Horses, plow pan, compaction all that good stuff.

Live in a frosty area with clays that heave all over so I doubt we have much hard pan but the clay certainly becomes hard as rock with only a few passes over it.

We keep fields in hay for a long time between seedings, I've never plowed any of mine, and the previous owner hadn't since 1990 or so, and may have used horses the time before that!

I plowed a bit last fall, getting ready to tackle a field with deep skidder ruts in it, and noticed my tire running in the furrow really packs down the clay. I couldn't pull the plow on land but it got me searching on the net.

I always though the action of the plow caused hardpan but it looks like the tires in the furrow cause a lot. I see they say horse plowing causes even more, to me that means the concentrated weight on hoofs at the bottom of every furrow packs it the worst.

So, do you get plow pan with onland plowing? Is it reduced? I have heard chisel plowing will not build a hardpan (not talking subsoiler/ripper).

Was also reading the rolling of a disc harrow causes compaction a few inches down vs a springtooth not causing it.

I'm mostly interested as my clay drains so poorly it makes me wonder if some areas have a bad pan.

Lots of folks refuse to believe it because of the way it looks after disking, but a disk (harrow) compacts the soil as much (or more) as any tillage tool one can use.

I always thought that that the disk only caused compaction if you packed it full of dirt and let it ball up on the disc wheels, thereby turning it into a roller. Therefore don't disk in mud.

But I am a fan of the ripping. I use a V-ripper in the fall to cut through the hardpan, but my neighbors use an inline ripper and some places their soil is soft enough it's like quicksand.

ok lets start at the beginning,first of all plowing, discing ,chiseling, rototilling, whatever you do do including walking on soil will cause compaction.ever seen a trail around a fence where dogs walk?the reason a horse causes more compaction is because its weight is distributed over a smaller area,think of it this way,say you have a clydsdale horse that weighs close to 1500 lbs,and a tractor that weighs the same with wide tires,the tractor tires will compact less because more area is on ground,just like a crawler tractor of the same weight will compact even less than a tractor on rubber(this is why lots of folks use crawlers as orchard tractors).the horse will have less impact though because the compaction is in a much less area.if your tractor is really compacting the soil in furrow you may be plowing too wet.when your plowing with a horse he/they are not in furrow,their on unbroken ground and plow will break up any compaction caused, at least by the horse,un like a tractor.a plow causes hard pan because the PULL forces them into ground until their level.when this happens they compress the soil underneath.this is hardpan.it becomes worse over time every time you plow,a disc causes it because of weight,a chisel or springtooth will cause it also,it operates the same as a plow.the difference is its less of an area under sweeps/points so the force is more concentrated but its in a much smaller area while a plow will compact over an entire field.when you get hardpan what happens is water will stand in your field just as it will in a clay pot.to drain a clay pot you put a hole in bttm.to drain a field with hardpan you use a subsoiler/ripper that lifts hardpan and soil letting water run through.chisel/springtooth does cause hardpan,believe it or not even rain does,but its much less of an area because points are narrow.on your clay,what you need to do is add organic material,or sand,to lessen compaction.the grains of a clay soil are flat,they lay down just like leaves do and wont allow water to run into soil because they are tightly stacked together.this also allows them to dry faster because the difference between soil temps and air temps cause water to migrate(convection) from below to surface.believe it or not cultivating does NOT dry the ground!except for right at the surface, in fact it conserves moisture since grains of soils that are not stuck together do not wick moisture to the surface,,adding organics,or sand will hold the grains apart and allows water to migrate down into soil easier also allowing roots to grow.believe it or not plants dont grow IN the ground,they grow in the areas between the grains of dirt.depending on what you raise,say wheat,dont bale your straw, instead after combining plow it under.same thing with corn run over the stalks with a brush hog or stalk cutter(you do know this was why a rotary mower was originally made dont you ,not for mowing fields?)and turn them down.it will make a huge difference in your fields in a very short time.if you cannot do this,say your cutting your corn for ensilage ,tiling OR french drains in a field will help drain standing water and let them dry.i hope this helps !

Hard pan is the sub soil that is under the top soil. It is caused by normal packing of the lower soil that has no nutrients in it. Mostly sand and clay that been there for many many years.

The packing of the top soil is not hard pan it is just good top soil that has been packed in when to wet to work.

Always turn soil after the water has drained good if it can be balled up in the hands and stick together its to wet to work. Clay soil may need something to help break it up for use.

1. plow it
2. disk it
3. harrow it.
Walt Davies

Forgot take a post hole digger and run it down til it hits the hard pan and stops digging. The depth that you go is your top soil watch for changes in the color of the soil. Good top soil is dark brown to black when it starts turning lighter brown to yellow then you are in the sub soil the hard pan is just below that.
The amount of top soil will determine what you can plant in it.
In the Delta in California the top soil about 1500 ft. down.
On my farm in Polk co. OR its anywhere from 4 ft. to 1 in.
Walt Davies

You need to be talking to somebody at your county's Soil and Water Service. While I agree with a lot that has been said, not everything may pertain to your area. Example, plow pan can occur in the topsoil layer around here. Also, I have not heard anybody discuss using plants as a means to break compaction. Red clover has been used in situations where mechanical means are not available/practical. Of course, just as with tillage, the results will vary.

OK I will try to explain further,all,and take that as literally all, the earth that is not exposed rock has,topsoil that can be any where from o- to thousands of feet deep,then subsoil that also can be thousands of feet thick.on a solid clay soil there's very little topsoil.the topsoil is made up of decaying,decayed,vegetable matter breaking down to cause humus.under that is the subsoil.its made of whatever rock from limestone to granite that was the parent rock broken down over time to become dirt.here where i am it red because it was broken down from red granite rock or in the case of sandy loam sand rock.clay is made of silt,its broken down from various siltstones, shales, slates, and such that werevery fine grained sedimentary rocks originally formed from just that, sediments, mostly silt.ALL SOILS REGARDLESS can develop hard pan to a verying degrees.sand the very least,sandy loam the next,with clay being the worst.Clay is the very hardest of land to farm,because of one reason ,its either too dry or too wet very hard to reach a medium.because of this it has very little true topsoil because it quite simply washes all organic matter that forms a true topsoil away because water runs off so easily.in the ideal case we would have a topsoil that was as deep as the longest roots the plants were trying to grow has.but with clay what happens is water( all water soaks into the ground,unimpeded in soils such as sand in just keeps right on going down until it hits the aquifer or something to stop it,)in clay just the opposite is true.it runs off very quickly letting little soak into ground.but, and here's the amazing part it has the uncommon ability to draw moisture from very deep in the earth.because of a simple thing called convection and because of its silty makeup grains of the parent material compact very tightly.since this is the case it can draw moisture very quickly to the surface becoming as you say a bog that very seldom dries.unfortunately it has too much water for most plants to survive they quite simply drown or seeds rot in the ground.since it is drawing so much moisture up from below it also forms a very hard crust on top of seeds that very few can break thru.believe it or not this crust is losing tons of water to the atmosphere every day.go out into a clay field and pick up a piece of that crust.under neath most likely you will find the ground moist.just like laying a sheet of plywood on ground will pull moisture to the surface so will this crust.believe it or not this crust is causing the ground to stay wet! NOT from holding in moisture, but from pulling water up from underground so fast its losing thousands of gallons of water to the dry atmosphere.its dry on top simply because it has contact with the air causing it to dry quickly.since we know cultivating Saves moisture , what happens if we cultivate clay?first is we break up the crust,this stops water from wicking to surface because if soil particles are not touching they cant as efficiently wick away moisture.this does in fact SAVE subsoil moisture.unfortunately, it also has a opposite effect in clay.since the soil particles are so tightly packed when water stops coming up it also goes down very fast and soil becomes in a matter of hours too dry,causing our plants to suffer from lack of moisture in the root zone.sort of a catch 22 type deal.how to stop it? organics.. plant wastes have a unique ability to hold and store water that regular dirt doesn't.what happens when we add it to clay is it slows or stops the formation of the crust, it holds the moisture in the root zone where its needed,it still allows the clay to pull moisture up from deep below the surface,and since itself it is a plant waste it holds nearly the perfect amount of water needed by our crops for good plant growth.over time it builds topsoil which in the end eliminates the problems associated with clay soil.buy the way,very little of the water that a plant uses comes from rain directly.it must draw moisture up from the subsoil,which is why a good solid contact between subsoil and topsoil which hold the nutrients our plants need is so important.

All farming ground everywhere could have a hard pan under it if it hasnt been ripped deep.Think about it like this,even if you plow it,there is a limit to how deep you can plow it,under that there is a chance you have an area thats hard packed.Clay is not very good no matter what you do to it because of what others described and it just doesnt grow things well,but you can rotate different things on it and get as good as you can out of it.After all these years of farming it with horses and now tractors there is an area on top thats been worked a lot,and like a piece of rock under that level,especially if its clay under it.It probably would help it to chisel plow it deep as you can then next year go the other way across the field.Not sure if that would even work for clay but thats what you would do with most other kinds of dirt and I have seen people do that with clay type soil.As far as compaction goes you cant do a lot about it other than duals.Tractors dont compact the soil as much as horses.Clay stays in a state of being like its compacted anyway.I doubt the tractor is really having a lot of effect on it.The plow is tearing it maybe curling the surface you see and the tractor tire is cutting through the ripped surface mashing it back down.If you dug into the clay the same depth with a shovel and compared it to where the tractor tire ran over it probably would not be much difference.

I"m glad Jack mention the compaction of a horses hoof in the furrow is different than a tractors. The horses hoof only strikes every couple feet, not every inch as tractor tire does. Anyone that claims a horse compacts the soil worse than a tractor, especially a heavy tractor with singles on that"s slipping a little is dreaming. Pure nonsense. No way a horse compacts the soil MORE and no way a horse plow compacts the soil more. Utter nonsense.

We have heavy clay and I have to disagree with those who say clay is poor soil. It"s different than a sandy loam, far different. And clay DOES have topsoil, it doesn"t "wash away" as was said, except in barren fields resembling something from the dust bowl. Clay tends to be an active soil, although cool. You just have to study and pay attention to pick the best time to plow or fit the land. You"re at natures mercy, but if you do it right you can get great crops and grasslands. The way NOT to do it is to get out too early, slip and spin and slide all over, run over the ground repeatedly for no reason and not to let nature do it"s work. A good cold winter will fit your fields better than any tillage tool.

The clay around here gets hard during the summer when it gets dry and shrinks up and tightens up so bad you can stick your hand in the cracks. Very hard digging then. The freeze thaw cycle of the winter seems to soften up the soil. The depth from where you go from the soft stuff to the hard stuff depends upon how much subsoil moisture there is. Just the opposite of a dry summer, moisture makes the clay expand and softens it as it isn't as tight or compacted.

It will act this way whether or not you drive a tractor or ride a horse over it.