1950 Farmall A wont start, HELP!!!

Farmall or Nothing · Dec 23, 2009

:?: [size=18:09bae68f95][color=red:09bae68f95]My father has a 1950 super a that we got restored. It was my great grand fathers. Last year, we were taking it to a parade and we drove it there, once we got there we turned it off til the line up would start. We went to start it and well, nothing. We were told to that the coil maybe bad. (Might be the orginal). We put a new coil, has new points and condenser and also new cap, and rotor button. And still nothing, we are left to belive the mag is bad. Anyway to test is? Have we missed something? The only thing we havent replace are the wires, is that the likely cause of no spark? We are hoping tgo get it going for the parade this year, while we are trying to restore my 1940 A. thank ahead of time for all of your help!![/color:09bae68f95][/size:09bae68f95] :?:

Janicholson · Dec 23, 2009

Nice red paint on the posting, (use upper and lower case letters it is much easier to read)
The impulse coupling might have quit working. This clicks loudly when cranking if it is not working, the tractor can be pull started (be careful and do it with an experienced tow and starting person) if it clicks loudly when cranking, it is possible that the internal mag timing is Off. It must be set to the tooth marks on the gears inside where the points are. Point gap is .013".
Turn it to where #1 plug is at Compression TDC, to the mark. as you do it should click just at the mark. If it clicks the mag to engine timing is OK, and the impulse is apparently working.
Look at the rotor it should be pointing toward, but not perfectly at #1 plug wire terminal in the cap. The archives also have many answers to mag issues. Search for Timing a Farmall Magneto. Jim

gene bender · Dec 23, 2009

The 1950 Super A has a dist. You need more info does the rotor turn do the plugs fire. It ran when you shut it off so there cant be too much wrong. What rlse have you checked.

Janicholson · Dec 23, 2009

He called it a mag, so I gave him the info related, We need more data to help better. If it is a distributor Gap is .020" set on the high point of distributor cam. Mags were an option I believe. Jim

El Toro · Dec 23, 2009

If you have a distributor you need to make sure
you're getting battery voltage to the coil. With the ignition switch in the on position and the points open you should have battery voltage on both small terminals. If you have voltage pull the coil wire from the cap and hold near a good ground. Then snap those points open and close a few times and see it get fire. Your posting is a little vague since you said you have nothing. Does that mean the engine won't crank over using the starter? Is it an A or a Super A? Your post calls for an A, but you are referring to your dad's Super A. The A could have a mag or a distributor. If its a mag or distributor you should clean the points with a point file or some 320 wet or dry. Then see if it will start. Hal
PS: Point gap on a mag is .013" on a distributor its .020".

Dick L · Dec 23, 2009

The very first thing I do in a case like that is to run a wire directly from the battery to the coil if it has a distributor . If that does not let it start then with the wire still connected take the distributor cap, rotor and point cover off and check for spark at the points.
You would need to know that you had power to the coil and points before you could check other things.
I have had switch problems more than any other part going bad when they quit as you stated. Even a switch wire breaking off at the switch. Some Olivers even have a fuse between the switch and the coil.

VADAVE · Dec 23, 2009

If you have a coil you do not have a magneto. Detemine that first.

teddy52food · Dec 23, 2009

Since when didn't a magneto have a coil?

Farmall or Nothing · Dec 23, 2009

The engine cranks- The impluse works- Can the mag timimg be off if it was running before?- We did pull start it and it ran a few feet and died.- We are not getting any fire at the plugs. We have also by passed the switch by putting a wire from the battery to the screw on the side of the mag, and still no fire.- We have cleaned off the points- It is a Super A with a MAG- With the switch by passed the fuse/ switch would be eliminated correct? Sorry about being vague, we just arent very experienced with mags. Tried to answer as much as possible, we are going to try to get spark at the points as Hal has stated. Thank you all!

El Toro · Dec 23, 2009

If you have a mag and ran battery voltage to it you may have fried the coil. A mag creates its fire when the magnets pass by the coil. You only use battery voltage with a distributor. Hal

Dick L · Dec 23, 2009

Running a hot battery wire to the side of the magneto can be a bad thing. I can cause smoke come from the magneto coil rather out the exhaust where you would rather see it.
A magneto makes its own electricity. A distributor gets its electricity from the battery.
If you lucked out the magneto coil is still good.

Dick L · Dec 23, 2009

since always.

Here be a coupla magnetos. One with the coil and one without.

Pete7 · Dec 23, 2009

Hi... I know your post said you were not getting any "fire to the plugs", but how did you determine that? Do you have a spark at the main distributor wire?
Take that wire you put from the battey to the mag off. The wire from the ignition kill switch to the side of the mag only grounds out the mag to stop the ignition. The mag does not get power from the battery. The purpose of a mag is to generate it's own power to the ignition system.
Pete

El Toro · Dec 23, 2009

Here's another mag with a coil, its off a StandardTwin garden tractor. The magnets are dead. Hal

El Toro · Dec 23, 2009

Does the tractor have hydraulics? Hal

Chris5 · Dec 23, 2009

I have a John Deere M with the same problem and was going to let it sit til spring. I tested it the way El Toro said to. There is spark at the coil wire but not the spark plug wires. Whats wrong??? Brand new cap and rotor on it too.
Thanks for any help
Chris5

Chris5 · Dec 23, 2009

I have a John Deere M with the same problem and was going to let it sit til spring. I tested it the way El Toro said to. There is spark at the coil wire but not the spark plug wires. Whats wrong??? Brand new cap and rotor on it too.
Thanks for any help
Chris5

Chris5 · Dec 23, 2009

I have a John Deere M with the same problem and was going to let it sit til spring. I tested it the way El Toro said to. There is spark at the coil wire but not the spark plug wires. Whats wrong??? Brand new cap and rotor on it too.
Thanks for any help
Chris5

Farmall or Nothing · Dec 23, 2009

We are getting spark from the coil- But still not from the plug wires- (Put wire end that goes to the plug to a ground- no spark)thinking maybe rotor button, cap or wires? whats ur thoughts?

Farmall or Nothing · Dec 23, 2009

Yes it does- pump is messed up though- think it may need to be rebuilt

Anonymous-0 · Dec 23, 2009

Holy moly this thread has given me a headake, heart break or something, somebody just start over so this man can fix his tractor,please.

Farmall or Nothing · Dec 23, 2009

mag with a coil

ohiojim · Dec 23, 2009

if you have no fire to the plugs,..how do you get it to run by pulling ??????????

old popper · Dec 23, 2009

Double check the condenser. I put new points & condenser in my John Deere G one timeand had the same problem. No fire at plugs. The condenser was not rated the same as the old one. Put the old condenser back in and it fired right up.

Dick L · Dec 23, 2009

It will probly take pictures or someone standing there looking at it. Seems word descriptions and the understanding of the magneto concept and how it works have been confusing.

Janicholson · Dec 23, 2009

If there is a coil separate from the device you call a mag, the situation may be complex. But not a problem. If the thing with the spark plug wires coming out of a cap has a squarish shape with a black hump on it, and there is a snapping noise as it is cranked, it has a magneto on it. This magneto should make its own electricity, but several have been left inoperative. A patch of the system is to use the mag as if it were a distributor. To do this the mag (with its internal coil) is changed inside by disconnecting the internal coil from the points, and using the points and internal condenser to operate an external coil. The points will then be used to fire the regular coil through the connection formerly used to stop the engine (kill switch, ground through the mag original switch)
So if this is the case, a wire with voltage from the battery (6volts) will go to a new switch.
From the new switch the voltage will go to the coil negative side. From the coil Positive side a wire will go the the connection on the side of the mag (former kill terminal). If the points are not burned to a crisp by putting voltage to the wrong place, my setup should be correct. JimN

ScottyHOMeY · Dec 23, 2009

As others have said, putting a hot wire to that screw on the side of the mag may or may not have toasted the coil inside the mag.

In the ordinary congiguration, the purpose of that wire is only to ground the mag out to stop the motor by closing the switch circuit to ground. With thaty circuit open the wire does nothing and the mad is free to generate its own fields to make the spark.

The only time you can put a hot wire onto that screw and get it to run is if you've disconnected the wire from the internal coil of the magneto from the points and condenser (that screw goes into a double threaded fitting that fits over the terminal on the condenser). Even that requires an external ignition coil between your hot wire from the battery and the terminal on the side of the mag, and routing the center "coil" wire from the cap to the external coil instead of the magneto. It sounds makeshift, but it's a workable solution that's seen occasionally. The effect is to use the distributor mechanism of the magneto unit, but isolate it from the magneto itself (the magnets and coil) and use an external coil to build the field you need to make a suitable spark.

It's a long shot, but might you have somethin' like that on there, a magneto body, but an external igntion coil somehwere in the area?

ScottyHOMeY · Dec 23, 2009

Here we are typin' at the same time again.

That usually happens earlier in the morning than this late at night!

It sounds like he may have that setup, and I like your description/explanation better.

Pete7 · Dec 23, 2009

Hi..If you are getting a spark from the coil then that gives us a better place to start trouble shooting. I'm assuming you are calling your mag a coil cause you said you had a mag. So, I'm assuming you have spark when you remove the central wire going into the distibutor and touch it close to ground while cranking the engine. That means your mag is working OK and for that to work your points and condensor are working also. (This further assumes you had a good strong spark) So you need to check things out "downstream". Look at the rotor, the 4 contact parts of the distributor cap. Also the contact button between the rotor and the mag wire. See if any plugs are getting a spark by taking each one out of the engine and ground the plug to the engine while turning the engine over and see if a spark jumps the gap. If not clean the plug up real good and try that check again. Or better yet try it with a know good spark plug. Summer weather plugs can easily get real fouled in cold weather,real fast in a little used Super A and it will seem like there is no spark when it's just fouled plugs. But the key is to isolate the different components and check them out. I doubt it's anything serious since it was running OK before it stopped. Once we know you have a good spark at the spark plugs we can focus on other possibe problems, like fuel.
Pete

olgentdc · Dec 23, 2009

My thoughts exactly ..LOL ,, chuckle .,and MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU WGWKy,, thats WHY I LUV this Forum ! ,.. sure got a lot of good minds at work out there for what guys like Us would consider to be a simple problem,, but all the same it is very good to review the checklist ... Ya never know when a Guy might forget sumthin"

1950 Farmall A wont start, HELP!!!

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