way ot, electrical question.

kyplowboy · Jan 4, 2009

Ok I have been hearing this for a while now and need some of the smart folks on here to make my simple mind understand it. There are several public service adds on TV now days saying you should unplug your cell phone chargers while not use'n them. How does a cell phone charger use power with out being pluged into a phone? (Mine does not have the red light that shows it's pluged into the wall)

Thanks

Dave

Jake R. · Jan 4, 2009

We just had this topic come up at work in an effort to save energy at the plant. Evidently, most electronic devices like this have a transistor in them that consume energy even if they are not plugged into the device that they supply power to.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 4, 2009

It is not just your cell phone charger, many things in your house use electricity when not in use, TVs, Radio, gas and electric ranges, telephone answering machines, computers, GFCI's to name a few. It is called phantom load. Many electrical applianecs spin the elect meter even when not in use.

Jim H SW-PA · Jan 4, 2009

all you have to do to check if it is using power when not charging is feel it I'm sure you will find it warmer to the touch than something the same density in the room.

Bus Driver · Jan 4, 2009

Every charger has a transformer in it. Energized transformers draw some power even if not supplying any device.

buicanddeere · Jan 4, 2009

Unless you have a hundred electronic devices in you home and use nothing else. These wee tiny little phantom loads amount to a few cents on every power bill. Not $20-$30 a months.
If your power is supplied strictly from a borderline sized off grid solar or similar system. Then yes a couple of dozen electronic items on standby for a month will partially discharge the batteries.
The issue is when added up nationally. A few billion of standby loads in homes and businesses use a couple of power plants worth of energy. In fall, winter and spring it isn't an issue as the "wasted energy" help heat the building.
Just like energy efficient lamps save "nothing" from your hydro bill compared to incandescent lamps during the heating season.

T_Bone · Jan 4, 2009

Hi Dave,

I've just been researching using lithium rechargeable battery's and found newer may not always be better.

It seams the lithium battery is very sensitive to discharge/recharge currents and heat thus are causing allot of fires.

The group that seam to be effected the most was RC planes and cars as even the recharger mfg suggest that lithium recharges should be watched for over charging and do NOT recharge while your sleeping.

T_Bone

John B. · Jan 4, 2009

There are two circuits normally in any charger. The one that plugs into the outlet is the primary and is not switched so it will continue to let elcetricity flow thru it. The secondary is the hooked to the plug that fits in your cell phone.

It's just like the electrical transformer on the pole or on the ground that is hooked to your house. There is primary voltage on the city's side all the time and your side is the secondary voltage. The city supplies electricity to their side constantly if you use any in your house or not, but it's always there. Your side goes thru your meter and measures how much you use.

In our home any charger or power supply not being used is unplugged or it is plugged to a receptacle that is wired to a wall swicth.

It's convenient to keep them plugged in because it keeps me from bending down to the receptacle but as you know conveniences cost you money in one form or another.

relaurain · Jan 4, 2009

Every transformer you have plugged in for your computer is sucking down energy too.

JDemaris · Jan 4, 2009

To be simple, it goes like this. In the USA and Canada, price is everything to the average consumer. So, AC to DC power supplies are low priced and never shut themselves off -regardless if you are using them, or not. If they are plugged in, they use some power. Often referred to as "phantom loads."

In most parts of Europe, more expensive power supplies are used that shut themselves completely off when there is no demand for charging - even if left plugged in all the time.

MarkB_MI · Jan 4, 2009

Touch just about any converter and you'll notice that it's warm. That heat is coming out of your pocket. No, it's not much, but when you multiply it times the number of converters in the typical house, then multiply that time the number of houses in the country, it's a significant amount of wasted power.

In case you want to get technical as to what's going on: Any idle transformer is an almost purely inductive load. So there is current traveling through it, but almost no energy is used because the current is ninety degrees out of phase with voltage. ALMOST ninety degrees, that is. There is enough resistance in the transformer to generate heat. Heat is also generated in your house wiring as well as the power companies distribution line. That's where the power goes.

guido · Jan 4, 2009

Hello T_Bone.
You are right, heat will effect lithium batteries more so then any older NiCad.
The RC battery packs for racing cars are subC cell packs of 6 cells, pulse /reflex chargers are the type of chargers used and the are set to go off as soon as the battery pack voltage starts to drop.They are set to shut off charging when the voltage falls at .02 volts.
Guido.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 4, 2009

All battery chargers should watched.They start many fires.

Lesformore · Jan 4, 2009

I know of a situation where a janitor was removing fluorescent tubes from light fixtures in an effort to save power. He didn't know that the fixture uses power if the switch is on no matter if the tubes are in or not. There are ballasts (transformers)in the fixture that are powered as soon as the switch is turned on.

Lesformore · Jan 4, 2009

I know of a situation where a janitor was removing fluorescent tubes from light fixtures in an effort to save power. He didn't know that the fixture uses power if the switch is on no matter if the tubes are in or not. There are ballasts (transformers)in the fixture that are powered as soon as the switch is turned on.

Lesformore · Jan 4, 2009

I know of a situation where a janitor was removing fluorescent tubes from light fixtures in an effort to save power. He didn't know that the fixture uses power if the switch is on no matter if the tubes are in or not. There are ballasts (transformers)in the fixture that are powered as soon as the switch is turned on.

barn E · Jan 4, 2009

LesforMore, removing the tubes in a fluorescent lamp probably reduces current about 98 percent. As electrician I had to do this many times, following up on complaint of breaker trips because of too many fixtures on circuit. It will stop the tripping until you can rewire. Years ago I disputed this until seeing it in use.

buicanddeere · Jan 5, 2009

Don't be so lazy, open the fixture and isolate the supply.
Running a ballast 24/7 in open circuit condition with it going to max voltage trying to strike an arc across no-existent tubes? =sizzle.
Having to install new ballasts is a strange way to save energy.

way ot, electrical question.

kyplowboy

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Jake R.

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Anonymous-0

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Jim H SW-PA

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Bus Driver

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buicanddeere

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T_Bone

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John B.

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relaurain

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JDemaris

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MarkB_MI

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guido

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Anonymous-0

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Lesformore

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Lesformore

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Lesformore

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barn E

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