Kinda OT / union question (local 181)

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
One of my instructors at school thinks I should join Local 181 here in Ohio. A union for equipment operators, in case you didn't know. Because I am young and its good security once you get through the first four years.Never really known anything about them. Instructor says I'm not bad on the equipment for a newbie. Anyone dealt with them or have any ideas. Advice would be appreciated. By the way I'm going to school for heavy equipment and site construction.
 
(quoted from post at 14:14:20 09/17/09) One of my instructors at school thinks I should join Local 181 here in Ohio. A union for equipment operators, in case you didn't know. Because I am young and its good security once you get through the first four years.Never really known anything about them. Instructor says I'm not bad on the equipment for a newbie. Anyone dealt with them or have any ideas. Advice would be appreciated. By the way I'm going to school for heavy equipment and site construction.

Is Ohio a right to work state? Even if it is, and I know this is an old cliche, 'You can't go wrong when your Union is Strong!".....but it has teeth, negotiating power. Too, considering your career path, safety will be a huge issue and the Union can enforce those rules meant to keep you from harm....and If the contractor wants to enfringe on those rules the union can shut the job down...I worked a job in Oklahoma one time, (boilermaker) and the owner of the tank tried to send out a non-Union operator for the side boom (cat)...Union reps came out and threatened to shut the job down unless a Union Operator was called in. All the guys appreciated this...we'd seen some of the 'cat drivers' that looked to have been sent from a tavern.
 
I have been a union member for years and i say yes get signed up now.Get your Apprenticeship behind you and get started paying into your Retirement Fund as soon as possible.The sooner you are vested the better.BUT REMEMBER,just because you belong to a Union it does not mean that you won't have to work for your living.Learn all you can and get all the experience you can.Take whatever job they send you out on until you gain that experience.The Operating Engineers Union is one of the best out there.Make your mark,work hard and you will have a good comfortable living and a great retirement to fall back on.I'm sure there will be some who will try to tell you different but,if i were 18 again and after what i know now i would join this Union Local ASAP.Young people with College Degrees are having to take jobs at fast food joints to survive and pay off Student Loans now.What has been proposed to you could make you a fortune if you work hard and manage it correctly.Good Luck.
 
I know some on here have bad feelings toward unions, but I have worked union and nonunion. Union pays better, and has better benefits. Like the bumper sticker says, "Live better, Work Union!!"
 
You should go for it if it's in your best interest.

Nothing says you have to stay if you don't want to.

One of the problems with unions are guys like below, who act like anyone non-union is somehow a second class citizen.

That's just insecurity manifesting itself, and should not be acceptable behavior.
 
I would definitely look into it and make sure the dues you pay are going to benifit you. Ive been union for 10 years and it has benifited me. You need to decide for yourself.
 
NOT A UNION FAN Take that for what its worth Too many times the union workers thinks they are better than the rest of us Ive been a non union iron worker for 20 years JMO Thanks Brad Metcalf
 
Unions suck....money right out of your pockets and into theirs... If you are lazy join a union, you will be able to keep your job.. If you are willing to work you dont need a union! Your actions and work ethic will influence your pay more than anything. I have never worked union! I make more working non union constructon than union members doing the same job! Been doing it 16 years and counting...Just my 2 cents
 
This is a poor place to talk about unions. Most farmers are conservatives. As you can see from most responders.
 
Hey, Steve, Ande or whatever your going by today.

Your such a good non-union worker that you have to hide your true handle, been "black listed" on several websites down there in Florence, KY have ya.

T_Bone
 
Don't want to say one way or the other - depends what the working conditions are in your area.
If you are a good operator and there are plenty of heavy construction jobs avaiable in your area - might be worth it, But your'e on the bottom of the pecking order. On the other hand, if your'e a good operator and can manage money, you'd probably be better working for yourself buying/renting/leasing equipment doing farm drainage, clearing, demo, etc.

Just my 0.03 (adjusted for inflation)
 
You guys should really check with who your answering on a Sprint dial-up right off I-335 in Lemont, Ill


T_Bone
 
We live in a free country! Where we are free to express our ideasand thoughts! These are my opinions..If you like them great and if you dont that is ok too.I believe you should earn your living and not depend on someone else to make it for you. Too many people want to ride on someones shirt tale. And when things fail they want to blame everyone else except themselves. That is why out country is in the shape it is currently. How did we overcome the Great Depression? Hard work! And hard work is the key to sucess and making life what you want it to be.,
 
You know nothing about unions or the great depression. Im sorry my father and his family were not hard workers they just wanted to be poor? My father went to 17 different schools growing up in the sandhills of nebraska, sure as heck wasnt because they wanted to be poor! Get a chance at a farm a job or a business, go broke and had to move on. I think you better do a little history on the unions also. I guess everyone should work in poor conditions with poor unsafe equipment for poor wages with no benifits, I guess that would make them hard workers.
 
Union is the right choice.People that are against unions havent worked for a living usually.Usually they are rich types who end up paying unions to do the work and running them down every chance they get.There are so many people out there now with all kinds of equipment,trying to underbid each other,that would be a bad mistake to try to buy some equipment,especially since you dont even know what you are doing yet.It will take you years to learn to run equipment and bid jobs.Get in the union if you can,figure it out yourself.In a group of people that mostly are farmers,usually dont know anything about a union,but say its bad because they think lying people on the radio and TV know what they are talking about.Actually those people on the airwaves are union themselves.If they had to work union or nonunion they would know union is better.Far from perfect but way better than non union.
 
I assume you're talking about entering an apprenticeship program with the Operating Engineers. I don't know much about the Ohio program, but I know that the one here in Michigan is highly regarded and difficult to get into. I can't think of anything bad to say about a program where you can learn a skill that can give you a lifetime of employment, and where they'll pay you while you go to school. And nobody says you have to stay in the union the rest of your life--you might just decide to start your own business.

I imagine that the union keeps a waiting list for guys who want in the program, and will notify you when they are taking applications. For that reason, you should get your name on the list immediately, because they probably only take applications every year or two. Just because you apply doesn't mean you'll be accepted, and just because you're accepted doesn't mean you can't change your mind.

If someone wants to discourage you from entering the program, ask them if they'll give you the same deal: Paid, on-the-job training for a career that pays well.
 
Whether to join a union depends on the local. I was a member of an ICWU local thaw was the most do-nothing outfit I ever saw, as far as what the workers got for their dues money. And I've been a member of a decent UAW local, that was involved in the community as well as dealing with worker issues.
 
The choice to join or not join is yours to make because you have to live with it.

For ME if I were going to take the dirt works track I would most likely pass on the union but if I were looking to get into hook work the union is the place to be.

With that said I will agree with Mark and say the IUOE has a very good apprenticeship program at least in my area and it is very hard to get into it most of the times. You will pay your dues in time by being a oiler but everyone starts at the bottom.

Some other things you need to consider before taking on hook work is do you have the personality for it. Yes you sit in a cab (some with A/C and heat) while others on the job work their buts off out in the elements. But you will find you hold a mans life in your fingertips many times. You have to be the best at what you do to do this. One mess up and someone dies.

While I use to be in the local 406 I got out of it because construction and moving from one job site to another got to me.
 
I've been a union member 45 years, 43 with the same union. I will carry my union card till the day I die.
I think that will give you my opinion about unions.
L.D.
 
I have mixed feelings on Unions, they can be good and bad. I have dealt with that Union I think, if it's the one that has the school down by Nelsonville. I was impressed by the facility that they had. We went there as for a training class for a Urban Search and Rescue team and learned a lot. I am in the IAFF but don't always agree with the party line. But the Union can't vote for politicians, but I can. If you join, don't be one of the jerks that uses the union to hide behind and becomes a lazy POS. Work hard and help your company to be profitable, we gotta stop exporting jobs and stop importing workers. A days work for a days pay.
 
I have friends of mine that are union ironworkers, and they are comfortably retired in their mid 50's. Excellent benefits and a great pension. How you doing, bub?
 
I hope you saved some of those big bucks because if you have a son that wants to work at GM you"re going to have to subsidize his $13 dollar per hour two tier union job with no pension. Better build a guest room on your house to move his family in. You"re greedy union used up all the money.
 
I was very fortunate to work at GM, at the time I did. Wages at GM have been less than 10% of the dealer cost, for 30 years. Health care costs, especially for retirees, got to be larger than wages. At one time we were told if GM retirees lived 2 years less, GM would have no debt. Hard to negotiate that into a contract...
 
People that are against unions haven't worked for a living?

You're kidding, right?

It's the guy who works for a living that gets screwed, he has to pay his tax dollars for public jobs to pay the prevailing wage, thanks to the dinosaur Davis Bacon act that should be repealed tomorrow.
 
So you wer a member of the UAW and you admit it? They took down the American car manufacturing business and are unable to compete with other car manufacturers. The current dictator had to bail them out with MY TAX MONEY to keep you dinosaurs in business.

Unions are a good place to be if you are brain dead and lazy. But as they choke one industry to death after another, they will be gone.
 
There is a bridge in Ded Moines that was built non-union. Even the lab tests for concrete strength were faked. They had a whole bunch of test cylinders made up from a good batch of concrete and sent them in as samples from the later, weaker, but easier to pour, batches. It was a circus and the bridge had to be re-decked in less than five years because of this. Who really saved money on this job? BTW, the support columns are also flaking off exposing the re-rod which hastens deteriation. Bridge should've lasted at least 25 years.
 
Regardless of what you chose to do...THE MOST IMPORTANT ADVISE that I can give that will help give you a good happy life. 1)Keep God 1st, 2)borrow NO money for ANYTHING EVER (no debt) and 3)save it for the honeymoon (if she doen't agree with that she's not the right girl) Seriously life is MUCH simpler if you follow these.... been there done that...

Pretty much not a union fan. They had a VERY important part in industrial history. but...today MOST of the time they do not save their own jobs, either sent somewhere else or helped bankrupt the company. If the company doesn't make a profit NO ONE has a job. BUT there are a few places, may be like the one you're looking at where high skills/competency are needed (we do not need a $30/hour guy to read a paper and keep the chip tub level- Delphi- bankrupt) and that may be a good idea. As others mentioned you need to see what the benefits are for the dues. They do take some of YOUR $. ALso, depending on your convictions you'll need to be prepared for the political direction/push of the group too. This pres sure seems more in bed with the unions than I ever remember.
 
If the CardCheck legistration is passed, Alot more businesses and industries will be "Choked out."
Jack
 
I would pursue this opportunity. The construction industry, especially; site, heavy&highway, industrial, commercial building - excavation/ foundation work can provide a decent income, and can be a rewarding trade if you like this work.

Regardless of being affiliated with a union such as the Operating Engineers, you may find open shop contractors that are competitive with union pay and benefits, we had a few in this area, also those that perform prevailing wage jobs, state, federal etc. those are usually good jobs as well, one of the open shop contractors actually went union again, unions still have a good presence here.

I have a lot of experience with union trades, especially the operating engineers, both site work and crane work, in NYC, NJ etc. I prefer union labor, but have done non- union work as well, having a good contractor with experienced people is most important.

I've also spent several years as a heavy equipment operator, and have worked on many kinds of projects, earthwork, underground utility work, highway, drainage and some blasting & demo as well. I'm very familiar with 3 locals, 2 in NYC and one upstate. I've hired and have had plenty of O.E.'s work under my supervision.

Short and sweet, if you have the ability, like operating equipment, that is a start. You'll need to learn through instruction, seat time and getting job experience. Once you learn the skills, and become a safe productive operator, you need to build a reputation as such, you need to be a self starter, maintain a solid work ethic, building a reputation that will make you stand out a little, the last thing a contractor wants is to hire unknowns out of the hall and weed out the non performers, having known players and building "A" teams is very important to productivity and profitability, this work is all about production, good safe production at that. I've had trouble with crane operators, with bad attitudes, no contractor ever wants a jerk on their site. Your attitude, demeanor, personality and work ethic, attention to safety, the equipment you run is absolutely paramount. You want to be the guy who is happy running the oldest machine in the fleet, I used to be, and they always had work for me, being a chronic complainer with a pss poor attitude goes nowhere. One outfit I worked at they intentionally put me on an old 955 CAT crawler loader, no problem at all, you know later that year I was demo'ng brand new equipment and my input was a big part of their purchase decision, Komatsu even sent a rep out to take pictures of me for their brochure, I was on a new D65 PX LGP, stockpiling wet topsoil, had I a bad attitude, I'd probably have stayed on the 955 !

The key is to get with a good contractor once you are able to work productively, one with a good backlog of work, and a reasonable size annual volume, you may have to travel a bit and you may deal with layoffs, it's part of the game. Most important is to learn as much as you can and excel where you can, don't ever become full of yourself, seen plenty of those guys in my career. If you can get with a decent size contractor, and become a known performer, you stand a good chance of doing well, they will weed out people and lay off those who don't perform, whereas others won't get that winter layoff, they'll find something for them etc.

Operating Engineers pay in the envelope + the supplements/benefits/vacation/pension/annuity etc. is a very good package, in NYC Local #14 members do very well, and have an excellent retirement, many members have found homes with companies, especially crane operators. Work can dry up, like it is now, but it can also be very busy. You put in 20-30 years it can pay off nicely.

Just some thoughts, but I'll add this too; when I was an equipment operator, I really wanted to become a member of the Operating Engineers, but it was impossible to get in, I went to #825 several times, passed the test at their school on their equipment, and got some impressive comments about my skills, by this time I had the experience, but the B.A, was a shyster and played favorites, it went nowhere, I also went to the #14 school, did the same thing, even had a sponsor, right next to me there was a guy who was a novice, could not even get a full bucket, whereas I had my trench dug, dressed up and was ready to backfill, that went nowhere as well, so I stayed in management and supervision, it was disappointing because I liked the work, grew up around and had a lot of experience with equipment prior to testing at their schools, oh well..... so if you have an opportunity, pursue it, you can always take a withdrawal card later if for some reason you change your career, but I would not hesitate to follow through on this, may not ever get another chance.

Another thing that may help is to get your Class A CDL, I was a Teamster Local, #669 in the mid 80's, and have had the license over 20 years now, it is a plus to a site contractor for an employee to have one and may help you get hired, keep it clean, no DWI's or similar, though being an O.E. it may be out of your jurisdiction for the most part, it is still good to have and sometimes they work things out between B.A.'s where an O.E. may have some limited work in this capacity, always pays to be versatile. In a open shop, that CDL is usually a good thing to have, because you may have to be able to do both for them, I've done it, also kept me busy at the end of the year, hauling equipment back etc.
 
Not a fan of unions. Seen to much abuse in the system. But this is something you will need to check out for yourself. Go over everything and see if it is what you really want to do. If you do go into the program. I hope you find an older guy to train you. Listen to what he says,because the right man will teach you more than you will learn in books.
 
I was die hard anti union and a staunch conservative all my life but have softened my views over the last 4-6 years.

I deal with employee benefits for large corporations and have done so for close to 30 years.

Never have I seen such a disregard for employees over the last 10 years...and it is geting worse. I remember a business owner laying off some employees permantly back in the early 80's. He was literally crying tears and was extremely distraut over having to do so-the emplyees were like family.

Today the employers attitude is non cahalant. many employers just don't care today. Years ago the business owner lived down the street from the employee, went to the same stores, church etc. Today, the busioness owner is brought in with the corpoprate jet or helicopter and does not even know his employees so there is no connection when he lays off 5-10k employees and doesn't care.

I think as more jobs get outsourced and offshored, more protectionist laws and unions will make a comeback in all types of business.

Millions of jobs have been outsourced to China and now I see where china is bidding on jobs in the uS and other countries and bringing in their own workforce for 1/2 of the cost)- where does this insanity end?
The US is committing economic suicide.
 


The exodus of manufacturing jobs to overseas has been due in large part to unrealistic union demands. In many cases, they've outpriced themselves in the market place and business simply went elsewhere.

In a lot of cases, unions have resorted to extortion and sabotage to try and hold on to "their" turf.

Do you think that "wins" for ANYONE??


A good friend of mine had a thriving electrical business that he'd built up over several years - was making money hand over fist and was becoming a regional contractor - but was worried about finding enough help for some upcoming big projects he had bid on.

He signed a contract to use union guys - and they had broke him within 2 years... They were the most worthless, arrogant guys he had ever tried to work with.

He about had a nervous breakdown trying to keep projects moving with those worthless sob's and finally went under...

Now he just works on his own and makes a good living on his own... But he'd spit in the eye of anyone that tries to tell him unions are good for anything but extortion...


HH
 
Worked at St. Marys Kansas (collins station?)....power house job back in the 70s....

Kansas is a right to work state, so I had to work for bosses that used to be butchers, bakers and what not....they got the job through relatives there. The iron work was so miscalculated, misfit that most was welded in place...the major contractor just couldn't seem to understand the bolt holes were suppose to line up...brother. Don't know if anyone around the area remembers but someone got so fed up with the lack of safety they brought in a military tear gas bomb and set it off...the news showed all these school buses taking people to Topeka. The saftey guy there was an accountant that would put on his "doctors hat" when someone showed up like I did, with something in my eye. Add to this the innovative methods for construction...on boiler work a hydro is done on the tubes after welding. Makes sense because the whole thing is covered in insulation and alumium. Some genius decided to go ahead and start insulating without doing the hydro....had a piece of equipement that was supposed to find leaks through all the coverings...of course they didn't account for major leaks that happened during the hydro...all the insulation had to be torn off and replace due to all the leaks.

I remember reading a union mag one day in the trailer during lunch....had a couple of pictures of a construction site in texas...about a 10 acre site with apprx. 5 stories of red iron. One night the operator (non union) forgot to set the brake on the cab and the wind came up that night and swung the boom hard into the iron. The result was a total collapse of all the beautiful set steel. And that was the problem, to meet schedule the scab ironworkers were only putting a few bolts at a time at the connections..thus it wasn't stabilized correctly.

The bottom line is we all paid through higher utility costs and what not due to the completely nonprofession manner of non union construction.

The major contractor at the St. Mary power house was Daniels and the one in texas was brown and root.

Of course I'm sure there are really great non union workers out there.
 
Considering the FACT that only about 8% of the private workforce is union (more than half union membership are government employees) is makes me wonder how accurate that statement is. I mean if 92% of the private work force are rich guys who never work why would they need a union?
 
The training program lasts 4 years. It usually set at 8,000 hours + school work. Basically a 2 year associate degree, + 4 years on the job training. After the training is finished, you go on the journeyman's list, able to work wherever.
 
If you join the local, you will make money while learning the trade. If the Union has a good rep in the area it may be a good choice. To purchase equipment will put you into debt, along with the hassle and cost of transportation, maintenance, and insurance. It also takes time to establish your name in the business, and right now construction is slow.

I would find it hard to pass up a "get paid as you learn" education. You could always buy some equipment and go off on your own when construction picks up.

I think some of the remarks about unions are irrelevant-that is they are all bad. Many large projects go to union operators because of their quality of work and scheduling. It takes time to estimate jobs.

Just my opinion
 
I grew up in the Akron, Youngstown area of Ohio, asisde from Detroit one of the biggest union areas in the USA. I have seen the devastation the unions have caused first hand. Strikes against the rubber companies cost thousand of people their jobs. After striking Goodyear for 3 years the company built plants in the south, moving the jobs out. Thhere is not one tire built in Akron anymore when in years past 95% were made there. Basically it was the unions that drove the tire production out of this country. Unions used to do a lot of good and credit should be applied where due but when unions dictate terms to employers and demand part of the business etc, thats too much. I believe that RTW laws are important. That way you can be union or non union your choice. I dont believe that unions are needed to fight for you. If you dont like the job, move on. Henry
 
GM's pension plan was drawn up in the early 70's and it was assumed people would work until they were 62 and would probably be dead by the age of 67 or so. What they didn't plan on was guys retiring at 49 and living until they were 82 and their wives living until they're 92. Paying somebody $50,000 dollars in wages and benefits to not work for 30 more years after they retire is not only absurd but will eventually put a company out of business and it has. They went bankrupt.I just watched a special on GM and they talked about this very subject and how the union and GM managment realized they had created a monster after they came up with it. To show you how ridiculous it is the average GM retiree is making more money in wages and benefits here in Michigan than the average working family! We have people all over around here including my own family that are completely off the grid and making much more money than the people that are working.
 
I know a bunch of union members in Del., where the GM and Chrysler plants are shutting down. Looks like they will be carring their union cards all the way to the UNEMPLOYMENT office.
Jack
 
The UAW local I was a member of was NOT working for Ford, GM, or Chrysler. We worked for a supplier to Ford, and built frames for Ford Explorers. When our plant closed in 2005--due to our company losing the contract bid on the next generation of frames to a competitor
--the top pay on the production line was $16.29 an hour. Skilled trades, such as weld techs and maintenance, might have made over $20 an hour, but we were nowhere near what the Ford UAW workers were making. Our local even offered to reopen the contract and negotiate pay cuts if it would save jobs, but the company wasn"t interested. They told us that, even with pay cuts, the way the Chinese were driving up steel prices in that time frame [2004-2005], it was raw material costs that were killing them...not labor.

When we knew the end was coming, our UAW local was advised by the regional UAW that any money left in our treasury would become the property of the regional/national union. So when that became common knowledge, our local, which had been a willing contributor to causes within the community, became a lot more generous with the money, and as a trustee in the local I helped see to it that there was next to nothing left for the union higher-ups to take. The local Little Leagues and 4-H and other community organizations appreciated our generosity, and we were determined that the regional and national union--which had little sympathy for our local--wouldn"t benefit from our misfortune.

Sorry if you think the little local I once belonged to was a drain on your tax dollars...but we weren"t, and we aren"t. So go spew your venom at someone else.
 
I like unions they keep you working for the 4 years of your apprenticeship then let you starve as journeyman.
Seen it to much with friends and relatives. I bought my farm from a union Carpenter who couldn't get enough work to pay the mortgage.
Walt
 
I belonged to the Teamsters Union in the late 60"s in the Twin Cities. The union was great for the older guys, because they didn"t do a lick of work. The younger guys did all the work. Last fall I applied at a union shop in central Minnesota. The top wage was $5 less per hour than I was making as a machinist down here in Texas in a nonunion shop. I didn"t get the job. I had too much experience.
 
I only know of a few people who retired early. Average senority in my plant was 39 years a couple years ago. Average age about 60. We had some guys that had 50+ years. I retired with 30 years, @ 53. I would have liked to work until 59 or so, but my plant was closing. You cannot always choose your retirement date!! I think the biggest hit was the medical benefits. Pensions are controlled by the government, and are pretty predictable as to how much they will cost. The hourly pension fund had so much money in it, that it was considered overfunded, and GM did not have contribute to it, some years. The pension fund had enough money to fund the latest buyouts, the money came thru Fidelity, that's who manages GM pensions. Medical costs are not real predictable, and have been going up much faster than inflation. This health care thing is a monster that is consuming jobs in this country. One thing I read is that you will likely consume 80% of your lifetime healthcare expenses in the last 4 months of your life. I know my grandmother had to argue with the hospital about them wanting to hook my 91 year old grandfather up when he was dying. He was dying of alszheimers, but they wanted that bed filled.
 
No quality controle issues in Iowa, Its when a contract is let that is not state administered that the problem lies, everybody complains about government but this is what happens when they are not there.
 
I have one son in college and 2 others going soon. I see too many families that pay (or borrow) a fortune to send their children to college and when the child graduates there are only $12 - $14 per hour jobs available IF they can find one.
You have a chance to get paid training in an area that you think you might enjoy. Go for it!
If you find out that it isn't what you want for a career, you still have the training and documented experience to fall back on.
 
Yeah and look at how messed up the country is.You think things are so good now,wait until there are no unions and see how you like it.Most people that GRIPE about unions are rich people.Working people that still may have a choice,mostly prefer a union job if they know the difference.Why dont you quit being ignorant?It wastes a lot of time telling you off over and over.If you want to live someplace that agrees with your thinking go to China and live there.Report how well you like working in a non union shop over there.
 
What I meant was,people that gripe about unions arent the people doing the work.If you work at any job,and you can work in a union shop or a non union shop,which will the worker prefer?Union shop nearly every time.Of people who work for other people,trying to make a living,raising a family,which ones do better?Union medical insurance is usually way better than non union,just for starters.In 300 million Americans all of us cant own the company.The ones who dont own the company would rather work for a union than not.Now quit acting dumb,union is better,no question.Every job cant be union maybe,but a lot more of them can.Thats facts.All the crap on the radio,and most of the anti on here,is a dream.If there was 50% union and 50% non union the country would not be in this bad of a shape.The big lie thats being told is that Conservatives did better.Big lie.Conservatives dragged us down to ruin,and are still trying to every day drag us further down.Listening to Lindsay Grahm on the radio makes me so mad If Im driving down the road I have to pull off sometimes and get it off my mind.
I live in the country.Now coming home tonight I looked at my gas guage and noticed it was empty.Then I thought where can I get some gas.The closest place had to be 30 miles or more.In the 1970s there were a couple of places that I was driving through that had gas stations.They even pumped it for you.Nothing now,and even more people live in the little towns now than then.There was at least 4 times more people living on farms in the 1960s.Do you get where this is going?I dont like anything about these fools that ruined my country.The biggest ones are the Conservatives.Now we have a few big farmers where there was a couple of thousand in this county.They have this old wore out ground they try and sell for extremely high prices,but only the few guys farming are interested.I dont know why anybody wants to live here anymore.The whole place has gone stupid.
In the 1960s and 1970s unions got to about 40% of the workforce.Now what jerk is responsible for that being 8% now?
Now nobody is going to listen to you about a Davis Bacon act.However if the union was against it,or even if there was still 4 million farmers and they were against it,it would get fixed.Theres so few farmers now the crooks dont care what they think,and its about that way with unions.Did you learn something,I hope?When people work together its way better than when they work for themselves.The Conservative way of thinking that all the working peons have to give up more,so the rich can have more,is,and always will be wrong.Plus they arent even conservatives anyway.They are neo conservatives.That means conservative only until they get elected then become warmongers they always were.
 
I have been to your great Pennsylvania.There are holes in the Interstate highway you could loose a car in.Its a corrupt cess pool of foreigners and crooks and pollution.I drove over 60 miles with nio place to stop on a 4 lane road and finally just stopped on the highway,jumped out and took a leak.Iowa is in the United States.Pennsylvania is a foreign country.I hauled a load out for the great candy company in Harrisburg or close to it.After I delivered it to Kansas City I cleared 25 dollars.Have not been back since,and not going either.Arkansas has better roads than Pennsylvania.Also to get across the state cost a fortune in tolls.Iowa doesnt have toll roads.There is no part of Pennsylvania that I saw that was better,or even close to Iowa.
 
I am a long time union member and think every penny I spent on union dues was money well spent, but my advice would be different. Go in to the military, Navy SeaBees, Army Corps of Engineers or what ever the Air Force has. It does not take 4 years and union dues to learn how to operate a dozer or crane. I think 4 years of greasing a machine some journeyman gets to drive would get old.
 
I've been in the USW for 19 yrs. I can't say that it is perfect but I know that I have weathered a few downsizing "storms" and have been treated fairly because of it. Heck, we even voted ourselves a 4 year pay freeze to help the company. I don't have to have "blowers cramp" to keep my job. But I also have neighbor who works at GM. Hasen't worked in over a year and collects %90 pay. So you see it works both ways
 
I agree non-union that part of my answer was uncalled for.

However, I do not agree with your non-union attitude. You need too educate yourself on the labor movement from the 1800's thru the 1900's too fully understand.

The Bible is a great source of info from 70ad too the late 1800's. I'm not a holy roller, but I'm educated.

T_Bone
 
I'm with you there.

3rd generation union here, been in three different unions in my career but now have 23+ years in the IAM Machinist's Union

Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll be union till I die.
 
i am a member of the electricl workers union in michigan. i pay about 60 a month in dues when im working. 28 when laid off for paying that i get free insurance free retirement plan at 23% of my gross pay check. amd 26 dollars an hour. usually 60 plus hours a week. i worked 5 monthes last year and made 50,000 the economy sucks here but i still did pretty good union all the way
 
its people like you that give humans a bad name. every one conmplains about unions while they make 10 bucks an hour. how dare some one make good money right? the days of unions protecting lazy people and idiots like you are long over
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top