OT: Cow per acre

Does anyone have a idea of the most cows you could raise on any given amount of land? I work an 86 acre farm, right now we have 4 horses on it, maybe 13 fenced acres of pasture. We have about 20 acres in hay, and another 20+- acres in unfenced pasture land. What I was wondering is how many beef cows would 2000 bales of hay feed in the winter, with no grazing, here in NY, and the fenced pasture, and "unfenced" pasture support in the summer. Right now I have 3 beefers on 3 acres, but they get hay,and grass clippings everyday. I was thinking maybe 30 head for the above land??? Thanks JayinNY

You will probably get a 100 different answers for this one. I use 1.3 acres per steer for ungrazed land. Some will say 1.3 steer per acre. Somewhere in between would be safe I would assume. Use 2200lbs average crop from an acre along with 15lbs consumed per head per day.... You could play it safe and use 2 acres per a head for the first 18 months and recalculate from there.


Of course the local extension would be able to give you a more accurate answer (I hate that answer but it does pertain here).

As you will be told, it depends on the amount of grass you can grow, which depends on the moisture, soils, and climate you are in.

Rotational grazing will really help you out. Just 2 pastures won't quite do as well.

Where you are at maybe you can figure 1 to 2 head per acre of pasture, but there are times that will be too many and you will need to add some feed from somewhere. In parts of late spring you will end up with more grass than they can eat, but in late summer as it gets dry & hot & grasses go dormant - then you will run out of grazing. So 1 per acre won't be enough in late spring; but 2 per acre in late summer will be way too many.....

Having 4 or more pastures to rotate through will help you to balance things, and allow you to cut one for hay if it is a good grass year - save up for when you have a bad grass year.

Having 24 pastures really lets you mob graze, intensively graze, and make the _most_ use of your pastures. But it takes time to get there, but you might want to plan your pastures & watering for something along those lines down the road.

Some want to do all grass beef, others want to use a bit of grain all the time, kinda depends where you want to go with that part of it.

--->Paul

Thanks, I should have added, I dont want to have to buy outside hay, unless necessary, and I wont be feeding any grain, or maybe very little to catch some cows or get them into head locks. J

I know there is alot to take into conserderation, such as dry, wet ect.
One thing that has crossed my mind is fencing in the hay fields, so a few weeks, month, after 1st cutting hay, I could turn the cows out in the hay fields and let them harvest the grass, and fertilize it for me. Getting a second cutting of hay here has been impossible the last 2 years because its been so wet. Have to consider the labor and cost of fencing I suppose. J

You might want to think about cutting three or four times then. With that said and given the circumstances here I think you need to move slowly and ramp up slowly, less you have the money to buy feed in case you get in over your head.

We are in central Mo. At one time we had 70 head of cow calf pairs on a 314 acre farm. It was about half pasture/hay and half row crop. But we also fed corn silage to the old cows int he winter. That took 12 acres of corn.

Like others have said, work your way up. Dry years you will wish you had about half what you have.

You need to carry over about 60 days worth of hay each year, just in case.

Another thing, after my dad died, I kept about 20 head of cows, out of the 50. Those twenty were just as much work and expense as twice that number. You have the same fixed costs. Fencing, waterers, etc. Plus if some get out it is still the same hassle.

I am glad they are gone. Now when it is snowing and sleeting, I just smile, setting there by the fire in the easy chair.

Gene

Your question is like asking how long a rope is!

Stocking rates are dependent on the productivity of the pastures and that"s a function of soil, plant density, water, and management. We can typically carry about a cow per two acres on our irrigated ground. We have someone custom cut some hay on third of our ground and graze the other two thirds rotationally and then graze the hay pature in like August and September. We buy some alfalfa/grass hay for the last trimester feeding on the cows and we calve in the April-May time period to avoid having to feed a lot of expensive hay to the cow herd after calving.

I am confused are we talking milkers or beef?

Im talking pollard herfords, beef.

Were it me, and given your climate, I'd shoot for starting with 20 cows and adjust up or down after I got a feel for the land. But, with that said, in your present situation with hay on hand and it coming into winter I'd be really inclined to get 40 600-700 pound heifers, a roll of electric fence wire, a good 110 volt energizer and some electric posts. 4000 squares should run them 100 days of feeding without grass so with what grass is there you should have more than enough hay. Suppliment with a little corn glutten and soyhulls and come late spring sell half, buy a good EPD proven calving ease bull and turn him out the end of June. Then, come the next spring you are in the cow calf business. Right now, springer cows, that arent ready to retire are bringing a premium compared to what their calves are selling for. This leaves you a years without a calf crop to sell but it gives you a good herd of young cows. Plus, the 400 dollar heifers are a better buy than a 900 dollar cow.

I think 20 head might be a good starting figure. I'd suspect you could push 30 or a bit more where you want smaller cows like herfords... but MUCH will depend on the productivity you get from the pasture. If you're just kicking them out in the spring and leaving them... about a dozen would be enough. If you keep the fertility up and get adequate moisture, 30 probably won't be any problem until you get a dry year.
We've often pastured 40 1400# holsteins on 20 acres of annual ryegrass for most of the summer IF everythign works out right... but if something flops, you've got a big problem.
As already suggested, get a good HOT energizer if you've going to pasture them. Gallagher would be my pick...

Rod

come on Gene, I know you miss em whether you admit it or not.

I would make sure your water supply is adequate
whether it be spring or well.

Dad always said five acres for a cow with spring calf and 70 bales (small bales) to get them through the winter. Father-in-law always said if you had a good year and you had lots of grass left come fall, you had just the right amount.

I was told being a good beef farmer you first have to be a good grass farmer. In your case you are selling your grass in beef hide.
That is basically what everyone has said. Grass make grazing and hay, so do your best to raise as much good quality grass as possible. The more grass you grow the more grass you can sell in those hides and with lots of grass you will need more hides.

If you have limited acreage,the hay fields will be much more productive if you leave them out of it and bale/chop it.Cattle tramp/lay/crap on alot of good hay that they will eat around.

My father in law gave me a old grey box looking charger called International, it works great for them so far. The 3 never got out yet in the last 4 years. But with more fence and being its older I"ll keep that in mind. Thanks Jay

Ive always been told,No less than 3 acres per cow/calf pair on good improved pasture

That works.

However, if they graze it a lot in fall, your spring cutting will be less.

Manure distribution is not uniform, so the fertilizer boost is not all that great.

There is a trade off, but it can work.

--->Paul

Jay,, I believe it takes about 30/35 lbs of alfalfa/grass mix hay per cow, of course weather conditions has effect = freezing temps requires more hay.

giving them a little corn and oats will help,
it's a tough call, good luck, zeke

Gene, don't pay attention to railhead, he's a Bonehead, and talks with a Forked Tongue..

My dad had a friend who consistently carried one cow per acre, plus her calf (which was sold when weaned in the fall). Had 4 acres, and 4 cows. Rotational grazing, made hay when pasture got ahead of the cows, fertilized for maximum production. His hobby was agronomy, and he just wanted to see if he could do it. When you asked if he made or lost money on the operation, he just laughed, and said "But look at the fun I'm havin'."

One advantage- in western Washington, you can keep irrigated pasture going until December, so long as you fertilize adequately and never let grass go to seed.

Around the heart of KS, we always figured 4 acres per steer assuming they come in for a summer grazing season from May to September at around 450# and you want them to gain to sell them back to the feed lot for finishing at around 750-800#. If you want your pasture to last a 100 years in a natural cycle, then don't abuse it. Don't put cattle on grass until it is tall enough to sustain growth and take them off before it gets to short or it won't have enough top growth to maintain the root system over the winter and early spring resulting in decreased grass and more weeds the next year. Grass just needs time to recuperate. Any pasture no matter the size also needs to be separated in separate grazing units or you end up with spot grazing they will eat one spot bald and leave another spot hardly touched.

Too many cattle on grass and you have overgrazing problems. Grass is ate to short to recover and grow properly the next year. Weeds get worse and you spend more for spraying and the cycle goes on till you have to stop using it.

Allow cattle or horses on it outside of the growing season and you are asking for trouble. You will basically be turning your pasture into a dry lot. Then it might take a year or two to recover. I don't think your fenced pasture can handle your horses much less any cattle but I don't know NY grass.

Sounds to me like you are setting up more of a feed lot. Feed lots have specific fed, state, and local requirements for dealing with waste, etc and smell. You likely would need a local zoning permit along with state and fed permits. They are regulating waste, nitrogen, and other by products running off into streams. You could encounter major costs and fines for non compliance or failure to get a permit. As soon a neighbor complains or someone drives by and sees it.

And it doesn't sound like you have a business plan on when you are going to buy and sell and what you are going to do with all those cattle or even the kind and type of cattle. Who would you buy from and who would you sell to. Paying for transport, vet fees and medical, etc.

I assume this doesn't apply to you but around here they put people in prison who buy more horses and cattle than they can afford to feed or provide proper vet care for plus they pay the bill when all the cattle and horses get adopted out, including vet and transport bills.

You need to contact your county agent for proper advice in your area. Then the zoning and state people. There will be a legal definition for what stocking rate becomes something that is subject to state and local regulation. My relatives owned and ran feed lots, pastures, and grazing operations for years. It's near impossible around here to get zoning for a feed lot now and get state and fed approval for the waste lagoons, etc that go with it. It's worse on the coasts with all the green people regulating things. You are moving out of the realm of having a few riding horses and a few cows to put meat in your freezer.

How does your hay test out for feed quality? Gotta know that to determine how much to feed along with what you are feeding and the purpose of feeding if for maintenance of cows or weight gain of calves, steers, and heifers.

Good luck. I also assume your inquiry here is just a preliminary question to see what is feasible. Let us know what you find out after talking to the appropriate authorities.

What the flip is a , "Pollard Herford." Sounds like a rare auto from 100 years ago.