The Experiment

MarkB_MI · Feb 3, 2009

This morning I posted (without comment) a link to a Reuters article on wind energy. I thought folks would find it interesting, but I was curious as to how long it would take to turn into a political discussion. Y'all didn't disappoint me: very quickly the political posts came out, although the discussion remained genteel.

What did surprise me was how quickly it was deleted! I've said before that it's up to our hosts to decide what posts stay and go, but this thread disappeared in less than six hours, and I didn't see a single objectionable post in it.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 3, 2009

You must have blinked and missed the one a few minutes ago........ Could it be the "Poofers" are libs that forgot to pay their taxes??????

Just a thought

Dave

[color=red:43099ab3ae][b:43099ab3ae][size=24:43099ab3ae]POOF!!!![/size:43099ab3ae][/b:43099ab3ae][/color:43099ab3ae]

John S-B · Feb 3, 2009

Mark, I missed the link. Can you repost that link? I'd like to see what it has to say.

JDemaris · Feb 3, 2009

Although this is not a good place to get heavy into politics - the hype used to promote alternative engergy IS often politically motivated. And, when taxes get involved, it affects us all.

I'd be the last person to gripe about real progress, regardless if on a private or government level. I've got solar and wind electric power at my house - and suspect many on these forums do not. I cost me more than what I originally paid for my home.

The point I tried to make about the link you posted is - it's all hype as written. That does not mean the idea of pursuing alternative engergy is bad in itself. It means the people promoting it, and the way it's being presented is - pure BS.

We in the USA are barely making 2% of our electric power via alternaive means. Spain sometimes make 50%. Germany is not far behind. So, for someone to claim that we are overtaking them is simply rediculous and very misleading. I'd rather see someone write the truth and maybe, get some people motivated for the correct reasons.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 3, 2009

Some of the folks around here have their barn roofs covered with solar panels. Idea is to generate their electricity and sell the excess back to the power company. don't know if they profit. Quite a few windmills also. Scads of them farther no.

Dave

olgentdc · Feb 3, 2009

I liked all what was said about Wind Energy and can see where it has great value for the Rural America and the well being of America ,, Wish I had control of the POOF button , , I would let everyone google John Boehner from OHIO,,

Jeff-oh · Feb 3, 2009

It is funny how people will react

Kestrel in CT · Feb 3, 2009

Without our state's 50% rebate program, there's no way I could
afford the 36 panels on my barn roof. Their still too expensive
for the average homeowner.

But so many people in Connecticut here jumped in the program,
it recently ran dry after 2 years. They thought it would go much
longer. Here's proof of a government incentive that can jump
start an industry.

If all states had a similar rebate, the economies of scale would
kick in and drive costs down for this fledgling industry, in my
opinion.

Meanwhile, I produced almost 10,000 kwh for 2008; lowered my
annual power bill about 75%. Not bad considering my electric
driven heat pump is a real energy hog)

MarkB_MI · Feb 3, 2009

John, here you go. Not much information, but perhaps interesting.
US overtakes Germany as top wind power producer

Anonymous-0 · Feb 4, 2009

Is it possible to wipe the offending replies only??,seems to me it's an overkill to wipe an innocous post..Always interested in alternative sources of energy.

sammydwm · Feb 4, 2009

this fledgling industry

Solar power is not a fledgling industry.
It's gawdawful expensive always has been, but every so often someone will come up with the old line, cheaper stuff is only about 10 years out.....

Anonymous-0 · Feb 4, 2009

(quoted from post at 01:30:59 02/04/09) Is it possible to wipe the offending replies only??,.

There are people that get out of bed in the morning with the sole purpose of being offended so they can whine about. That'd be a hard one. They were going to put 3 or 4 windmills around our town but the plans got stopped for one reason or another. Mostly tree huggers., but also something to do with the place they had in mind would interfere with communication towers and moving it would mean that the person that the mayor had earmarked for the profits wouldn't cash in (another property owner). You can see about 12 of them from the high point outside town and usually about 8 of them are stopped. There was advertisement on TV here about putting something like a wind turbine on the bottom of the ocean to take advantage of the water current and the freaks strted screaming about how a fish might get caught in them.

Dave

JackE · Feb 4, 2009

I don't remember any political comments on that thread. If so, I must have missed it. Last thing I remember, I posted about wind farm going up in my local area and the possibility of some chopped up duck, and poof, the whole thing was gone. What political comment did you see? Jeeze,sometimes it's like walking in a mine field around here, one wrong step (word), POOF. Jack

John S-B · Feb 4, 2009

Hmmm, didn't see anything really contraversial, although the statement that the age of fossil fuels is over is bunk. Alternative energy sources will take time to develop. I'd love to have a windmill or water wheel to help take me off the grid, but that just ain't gonna happen with the cost of startup.

JML755 · Feb 4, 2009

(quoted from post at 23:40:13 02/03/09)
If all states had a similar rebate, the economies of scale would
kick in and drive costs down for this fledgling industry, in my
opinion.

Alternative energy such as solar & wind will never be the primary generation method uniformly across the US due to disparity in effectiveness of the particular method from State to State. I.e. Solar works great in Arizona, but here in Michigan it is not as effective. Same goes for wind. A coastal or mountaintop region might be able to justify the cost, but in a forested flatland probably not so.

I believe that nuclear power generation would be the cleanest most cost-effective way to produce electricity on a mass scale. The technology is proven and other countries do it. However, the tree huggers and NIMBYs hold way too much power for their representative numbers and will stage protest after protest to make sure that doesn't happen. Our politicians don't have the backbone to stand up to these minorities and do what's right for the country.

I'm not knocking those who have "gone off grid". I'd love to do the same myself, but just can't see the payback at this time. Same goes for electric cars. If I have to pay a $10k or $20k premium for an electric car, I probably won't do it as I can buy a lot of gas for that money. It all boils down to $ per kilowatt or $ per mile driven.

buickanddeere · Feb 4, 2009

Nothing but screaming, whining and moaning for the past 5 years since the wind turbines were proposed and put into service.
The shrill cries of the nimby's are worse than any windturbine's sight or sound.
The junk science reports they trot out look believable to the non technical persons who make up 90% of the population. In reality they rate down there with Al Gores propaganda.
I rememeber years ago when people cried about the tower silos, power lines and cells towers being eye sores. Everybody got used to it.

LouNY · Feb 4, 2009

You are completely correct, the only way that we can even begin to like about reduce our dependency on foreign oil is with a large nuclear program we need 6 to 10 units on each coast a few in the north central and south central, close to the high demand areas and interconnected for maintenance and outages.
Lou NY

buickddeere · Feb 4, 2009

Need more new units than that. More like 50+ 1200+MW units.
Fortunately the new 3+ generation reactors are safer, more reliable and more fuel efficient.
Some of the early units were designed by Rube Goldberg. The engineers were more concerned with "what if" and being complicated. Instead of being simple and reliable.
Wind turbine have their place but they are an optional supplement not reliable supply.

shinnery · Feb 5, 2009

They have built several new wind farms in west Texas the last few years and now they have to park them because there are not enough transmission lines to get the power to Dallas-Ft. Worth or elsewhere so it can be used. LOL
Bryce

Anonymous-0 · Feb 5, 2009

Kinda like buying a saddle before the horse........

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