rear tires? Duals or wider tires?

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2009

Hey folks,
I think I know the answer but am a little thick headed. Looking at my owners manual like a monkey studying a math problem :roll:
Tractor is about 8N size German made farmall.
Situation: soupy
Current tire size: 10x28

About time for new tires. 10x28 are reasonable @ 260 bucks for a pair mounted. In order to get more traction and minimize damage to areas that I have no choice but drive on, I thought about going to wider tires. Which brings me to a couple questions..

1) how much wider would I have to go to make a difference worth mentioning.

2) would it serve the same purpose (or even be better) to stay with the original size and go to duals?

3) (this is where I'm slobbering over the manual) Should I be able to finnagle original equipment by rearranging bolts/mounting position to keep my existing outside width that I have with single tires?

A quick look at prices looks like I could get 4 10x28's at almost the same price as 2 14x28's and I could pick upan extra set of rims for a few bucks.

Or,would either choice just be a waste of time/money?

Thanks for any helpful advice.

Dave

VADAVE · Dec 12, 2009

Well 2 10X28 tires are wider then 1 14X28 so that arrangement will provide better floatation. To maintain your orginal outside dimension will pretty hard.
What I have learned in considering this is that 1) with duals you have to be pretty careful not to carry all the weight on the outside tire--over stress the axle and break it.
2) the easy way to mount duals is "clip on" here you just have the rim (no center) and with a ring to hold the rims apart you fasten the outer rim to the inner with what look like J bolts.
Last--Why buy new tires for the dual? Remember you want the outter tire to not carry all the weight so use the worn down tires as the outter tire that way when on more solid ground the carries its own weight and not much more.
Also the clip on can be easily remover.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2009

I'd have to keep everything under the fenders because I drive on the road to get to the soup so would have to manipulate the way the rims are bolted to the centers and maybe extend the fenders a little. Would the extra width serve the purpose (increase traction) or could it do more harm than good by causing me to swim?

Sorry for being thisc headed.

Dave

nickg · Dec 12, 2009

I know its hard to believe seein all us guys with our tractors all dualed up front and rear but its not to help get us threw mud its for traction pullin implements and stability. If its goin threw a bunch of slop a good wider tire works so much better then duals.You actually get a better bite with one bigger tire than duals in slop.Yes duals are prolly wider than a big singe but you have a void in between tires which means surface area not bein covered and not as much grip. Look at a log skidder it has large singles on it so they can slop threw things.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2009

I would consider how much of the time you need the extra flotation. If it os seasonal or special circumstances only, go with the duals and you don't have the extra width to contend with when not needed. If you need it all the time go with the wider tires.

JMHO

Areo

fixerupper · Dec 12, 2009

Really? I've had better luck in muddy cattle yards with skinny tires. Could be a difference in tire load/weight distribution too.Jim

BushogPapa · Dec 12, 2009

The next size up that would make any real difference would be 13.6x38", but you would probably need new rims for that size, so I would actually recommend 15.5x38" and 14" rims..

You didn't say want tractor you are working with...

On a JD "B", for flotation, I would use 13.6x38"..I have 12.4x38 on mine now and they do cut in and leave ruts more than I like..
If I find a good set of 11" rims, I am going to change to 13.6x38 and they won't look out of place on it..
Duals are a problem, if they ball-up in mud and you have to dig it out before you take them out on any road..sometimes I have resorted to removing the duals to get it cleaned out..!!
Not sure what tractor you have..if it is an early unstyled, 10x38 may already be an over-size..8" being the original size..
Do need Ag-type tires, or turf tires..??
Remember, 12.4x38 is the same as the old 10x38", so be careful which size you choose..!!

Ron..

Dean · Dec 12, 2009

Dave:

Probably the best solution for your situation would be 14.9x24 tires and rims. These so-called "floation" tires are about the same diameter as 13.6x28s but noticeably wider. Of course you will need new rims and wheel centers to use these.

A much less costly alternative would be 14.9x28s, which would require only new (wider) rims but you will certainly need to determine if these will clear your fenders as they are considerably larger in both width and diameter than your 10x28s. Note: these will noticeably increase ground speed due to the larger diameter.

Duals will no doubt be the most expensive alternative and likely not the best.

Dean

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2009

(quoted from post at 08:56:53 12/12/09)
Duals will no doubt be the most expensive alternative and likely not the best.

Dean

Just found a set of rims w/ about 40% tires for 50 bucks plus shipping (hundred +/- a couple total), but if it won't do the job, I don't need them laying around.

Dave

karl f · Dec 12, 2009

do you have to have the fenders full width of tire tread where you live? if so, how picky are they as to what a fender is?
baler or conveyor belting or some sheetmetal could be made into a so called fender for your wider tire use.

in some states of the USA, they have to have the marker/hazard lights near the extreme of the tires (not a bad idea for road travel!), but not necessarily the fender width extending that far.

karl f

old · Dec 12, 2009

This may sound strange but you need to look at both ends of the problem. Years ago my dad got duals for our 841 ford and he used them a lot in the creek to get gravel out. Well when I took over the tractor work I put wider fronts on it and took the duals off of it and they have not been one since. Yes it has a loader on it so the front is heavy and it has 13.6X28s on the back and I keep a back blade on it with 6 85lbs suit case weights on the blade. You need to look at the whole picture so as to get tings set up right because some times things like wider tires will just hold you on top of the soup and give you no traction

buickanddeere · Dec 12, 2009

Opinions vary.............
Certainly a tall narrow tire is much better on hard surfaes, in snow,ice, mud or wet "greasy" or grassy surfaces.
A wide flotation tire is best on sand or dry loose soil.

chevytaHOE5674 · Dec 12, 2009

Look at a log skidder it has large singles on it so they can slop threw things.

True "swamp loggers" often times run duals as they are cheaper than a wide single. IME

JDB · Dec 12, 2009

Down below you said you have to drive on the road to get to the soup. Mud and other stuff will pack between duels and come out when you go down the road. Is anyone going to fuss about mud being slung all over the road? Just a thought, I'm learning from this thread too.

Bob Bancroft · Dec 12, 2009

Based on my experience with an articulated tractor, a big front wheel assist tractor, and combines, I would prefer duals anytime. But yours is a different animal and a different situation. We have seen pictures of that tractor on here have we not?(with the canopy and the dog(s)attached)! I don't see how you could add duals without adding considerable width. I recently bought an antique 40 HP tractor that should have had 14.9x28 tires. It had 13.6x28. So I sold them and bought new 15" rims and put on 16.9x28. They stand a tiny bit taller, but not excessively so.

usetob · Dec 12, 2009

Duals are made for traction on dry ground, In the rice fields we only use duals with a 24" spacing, but singles were much better,
duals do help compaction!
good luck

Anonymous-0 · Dec 12, 2009

If you run a sickle mower bigger diameter tires will be a problem. I bought a mower that was used on a Ford 8N and it was useless on my 641 with the bigger tires. Ground speed too fast for the PTO speed.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 13, 2009

(quoted from post at 16:36:38 12/12/09) Based on my experience with an articulated tractor, a big front wheel assist tractor, and combines, I would prefer duals anytime. But yours is a different animal and a different situation. We have seen pictures of that tractor on here have we not?(with the canopy and the dog(s)attached)! I don't see how you could add duals without adding considerable width. I recently bought an antique 40 HP tractor that should have had 14.9x28 tires. It had 13.6x28. So I sold them and bought new 15" rims and put on 16.9x28. They stand a tiny bit taller, but not excessively so.

That's the one....
looking at my owners manual, it "LOOKS" like they would do the trick by manipulating the way they are bolted to the centers. If I could figure out how to convert the pic from .pdf to .jpg I'd post it. However, if the extra width would just make me swim on top of the soup, maybe I should just add weight to what I have? I have about a 600 pound weight for the 3pt but need to figure out how to get a hitch on it. Gonna put the loader back on so the frt will be heavier also.
As for the mud on the road question, if you have a green license plate (marks you as a farmer), you're usually OK. Some are curteious enough to shovel up the worst if they make a big mess on an intrance or something, but some just leave it lay.

One more ???. With 10 inch rims, how wide of tire could I put on and keep my rims? Or, how much wider than a rim can a tire be and still do the job?

Thanks, Dave

Bob Bancroft · Dec 13, 2009

If you are putting a loader on, then more than anything else you need weight on the rear end.
My tire book shows the following
10" rim- 11.2x28 tire,12.4x28 permissible
11"rim-12.4x28 tire,13.6x28 permissible
12"rim-13.6x28 tire, 14.9x28 permissible
13" rim-14.9x28 tire
and so on.....
I have seen combinations outside of these recommendations, but tire shape, and mounting and dismounting get to be issues.

rear tires? Duals or wider tires?

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