Retire your hay equipment!

E.B. Haymakin' · Dec 14, 2009

I was reading on the Alabama Cooperative Extension Service web site that one of their agronomists was recommending cattle operations in Alabama forage based grazing only due to the "challenging" times we are in. They say haying is too costly, and doesn"t return what it should in beef production with cattle prices as low as they are. May work in Alabama, but I doubt it would work in Nebraska. I also wonder how high hay prices would go in Alabama because I believe most hay produced is by cattle operations anyway. Horse people would really be hit if they didn"t have equipment. What do any of you think?

JMOR · Dec 14, 2009

(quoted from post at 12:49:13 12/14/09) I was reading on the Alabama Cooperative Extension Service web site that one of their agronomists was recommending cattle operations in Alabama forage based grazing only due to the "challenging" times we are in. They say haying is too costly, and doesn"t return what it should in beef production with cattle prices as low as they are. May work in Alabama, but I doubt it would work in Nebraska. I also wonder how high hay prices would go in Alabama because I believe most hay produced is by cattle operations anyway. Horse people would really be hit if they didn"t have equipment. What do any of you think?

think it is generally a good plan in the right climate/weather conditions for cattle........however, I keep a small emergency hay stash.....just in case.

ChrisinMO · Dec 14, 2009

We're in southern MO and don't get really cold winters, but it gets cold enough. My neighbor is over 80 and still runs a cow/calf operation. He doesn't make any hay. I don't know how many cows he has, but I'll guess maybe 60 or 70. He only feeds about 30 round bales per winter (tops). He markets his calves around Christmas time and calves in March and April. He only feeds hay when it gets bad weather, otherwise he moves the herd from field to field through the winter. I guess it helps a little bit that he's got a bunch of land that's paid for. Anyway, he's been doing it that way for at least the last several years and it works well for him.

Christopher

kyhayman · Dec 14, 2009

I can see the merit in there argument. Its the whole economies of scale thing. Most cattle farmers around here are part time and if they are trying to put up hay they are using old equipment. Between work schedules, equipment breakdowns, and out of stock or obsolete parts they end up making over mature, low quality hay.

Personally, I think its important to put a pencil to it and decide where one makes their profit. If its in hay, then cut back on cows and make hay right. If its in cattle then increase numbers, go to a more intensive grazing system, and buy hay. I'm picking up more beef cattle people every year who have figured out that for a thousand dollars or so more than what they were spending on fuel, repairs, supplies, and fertilzer they can have their haying done in a couple of days with better hay than they ever put up by buying it.

Its a decision I had to make 15 years ago. For me, Im not a cow man. I enjoy having them but they werent a profit center for me. I also wasnt selling the volume of hay I needed to sell to justify the amount of equipment I had. So, I sold half my cows keeping just enough to eat what unmarketable hay I typically had.

cj in wisconsin · Dec 14, 2009

6 plus months of no hay growth at all here, I would have some pretty po'd cows.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 14, 2009

I don't know that much haying equipment is getting retired in Manitoba, Canada, but there certainly is a lot more winter grazing than there used to be. It is no longer uncommon to see herds of beef cattle grazing all months of the year. It is now common to see alfalfa cut for hay once (late June), maybe again in August, then the fall reqrowth grazed in the winter. sure cuts down winter labour and manure hauling expense. Some breeds of cattle adapt better than others.

Formerly PaMike · Dec 14, 2009

Yup, I agree with Hayman on this one. I fall into the "part time cattle guy" catagory. I have abot 30 head. Currently have about 25K tied up in hay equipment. Just doesnt make sense. Only reason I keep making my own hay is because I love to do it. If I wanted to make money I would only have a skidsteer, a manure spreader, a feeder tractor and a bushhog.

kyplowboy · Dec 14, 2009

With 30 or so mammas and a full time job I can't pay for hay equipment. I tried, it don't work. My equipment has been setting for two years, well all of it but my rake. I could aford a good rake I can depend on. I have a neigbor custom cut and bale my hay. This past year he charged $17 for BIG bales net wrapped out of a brand new JD baler. He cut 30 acres in about 4 hours and baled it in about the same time. With my old 605C it takes me all summer to get that up with my work schedule, I didn't want to cut more than 7 or 8 acres at a time cause I didn't want it all down at one time cause I knew I was going to have something break. I know some folks don't mind it but when it's all said and done I think bale'n with an open station tractor sucks.

I always end up buy'n a little too. I can buy hay around here for $30 a bale. With the cost of fertilize and lime the last few years I can't beat that.

Dave

MN Scott · Dec 14, 2009

Well it sure wouldn't work here in SE MN. Right now there is 16 plus inches of snow covering everything. Cattle will not dig for forage like horses will. If cattle are grazed on alfalfa fields with snow covering they will compact the snow. That will cause severe winter kill under most conditions.

LAA · Dec 14, 2009

Nowdays,I try to keep something green and growing 12 months of the year. Trying to limit hay feeding and give the cows better, cheaper produced feed. I work away from home for extended periods of time and my Wife cannot do all that she once could do. The last few years I have built several mobile hay feeders with roofs that hold from 2 to 5 rolls and I can put out 6 weeks worth of hay at a time. I will never quit making some hay as long as I have stock because you have to have a back up plan but when I retire I will definitely expand the winter crops I am growing now. This is nothing new in my part of the country as the USDA and most Southern State extension services pushed pasture based livestock enterprises hard from WWII until the early seventies when fence row to fence row cash crops took back over. I hear people say you don't make enough money off cow/calf operations but I don't think I ever lost a dollar on a cow that lived long enough to have 2 calves. When my Wife and I were raisng four children and my salary was about 1/4 of what it is now those calves were our savings account, school clothes money, christmas account money, vacation money, you name it. I can't begin to put a value on the work ethic and life lessons my children learned in those hay fields and caring for livestock.

rrlund · Dec 14, 2009

Sure wish I lived someplace where I could pasture year around. I rememeber reading one time about an old boy in Kentucky who kinda strip cropped the side hills. He'd plant a strip of corn,a strip of hay,etc. Then he baled the hay with an old AC Roto Baler. He rolled the bales between the corn rows and left them there. After the rest of the pastures were gone and the corn was ripe,he'd turn the cows into the corn and hay. They'd eat the growing hay first,then the ear corn,the stalks and finally the small round bales. Said he never had to bring anything to the barn.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 14, 2009

I am part time here in Ga. with older but reliable equipment that is paid for. We bale our share for the cows that are running on pasture and then sell the excess for the horse, goat, and cattle farmers that dont have enough to get through winter. I dont know where alot of these recommendations come from sometimes. My sales have been steady for the past weeks but I have noticed that folks are unable to buy much excess like they have in past years. Mostly just what they need for a few weeks and then they get more when money is available. Tougher times for sure.

Mike (WA) · Dec 14, 2009

We put about 6-8 horses on 20 acres of "winter pasture" after everything else runs out- usually September or October. We've had them out there with no supplemental feed until New Years, then home to the hay. Reason for moving them is a hard freeze or the snow flies, both of which make it stop growing. Western Washington, by the way.

gitrib · Dec 14, 2009

This sound like a PHD setting at a desk pushing the what if buttons on a computer. Raising Alfalfa at 8 to 10 tons per acre selling for $160 to $180 looks like it would make some money. But you have to make good hay not junk.
gitrib

don rush · Dec 14, 2009

Must be an Auburn graduate.

James Howell · Dec 14, 2009

Maintaining old JD tractors, JD mowers, JD rakes, and KRONE balers = afraid to calculate.

Feeding Nancy's 4 horses and maybe 2 of [b:654c4848f0]glennster's[/b:654c4848f0] = afraid to calculate.

One happy wife = PRICELE$$.

E.B. Haymakin' · Dec 15, 2009

Absolutely right about the priceless equation.

However, mathmatically, please reconsider your previous equations, such as:
Maintaining old JD tractors, JD mowers, JD rakes, and KRONE balers = afraid to calculate. +=X (can"t be taken advantage of by market forces). = priceless in its own right.
Not to mention is the primary principle in wife equation.
Math class over.

James Howell · Dec 15, 2009

Seriously answering your question, Nancy and I decided many years ago to grow and harvest our own hay.

We definetly pay a premium for producing our Coastal Bermuda hay, but it is truely our hay; how we want it and when we want it.

Harvesting and selling the Bahia grass bales helps offset some of our fuel and property taxes.

I have the greatest respect for farmers and ranchers, if I had to make my living farming/ranching I'd starve to death.

glennster · Dec 15, 2009

james, they're not my horses!!!! but they sure are gonna like livin there in texas. i may have to get them some 10 gallon hats and giant belt buckles so they fit in down there!!!

Anonymous-0 · Dec 15, 2009

I have all the equipment needed to bale small bales. With the price of fuel,fertilizer,twine and paying the kids that helped. No one is will ing to pay what is needed to cover the cost. I plowed the hay field under. It is easyer to ride the tractor and plant soybeans then to bale hay anyway.

James Howell · Dec 15, 2009

Might also consider giving them some Spanish lessons.

robersw · Dec 16, 2009

Well, I am from north Alabama, and have heard these comments all my life. That said, my dad and I have been trying to establish a sufficient winter grazing program for years without enough success to drop hay completely. When you go between the flooding and the droughts, it becomes next to impossible to ever keep a solid stand year after year.

So with all of that said...we started putting up our own hay years ago. Our main reasoning, one that never seems to get mentioned in these discussions, is that when you are having someone custom bale for you, you are at the mercy of their schedule, not yours. We went year after year watching our great stands fall over and lose almost all value while waiting for "our hayman" to work us into his schedule. Then there is also the fact that all of this waiting knocks out any potential of third and dare I dream fourth cuttings.
This year was the perfect example for putting up one's own hay, it was so wet that custom cutters weren't finishing their first cuttings until July, when we were getting our second cutting.

These are just of few of what I believe are lots of benefits to putting up your own hay, that I believe are always overlooked in haymaking discussions.

Also, we use reliable but older equipment (10-15 yrs old, 25+ for tractors) for all of our work as well.

Retire your hay equipment!

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