sad accident

http://newsok.com/feed/4-year-old-boy-dies-after-fall-from-tractor-near-chickasha/article/3350318?custom_click=pod_headline_news


I know that someone was scolded the other day on here for having dogs/kids in his antique tractor bucket and I once saw a guy brushhogging with a small kid in his front bucket. It unfortunately takes something terrible to happen to remind us what can happen. You thank God it is not your family but a family somewhere is greiving today...BE CAREFUL. Avoid this type of dangerous behavior. It doesn't have to happen!

I agree wholeheartedly. Though they are fun, antique and newer tractors can be very dangerous. They are not toys and people should not be taking unnecessary risks. I get very nervous when I see kids around brushogs or any implements with a running PTO.

That person should be scolded!!

Unfortunately not all of us can have the same proper safety training available to us as some of us may have had.

People who do these type of unsafe acts are living proof why we have OSHA today. It's one of the reasons OSHA was organized.

Several years ago near where we lived in NC some idiot was bush hogging with his 12 yo daughter riding in the bucket. She didn't survive it.

You don't even raise a person up in a bucket on a loader.

If you work for a construction company and some one sees you do this there are consequences to pay.

That is a terrible thing to hear of, and I'd be the first one to condemn the practice of riding on the fender, no matter how safe it seems, but I did the same thing as a kid, just not that young. 4 years of age, you're still not very strong, don't take much to get tossed off. Thinking back, the fields were clean, just weeds, chuck holes were not as abundant, (we kept after em) and as safe as it seemed, it was still a dangerous practice to ride the fender, which I did quite often with my father until I was capable of running the tractor and mower myself. The whole time you knew it was dangerous and knew that mower meant business. I can recall some situations back then that could have turned out differently, there is a learning curve with this all this equipment, you take a huge risk by carrying a rider on a fender, there is no doubt about it. Knowing the potential hazards, no way I could do that today and carry a rider while mowing. I can remember riding in the seat of our old D7 caterpillar, at that young age, but the seat was like a small sofa, lot of room, still dangerous if a kid were to not pay attention, but not like a fender. You just can't take chances like this, no matter how safe it seems.

One thing I can say, is the previous generations around here really did not tell you too much about the dangers of things, just the bare basics, you figured it out on your own, when you got hurt, you did not get taken to the hospital or a doctor unless you needed stitches or it was real serious, things have changed a lot, but tractor safety is no joke at any time. As a kid, about the only things that were told to us, was the results of what happened, newspaper article, kid climbed a high voltage tower, news photo showed a burnt pair of rubber sneaker soles, all that was left, yep I never once climbed on the ones here, another one where a guy baled up his kids, yep stay the heck away from that baler, really got a good look at it when we had to bale stationary at the barn, but that was it, no lectures, no training, nothing, just the results, kind of worked too, if you did not see these things, you may not have feared danger so much.

We lost a guy, on the other side of the hill next to us, a few years ago, he got bumped off the tractor and ended up under the rotary cutter, was a 640 ford, and some overgrown area, turned out to be too rough to negotiate, not sure why he tried it or was not aware, you have to keep your mind on what you are doing and make decisions that keep you safe, or it could end up like this.

The season is just starting, be safe out there !

Unfortunately this kind of thing goes way back. I remember Dad telling a few times about somebody who let his daughter ride one of the horses while he was cutting hay. He said she fell off and the mower took her hands and feet off.

Months ago I was scorned and told to mind my own business by a first time tractor owner (Mike CA) who bought a tractor with the sole intent of using it as a toy to haul his kids around and pull his navy friends on hay rides.

I worked construction and nukes for years. I agree with rules to protect peopel but one thing I've learned - ya just can't fix stupid!

right close to the house,,,I too got in trouble for warning folks about those mowers,but I'll say it again!!! MOWING IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT!!!under any circumstance,for any reason whatsoever, at any time..And what's truly sad they will probably throw the boys grand dad,father,uncle whatever in jail also.had a neighbor when we were kids,cut both his 5 year olds legs off with a sickle mower when he didn't notice him run up to tractor..teach your kids to run the tractor,, they really need to know,but do it when your not working,spend the time to do it right and keep them safe and quite possibly alive.

Safety is very big around here. Yes, I have given my children rides on the tractor, but always in the seat with me. I never give rides when I am actually doing any real work with the tractor. Just too much going on to pay attention to everything.

As to staying clear of the tractor, I've got a rather wide area around the tractor to which I pay attention. If anyone comes within that area, I yell for them to leave. If they don't get the message, then I really get vocal. I have been guilty of stopping the tractor, jumping off and with waving arms and a wild look in my eyes ordering them away. Little guys just don't always realize the danger they are in and need to be informed. It is unfortunate, but I've had clueless adults who have also needed that treatment.

I have been teaching my oldest boy how to operate a tractor on his own. One of the first things I taught him was how to kill the tractor so everything stops.

Christopher

Odd, haven't heard from the anti-safety people yet.
You know the ones. No need for hearing protection, eye protection, rops with seat belt, fenders, pto shields, no shields,grills,guards in general.
Tough luck if somebody else gets hurt,it's somebody eleses tax dollars that pay for maimed and crippeled folk.
They are too smart, experienced, fast and strong for anything to ever happen to them.

Whenever kids show up to watch me mowing I stop. until they leave. I know what damage a mower can do, I have seen grapefruit sice rocks fly through the air, I had a rock fly out from my mower, hit my front tire and fly back to hit me in the eye. I now have a scar on my eye lens. stan

And how many of your two cylinders have ROPS and seat belts? I thought so.

it is sad to read of accidents were serious injuries or death occurs. equally sad is accidents such as these continue to occur. saddest of all perhaps is that discussion of these accidents occurs and nothing seems to change except harsh feeling. most folks here do not know each other except for the responses that are posted here. i, like most all here have a thick skin, do not wear my feelings on my sleeves and expect to recieve some type of verbal abuse on occasion, however, when it comes to safety; mine and others, hazards should be made known.

I was accidently dumped out of a loader bucket. Fell about 6' onto a concrete floor. Enhanced the onset of severe arthritis.

steveormary

So what do you want to justify by taking a tangent away from the topic at hand?
What fraction of those two cylinders are involved in incidents? Compare the two cylinders to the Ford N series.
b.t.w. where is the rops and seatbelt on ALL the other manufacture of pre-1970's equipment.
And those two cylinders should have fenders, a pto cover sheild and any pto shaft needs a cover.
Kids shouldn't be sitting on the fender of any tractor of any era.
Are you saying people should't use a rops and seat belt with modern equipment?

Actually, if you DO look at it, the numbers between 2 cylinder JD's and Ford N Series involved in accidents are probably pretty similar. The N Series got a bad (and false) reputation by people who were thinking of the FORDSON N.
ANY tractor can be involved in an accident, regardless of color.

First off, your comment about kids not being able to sit on a tractors fenders is hog wash, I just addressed this sentiment on a similiar topic on the JD forum.
Second, I was just pointing out that even though you stake your position on safety frequently, you are being a little bit of a hypocrit. Are you telling me your 80 has ROPS? I know it doesn't as well as probably several other models you own. I am fully aware of the need for PTO shaft protection devices, an incident in my family 50 years ago with a bale elevator is reminder of that. I do agree with you that there are alot of areas that can be guarded to prevent injury around farm inplements. My point was you keep throwing ROPS into the equation and don't follow your own teaching. The seat belt and ROPS is fine for people who wish to use them. The only tractor I have had with factory ROPS was the 5020 with a cab and for some funny reason the engineers didn't see a seat belt being necessary. I just do not agree that a ROPS system is as needed as you keep saying. And apparently you don't either or every tractor at your place would be so equiped.

The problem is not so much the tractor itself as it is the operator. The N series (9N, 2N, 8N) tends to draw the least skilled operators as it is the most attractive to nonfarm suburban residents for the size and features. Worked for a while at a farm supply store and got to witness first hand the lack of experience of these people. Some were willing to accept advice willingly and quite a few did not want any input other than service info. More than a couple thought an over-running coupler was unnecessary based on cost alone.
I found quite a few that would not consider another make even though it would have been much cheaper and would have done the same work (and probably just as safe to operate). I never understood the obsession given that until the last ten years, the N's brought ridiculous money (8N's 3500 before attachments and 2N-9N 2500.

That is entirely true, so many of those have been around so long, there is a whole new generation owning them, that do not have enough seat time or someone sharing some knowledge with them about their limitations. Lost a distant cousin, the same year as the article I posted, he was experienced, but they tried to pull something out that was stuck and it got him when it flipped back. All these things have their limitations, it's when you push the limits and don't have a safety plan or device to fall back on when something goes wrong, kind of like russian roullette. I have no rops, seatbelt or live pto and I have to deal with slopes and hills, tractor is well ballasted, good brakes, I know how far it goes after the clutch is disengaged when the pto is on, so I just don't push the limits, beyond that, you are asking for it, very simply put.

A few years back I thought some of that safety stuff was a joke. I thought if you were around equipment enough you knew to stay away from certain parts. That was untill watched a friend get caught in a forage wagon pto shaft.I shut the tractor off faster then I ever thought I could move, But it was to late. I will never forget the look in his wifes eyes when I told her what happened.

Actually the N series are the most dangerous tractor out there today, and part of it could be remedied if they just took that 3 point drawbar out and threw it away. I would guess over half of the injuries happen as a result of someone pulling with the 3 point in any raised position. This is just dumb, it changes the whole center of gravity of the tractor. If they would pull from the stationary drawbar so that they weren't using the drawbar as a lever, the problems would be far less common. Till you get some idiot who hooks onto the top link to pull something, happened here a month ago, he was 62.

How about a rops on your pre 1960/1970 Farmall, IH, Massey, Oliver, Case, Allis ? What is so special how you can be a hypocrite and mention Deere twice? Yet leave out the ½ dozen+ other brands of the same era and similarly designed without a rops in mind.
If you had any engineering background or were not motivated by anger/jealousy. You would know that a rops has to be designed to work as a system with the tractor.
The tractor chassis as a whole and the attachment points must be able to withstand the stresses a rops under load would pose. The rops also has to be suitable for the particular chassis as well. Too stiff is almost as dangerous as too flexible.
Come back with a response when you have safety in mind instead of just looking for somebody to take your own inadequacies out on.

Being careful only goes so far. The more chances you leave open for failure/incident. The more hazard factors you must similtaniusly consider and avoid.
Incident investigation studies are prove time and time again that no person can remember everything, everytime. Fatigue or distraction add to the likelyhood of error.
Isn't better to have proper sheilds on the pto and be careful around it? Rather than not having shields around the pto and having to be careful around it?
All the maimed and killed people due to pto's say otherwise. Ask any survivor and they will tell you they WERE being careful around that shaft.
Why do some people think they are so special and that nothing can happen to them?

We just had a woman killed here last year, she fell off a 240 utility, got run over and bush hogged. She was consious, but bled to death, one arm and one leg severed from the mower. They think she hit a tree branch, knocking her out of the seat. A safety switch in the seat could've saved her. A few years back, a local farmer had his young son riding on the fender, kid fell off, dad couldn't stop the tractor fast enough to save him, guy was running a big batwing mower.

Doesn't matter why is riding on a fender while bush hogging.
Bush hogging is often performed on rough ground or land being cleared.
Anybody can be swept off the fender or platform by a tree limb or bounced off.
The passenger or driver would also let go of a handhold to protect one's face from flying debris. It appears nobody has ever seen trash, sticks, stones etc fly out from under a bush hog deck.

????

obviously you havent looked at the 3 point and where it attaches to the tractor..(below the axles) so that pulling from it can only pull the tractor down, not over... that was the sucess of the small tractor as the 3 point loaded actually pulled from underneath and allowed the tractor to pull a heavier load.. pulling from the top link or from around the axle was a KILLER on any tractor. falling of and getting run over was equally deadly as on any tractor. problem with 9n's is that there were so many of them,, 9ns, 2ns, and 8ns sold that they are like mosquitoes.... they're everywhere. They were marketted to replace a mule team because there was a bigger market, and they were priced low enough to undercut every other dealer as well.

Ford sold nearly 3/4 of a million of these tractors so they were, and still are everywhere.
Designed for the small farm back then which is the beginner and weekender of today. So the number of accidents reflectivily be high on this model vrs a model that sold 150,000 units and only 1000 are still in use today.

Please, do tell exactly what piece of idiot safety equipment would have saved the kid's life?
Is every tractor to now have a fully enclosed cab with a kid seat and seat belt?
That should keep Laurin and a few more busy...
No.

The pea between someone's ears obviously wasn't working.
I never did much riding on open tractors, and when I did it certainly wasn't around a mower.

One of the biggest problems today is that people have no common sense as to what is safe and what isn't combined with an expectation that every machine should be bound up with safety devices to prevent their death.
That way they don't have to pay attention to what they're doing or use any judgement...
Too bad for the kid.

Rod

Actually - no. They aren't any more dangerous than any other antique tractor. Misinformation can go a long way....

B&D, not to judge, or get personal, insulting etc., but being slightly critical at times, do you realize you come across pretty darned abrasive to others around here ??? Now I realize personalities differ by the person, and it's good to have thick skin, as well as all the variety people who take the time to contribute here, help or what have you, place would not be the same without it. I dunno, but sheesh, lighten up dude or something LOL ! I think you made some good points, but the way you come across, dang man... maybe you just like ruffling feathers LOL !

I think the point of the original poster was to remind people of safety, and or start a thread on reminding people of same, you know like a tool box meeting etc. which are always a good thing no matter who you are. I for one am all about that, was a big part of my career, and when you have 60 + ironworkers to look after or are on a big site job, some of the things I have done in the past, safety is #1 at all times, anyone who violates those rules is terminated, and I have terminated plenty who disagreed, when in a supervisory capacity on a site. There is a protocol, and you will always find some who disagree, I canned the best welder I had on one site, he would not tie off his lanyard in a basket on a lift he was working from, argued, tried some union crap over it, I knew his delegate and B.A. I made an example out of him myself, usually left the weeding out to my foremen, not this time, safety is the #1 concern.

I've spent a lot of time on and around equipment, I also have a technical background and I certainly understand what and why a r.o.p.s and other safety devices are designed for, what the purpose is, and how they work. I have seen the OSHA files on deaths and injuries and am aware of the studies and all the rest, all good material to read and learn from. ROPS is engineered to displace the load it must carry in a turnover, has to be coordinated into the design of the tractor to fully displace the load, so if you put a ROPS on an old tractor, that did not have anywhere to make connections strong enough to meet the load requirements it will fail, a real easy thing to explain to someone, you must make sure all components of the system are checked, analyzed and calculated to work for the given loads of the specific model or type of equipment it is to be installed on, the installation must be as called for exactly by the engineer, or it could fail. Might be obvious to some with technical backgrounds, but not for others, good reason for discussion here, could save someone.

No one person is infallible when it comes to these situations with equipment, and I agree, if you are tired, fatigued, influenced by drugs/alcohol, distracted, or otherwise un-attentive towards a hazard, good chance you could get injured or killed, same is true for a hasty decision when it comes to any kind of equipment, even the master operator who has been at it for 50 years can and will get caught by a hazard if not paying attention and concentrating on what they are doing, I saw a video over on the ACMOC site, where a member from Australia came to visit CA, he was running a D8 tractor, the first thing I noticed was he failed to look back when in reverse, this guy is a lifetime operator, seemingly very experienced and excellent contributor to that site, but I would not be afraid to comment on what I saw, and I bet he would agree. I've spent plenty of time on those big tractors, had a foreman drill that into our heads daily, always look back when in reverse, check to make sure no one is there, never forgot that, it still does not make you immune to hazards.

When using older equipment, without the safety features, you are at risk, every time you use it, you can't become complacent or distracted, there is a certain discipline that goes with older equipment, does not make you any safer, but if you operate within the limitations of what it is designed to do, and don't push the narrow limits of the safety margin you do have, no matter what it is you are operating, you'll be fine, sure it does not take much to create a hazardous situation, you must keep all the safety devices in place, and maintain them, they are important, nothing is infallible, all depends on how you handle it, safety starts with you first.

Again, good topic here anytime, (in my humble opinion) staying focused on safety at all times is very important to ones well being.

Very well said Rod! Very well said indeed!

B&D your advocating saftey equipment on a regular basis is fine in my books BUT the one thing you almost always fail to promote is people using common sense.............all the safety equipment in the world will not protect an individual whose brain is NOT in gear...........

My Dad taught me the most valuable lessons I have in my tool box years ago........Here are some of them:

1/ - Drive accroding to the conditions of the road or field.........if the terrain looks too steep or unstable, IT PROBABLY IS! Slow down or take another route............ROPS is a great but if you're relying on it, you're out of control..........

2/ - Shut the PTO AND ENGINE OFF before working on the equipment - Don't rely on gaurds, sheilds, inter-locks, etc. to protect you - The only thing that will protect you from being wound up in a peice of equipment is for the engine to be SHUT OFF!

3/ - Keep your eyes open - dont operate equipment when your half asleep, drunk, or hungover............That's when complacency begins and accidents happen!


Those are just a few BUT if the people we read about here on a regular basis who have succumbed to machinery related accidents would have only followed those practices, MOST would still be alive without the addition of extra safety equipment.............

Something to think about!

It takes both "built in safeguards " on and around equipment. PLUS common sense to reduce the number of incidents.
My point is with those claim they can get by safely with "common sense " alone.

WOW seens like there are a lot of ideas on this subject and i have hade my share of accidents but been reading all these coments and to me bottom line human error is mostly to blame a simply seat switch wount solve the problem of getting run over when falling from the seat only a seat belt will because of the time it takes for it to stop moving after you turn it off and this young kidd was riding on the fender if they had wanted you to carry a pasanger the would have added a seat you think but i know i am just as guilty of carrying a passinger but i travel slow and dont do it while working the tractor only when going around the farm to pick up something that needs and operator to drive it back or to help me move something around where we keep things down to the woods bottom line human error

I have cautioned bush hog users to have a switch that will shut down the engine if they get swept off the tractor seat by a limb.Ive gotten laughed at for saying this.Lobstermen use them when pulling traps, cost is 10 bucks.I see kids being given rides on lawn mowers and tillers.A good friends grand son lost his leg when when his dad backed over him with a riding lawn mower.Just runnig over a medium sized stone can throw a rider off a tractor.Just mowing or baling hay can be dangerous when overhanging branches near field edges can sweep the operator off the tractor.

The only thing I use my ROPS for on my 3020 is for the canopy. I dont rely on it saving me since it dont have seatbelt ect.

You amaze me, it must be your time of month. The argument you present about the older tractors not being designed for the load of a ROPS structure is the EXACT same thing I told you the last time you gave us the EVERY TRACTOR SHOULD HAVE ROPS speech. Look back at the last time you brought up this subject. You mentioned in an above post about a whole list of safety issues that you expected someone to say weren't necessary. I was simply pointing out that you don't follow your own advice about ROPS. And it doesn't matter how many companies made tractors back then, I was talking about the brand that you and I own. You always include ROPS in your safety speech and never mention the above stated fact that some old tractors just weren't meant for that equipment. I am not motivated in the slightest by anger/jealousy, I was just pointing out that you maybe shouldn't include ROPS in your regular safety speech unless you are ready to start putting them on your own equipment.

I am 42 now but at the age of 4 I was riding with my uncle on the fender of a 3010 john deere. We were hauling manure to a field and were driving around the barn to go to the target field.I lost my grip on the hand hold and before my uncle realized it I had fell in front of the rear wheel and was run over. Fortunately when it was all said and done my only medical issues from this was a damaged pancreas in which slowed my metabilism which in turn has made it impossible to keep an ideal weight, so I am a heavy weight. My brother on the other hand at the same age had fallen in the barn yard and the the person cleaning it with a back blade didnt see him and dropped the blade on his legs. It broke both legs and we didnt find out till many yrs later that he had also pinched a nerve at the root in his back that controled his right arm and hand. I lost him to an accident just a few yrs ago but for over 35 yrs he had a forearm and hand of a 4 yr old that was basicly useless. He addapted but it was a very hard life changing issue for him.

I have had too many close calls. The week before Christmas last year was moving big rounds one at a time as it was just after our big ice storm, with the 1066 cab tractor. I knew the pickup and trailer wouldn't stand a chance on the ice. Long story short, ended up laying the 1066 on the right side, was only 1/2 mile from parking it, but on icy blacktop, had just got dark and ran into a short whiteout. Couldn't stop her in time. Anyone who thinks accidents only happen to others is either lucky or foolish. DOUG

One question for yall. How do I teach my kids how to operate tractors and equipment with out having them on the machine with me?

You aren't thinking mechanically, its obvious you don't believe me so go try it on a 9n tractor yourself. Hook onto a stump with a chain and then hook onto the stationary drawbar, the tractor will likely just dig holes not pull the front end off the ground.
Now hook the chain onto the 3 point drawbar and raise the 3 point all the way. But be carefull because in less than 3 seconds you are going to have the tractor laying on top of you. It doesn't matter where the 3 point is fastened, as you said. By pulling from any point higher than the stationary drawbar you are using that point as a lever and the rear wheels as the fulcrum. That is why those tractors are so dangerous, you proved that people don't understand the mechanics of where and how to hook to one correctly.

Many years ago I asked a neighbor of mine (he was a life long mechanic at a dealership) what he thought was the safest vehicle on the road. His answer surprised me, but was enlightening. He said,"Any vehicle with a sober driver."

All the safety equipment in the world cannot stop people from doing stupid things. Everyone does, though not all the time. Best thing to do is remind yourself of safety rules and stop using the machinery when you get tired and your mind loses its edge.

Christopher

when i was in high school i remember reading in newspaper about some young guy who was disking corn stalks was struck by lighting he was then ran over by the disk.
when he didn't come home someone went looking for him and found tractor turned over in ditch before they found him.

Wait till they are big enough to operate it by themselfs. In the mean time, leave your equipment turned off when you show them how the controls work. Dave

Try the same thing on ANY tractor, and hook too high - same results, no matter what color it is. It's not a matter of brand, it's common sense.

You are saying you can't find a seat belt in the salvage yard for $10.00 and bolt it to the tractor?
I would have been crushed by an excavator when the ditch bank collapsed. If I had not taken 5 minutes and repaired the seat belt buckle.

If I had a seatbelt I wouldnt wear it. Had another John Deere that had a seatbelt but I couldnt stand it around me when Im getting on and off.

Then if our places were reversed. You could "stand" being crushed.

Well if thats how my life ended I guess I would have died doing something I like (on a tractor). I knew a guy that said he would want to die doing something he loved. Well he died doing something he loved which he was bailing hay and he got caught up in his baler.

You have to be kidding???

Kidding about what. He died baling hay and thats what he lived for was to bale hay. He had the 4020 running it with the baler door open and he was doing something in there when his hand got caught and pulled him in there. Sad thing indeed especially for the guy raking, which was his son. He didnt know what to do when he found him in the baler. Have a good night.

The only difference is there aren't any other brand of tractors that routinely use the 3 point drawbars like the Fords do. And when guys pull with the 3 point at any point other than all the way down is going to be wearing the tractor on top of himself.

8ns came with drawbars, too. There were also drawbar kits available for 9N and 2N. It still boils down to the operator. Ford tractors have always been misunderstood by people who don't really know much about them. They aren't any more dangerous then any other brand.

The family friend moron who was driving the tractor with a 4 year old on the fender needs to have negligent homicide charges broight against him.

It's ok to be lazy and ignorant so your can get maimed or killed the way you like. So your wife can be left a widow. Or leaving your wife the caregiver of a cripple?

I aint lazy and ignorant. Our community just dont believe in the safety stuff like roll bars, seat belts etc. We just got the old 3020s and 4020s that you dont have to worry about the safety stuff like seat belts. Just get on and roll.

Ok now I know you are kidding for certain and just playing along for entertainment value.

Not to take from all other safety comments here, but my first safety rule is ... SLOW DOWN. Even the rockheads with people on fenders or in loader would improve their chances. It lessens all impacts, gives one time to think and react, and it's easier on equipment. I can't imagine how anyone could get swept out of a tractor seat into a mower unless going too fast or sitting backwards.

Last summer we saw a guy making round bales so fast that the baler tires would bounce off the ground when empty. I said to the wife "He's not going to finish that field today" and it was only about 15 acres. Sure enough, in five minutes he was stomping away from a broken baler, swearing so loud we could hear him, and roaring away in his truck. I think it was a kid who wanted to be out with his friends and dad made him work. Hope dad made him work off the cost of repairs.