engines were being started up to 120 times a day.

Stating that the US military uses the AGMs does not prove a thing. I can give you a long list of materials the US military uses that are far from the most durable and/or cost-effective. 6.2 and 6.5 GM diesels in Humvees is one of many examples.

I've got no doubt that some people do well with AGMs in certain applications. But - usually their cost is double that of a conventional flooded lead acid battery. I have seen many AGM failures in battery banks with solar electric systems. That because they are very intolerant to high charge rates. And, battery banks need to be overcharged once in awhile to "equalize" the batteries. Generally - for that type of use they are a losing proposition. Of all the failues I've seen, the banks were changed over to Trojan or Rolls/Surette FLA conventional batteries and did much better with less cost. I've got a bank of Rolls batteries here that are on their 12 year and still working fine.

The AGMs have advantages - especially in high vibration areas. But, they certainly do not outperform FLA batteries in all situations. And, at twice the price - they'd only be worth it if they were twice as good.

As to some posts claiming some conventional batteries only lasting a year? Those are anomolies. I can give many other anomolies to the converse and I've had many car batteries last 7-8 years. The OEM battery in my 92 Dodge Cummins-diesel truck lasted 11 years.

Actually, it is gel cells, not AGM that are intollerat of over charging. Gel cells must have a charge not exceeding 13.9 and not less that 13.8 to obtain the best use. AGM's are tolerant up to and including 14,8 which is highly unusual. They can be left discharged for a whole year and not lose their ability to be fully charged.The military is not always perfect but they test the daylites out of most stuff like batteries. They have less failures than most. Henry

My truck battery lasted 8.5 years.Frozen cell on a cold morning.Gel cell batteries will not accept a charge if left in a dead state.I repair fence chargers that use gel cell batteries.I wont keep gc batteries on hand because they will fail on the shelf if they are not checked and charged.Sealed lead acid batteries I avoid because I cant use a hydrometer to check battery condition.My tractor batteries go for 5 years on average.