New purchase

Well i wanted to thank you for everyones input on my tractor purchase.
Well i have had a huge responce on this matter some agree with the stop payment and a couple does not but hey they need to get up at 3.30 everyday when i do to go to work in order to pay for this.
Well my mind has been made up they can come and get the tractor bring my old one back. After i posted the orignal message i found today the parking brake does not work and also the center link that i got is not the correct one it will not adjust out enough to hook up to any thre point equipment. I am afraid there will be no end to these problems so i will look some where else to buy this tractor. Thanks to everyones input .

So you want a whole new tractor because the parking brake needs to be adjusted and you don't have a book yet.

I bet the local dealers run and hide when you come in the door.

What do you do when a REAL problem comes along?

It's his money, not yours.

What do you do when real problems come along... From what I have read, that is what he is concerned about and wants to bail before then. I do not blame him for being ------.If they cannot get the simple things done I would have no faith they could handle anything important either.
What is your problem with his complaints? Is that how you treat your customers? Is that how you would like to be treated?

Congrats. I think both you and the dealer will be much happier.

Rod

Good decision. Once you stopped payment of the check there was/is no way to have a decent relationship with this dealer. You burned your bridge and now you are making the best of it since you can't go back.

Here's a few more pieces of advice that are worth exactly what they cost you.

1) Don't pay until delivery, and be home to accept or reject delivery based on how well they do as agreed. You know how I feel on stopping the check--don't put yourself in a situation where you might be tempted again.

2)Get EVERYTHING you want in writing on the sales agreement that you both sign, and be firm but polite in telling them that all points agreed to MUST be done as in writing, upon delivery BEFORE YOU WILL PAY. (You might have to put up some partial payment upon ordering, but don't pay in full.)

3) Realize that no one is perfect, and be understanding when the little things get overlooked, but politely point to the contract and say once all is done/corrected, you will be glad to pay as in the sales contract.

4) Don't over-react again. Yes, you have a right to expect proper treatment, but always put yourself in the other party's shoes and BEHAVE HONORABLY. Just keep smiling but don't pay in full until contract is honored, and remind the new dealer of why final $$ isn't coming yet if something like this happens again.

5) If I owed 10,000 at delivery and something worth a couple hundred dollars wasn't right, I'd show good faith and pay maybe 9 thousand or so with a promise of prompt payment when the small item is corrected. I wouldn't hold back ALL the money on a small point of contention even if the contract stated I could. I would show good faith and prove I was a reasonable guy by paying most of the amount due anyway--but I'd keep back enough to protect myself. You show you are reasonable and honest and most people will respond likewise.

6) I really think you need to admit to yourself that you over-reacted, and be glad you can walk in a different dealership with a clean slate. The best way to react if you get clipped is to try to work towards a civilized agreement, and if you can't get it resolved completely, just walk away and take your business with you. Don't burn your bridges. Forever is a long time.

Moral of the story: Be polite but firm, always look out for yourself in a gentleman-like way, and just walk away if things aren't corrected. Leave the door open for your return, even if at the time you don't ever want to come back. Some day you might want to be able to.

Good decision at this juncture.

5) If I owed 10,000 at delivery and something worth a couple hundred dollars wasn't right, I'd show good faith and pay maybe 9 thousand or so with a promise of prompt payment when the small item is corrected. I wouldn't hold back ALL the money on a small point of contention even if the contract stated I could. I would show good faith and prove I was a reasonable guy by paying most of the amount due anyway--but I'd keep back enough to protect myself. You show you are reasonable and honest and most people will respond likewise.

I don't think the dealer will complete the deal if the entire purchase price is not recieved. If there is an outstanding balance I wound'nt pay a nickel untill the entire contract was satisfied. Most items can be sent in overnight so there is no reason all parts of the deal cannot be complete when the paper work is finished. If a part of the deal is missing an addendem to the contract should be written and both parties will agree and sign as to what is missing. Word of mouth is not what it used to be.


Russ

Well put. Unreasonable customers can eat up a lot of time and money and tend to never have nice things to say no matter what you do for them!

Good for you. Maybe that dealer will smarten up on the next tractor purchase. The dealer is responsible to set the tractor up and make sure everything works properly. In fact most equipment is required to be set up by the dealer and not the purchaser because of liability and warranty issues. The dealer here that used to sell MF and NH said the MF out sold the NH because they were better tractors. I don't think you over reacted at all. I think the dealer under reacted and it cost them a sale. Not to smart in todays economy. I'd still right a letter to NH head office about your experience. Dave

Here'e where you seem to seperate from reality.

1.Got the tractor on tuesday.

2. Unable to understand why minor problems weren't taken care of immediately even though everyone is gone for the holidays.

It doesn't sound like the dealer did anything for him except take his money and literally leave him high and dry. You have to have some customer service in order to keep customers. Dave

I've done it many of times. Just a month ago, a "new" to me tractor was delivered w/o the duals that were part of the deal. I kept back $4000, and paid the rest. I could have said, "no money until you give me everything in our purchase agreement", but I felt I shouldn't keep $50,000 over a small item when I had the vast majority of what I had coming. No one at the dealership complained. Duals showed up a few days later, delivery guy went home w a check for $4000. I CAN happen. Dealers WILL "complete the deal", as you put it. I don't have a reputation for throwing fits over nothing, so that may help.

What you are doing is the smart thing to do. Once I spent over 150.000 to upgrade the boilersystem in my greenhouse.I dealt with a reputable company.There was a 3 month delay in setting the boilers up then they only worked on 50% capacity and they wouldn't believe me.I phoned them for about one year every week and they alway's asked me to check for other things then when their technician came out for the fouth time I the farmer noticed that the fan's ran in reverse so the farmer fixed the problem But if they had listened to me to begin with it could have been resolved a lot sooner.
Bottom line When the supplier has their money then it's your problem'I'm so frustrated with people that don't stand behind their product.
So thumbs up for you.

Your a jerk/ Dealers must realy like to Run all OVER YOU.BILL DID THE SAME THING I DID 30 Years A go.

You did The Right Thing ! It Is Your $$$/Local Dealer'''s Son was the Service Manager,thought it didnt matter that Our New Tractor was having HYD Problem ,I got Mad And Told Him If they didnt get it fixed it was going to Change Colors, and all our Busness wound allso be Leaving,still thought was Funny, till I Said I would be Call the Company about there Service and Waranty on the tractor,and we were told Not To Use It,Till They Got around to fix it.MY Dad Said I Aint Paying over $1100 a month to LOOK AT IT !They were here the next mornng,looked at it ,3 hours later there was a NEW Tractor here to use FREE of Charge ,ours didnt come back for 3 weeks !But was fixed right.Some times You Just Have to STAND YOUR GROUND,GOOD JOB BILL!!!!!!!!!!

What exactly is a REAL problem? The tractor rolling down a hill and running over someone because the parking brake didn't work from day one, should qualify. Don't laugh, stuff like that happens all the time. Poor customer service is also a REAL problem, in this case for the dealer. They lost a sale because of their own doing, not his. If he didn't want the NH tractor he wouldn't have bought it in the first place. He paid good money and got terrible service from the dealer before he could even use the tractor. He was more than justified in cancelling the deal and I'm sure a lot of other people would have as well. It's unacceptable to treat customers like that if you want repeat business or referrals. Why is that so hard to understand? Dave

I would SO very much LOVE to hear the other side of this one.
In my dealings with people over firewood and hay... I can think of a couple people who REQUIRED that the red carpet be rolled out for them and their feet kissed in thanks for their business. Funny; some of them can't seem to or won't pay their bills either.
The last one (that owes several hundred for the past 10 years) called looking for a 1 cord order (but was willing to settle for 2 cord), blocked down to kindling, yesterday....
When, after a week we hadn't sorted enough out of the pile (because we were filling orders for actual paying customers) to meet his order, he called back and cancelled.
You know what? It pleased me to no end. I doubt he'd have had the money if I got there anyway... and the gate wasn't getting sprung this time unless I had the CASH in MY hand.
But... I'm sure I'm simply known as a no good schit because I didn't get there right away and bow down... Lost a lot of sleep over my poor customer service.

Rod

1. Paid $26,000 for a new tractor in a tough economy.

2. Tractor was not delivered as ordered or set up properly.

3. Dealer laughs and thinks it's a joke.

4. Dealer loses $26,000 sale due to their own stupidity.

Did I miss something? Dave

(quoted from post at 00:46:44 12/28/09) 1. Paid $26,000 for a new tractor in a tough economy.

2. Tractor was not delivered as ordered or set up properly.

3. Dealer laughs and thinks it's a joke.

4. Dealer loses $26,000 sale due to their own stupidity.

Did I miss something? Dave

Click to expand...

Dave,... I think you pretty well covered it.

It wouldn't surprise me, if this very same "dealer" thinks he should get good customer service and respect (as a "paying customer") when he BUYS from some other business.

Are you guys in some kind of dope induced haze?

On a holiday this guy finds out his parking brake needs to be adjusted and he can't figure out why it hasn't been fixed yet.

One more time... What do you "guys" do when a REAL problem comes along in life if you can't handle some simple ones with out having a stroke over it?

I'm glad I am well adjusted enough in life so I don't have to search the internet for a bunch of like minded women that will cry with me over tiny troubles.

(quoted from post at 06:19:01 12/28/09) Are you guys in some kind of dope induced haze?

On a holiday this guy finds out his parking brake needs to be adjusted and he can't figure out why it hasn't been fixed yet.

One more time... What do you "guys" do when a REAL problem comes along in life if you can't handle some simple ones with out having a stroke over it?

I'm glad I am well adjusted enough in life so I don't have to search the internet for a bunch of like minded women that will cry with me over tiny troubles.

Click to expand...

Well, you must be a rich guy, spending over $20k on a purchase and you don't mind if someone bends you over?? Granted we haven't heard the otherside, but why would you not complain when you aren't getting what you paid for?? I've received better service buying items under $5k than this guy is getting for a much larger purchase. You can call him a whinner, girl or whatever, but it's his money and someone else shouldn't receive it until he's satisfied. Do you work at the dealership that is bending this guy over??

Are you also unable to grasp that the parking brake issue was discovered on CHR1STMAS and he is unable to figure out why it wasn't repaired immediately?

Maybe it's different where you live. But around here, you can't get much done on Chr1stmas.

And I stand by my original assessment. WAY TOO MUCH WHINING!!!!!!!for some simple and easy to fix problems.

Why should a brand new tractor need repairs before it's even used? Why do dealers charge extra for setting up machines if they don't even check everything over? I don't know how you would ever be able buy anything with an agreement. The dealer would get so confused trying to figure who are you are that by the time they did, the machine would be obsolete. Dave

You've never seen anything stick/seize up on a new tractor that sat around the lot for months? I have. Stuck clutches come to mind immediately.
It happens. It ~should~ have been caught in a final pre-delivery inspection... but you know what? I'd be willing to cut them some slack this time of year.
Last week was a short/half work week for most people I think. If the deal was done monday and delivery expected tuesday, it didn't really leave much time did it? Mechanics were probably busy trying to clean up other jobs on down equipment to clean the shop out for christmas because probably some of those customers ~really~ needed the gear back... so doing a check over or fixup on something minor may not have been TOP priority. The same as rounding up a bunch of books that could be scattered throughout the premesis might not have been TOP priority. Sometimes, in the real world, everything can't get done all at once.
I wonder was an ultamatum given that the tractor be delivered at SUCH AND SUCH a time or the deal was off?
I'd wager that it probably was done that way... and you know what? The dealer probably gambled that they'd be dealing with a reasonable person who'd allow them to straighten things up in the coming days. Lookin' like the gambled wrong on that, but hey...
I hope all you big boys and high rollers know that despite the trash talk from salesmen about their competitors, I think you'll find they ALL talk to each other on a pretty ~regular~ basis and maintain a fairly good freindship in some cases. They might cut each others throats for a deal, but they know who the good customers are and who the miserable ones are. So... you back out on this fella today, his buddy down the road is apt to hear about it before long... and when he sees you coming.... you can be darn sure there's a price for YOU.
Why... I gathered a wealth of information, great and sundry from two salesmen who landed in my yard one day last spring. For 20 minutes they ------ and hissed at each other trading shots... but we all found out where each was, where he was going, what he was selling to whom and a few other bad deals that went down in places near and far.
Be tough if you want, but I've always found that I got more with honey than vinegar.

Rod

(quoted from post at 15:03:46 12/28/09) You've never seen anything stick/seize up on a new tractor that sat around the lot for months? I have. Stuck clutches come to mind immediately.
It happens. It ~should~ have been caught in a final pre-delivery inspection... but you know what? I'd be willing to cut them some slack this time of year.
Last week was a short/half work week for most people I think. If the deal was done monday and delivery expected tuesday, it didn't really leave much time did it? Mechanics were probably busy trying to clean up other jobs on down equipment to clean the shop out for christmas because probably some of those customers ~really~ needed the gear back... so doing a check over or fixup on something minor may not have been TOP priority. The same as rounding up a bunch of books that could be scattered throughout the premesis might not have been TOP priority. Sometimes, in the real world, everything can't get done all at once.
I wonder was an ultamatum given that the tractor be delivered at SUCH AND SUCH a time or the deal was off?
I'd wager that it probably was done that way... and you know what? The dealer probably gambled that they'd be dealing with a reasonable person who'd allow them to straighten things up in the coming days. Lookin' like the gambled wrong on that, but hey...
I hope all you big boys and high rollers know that despite the trash talk from salesmen about their competitors, I think you'll find they ALL talk to each other on a pretty ~regular~ basis and maintain a fairly good freindship in some cases. They might cut each others throats for a deal, but they know who the good customers are and who the miserable ones are. So... you back out on this fella today, his buddy down the road is apt to hear about it before long... and when he sees you coming.... you can be darn sure there's a price for YOU.
Why... I gathered a wealth of information, great and sundry from two salesmen who landed in my yard one day last spring. For 20 minutes they ------ and hissed at each other trading shots... but we all found out where each was, where he was going, what he was selling to whom and a few other bad deals that went down in places near and far.
Be tough if you want, but[b:c3575db739][color=red:c3575db739] I've always found that I got more with honey than vinegar.[/color:c3575db739][/b:c3575db739]

Rod

Click to expand...

Gee,... what a concept, maybe more dealers ought'a give it a try. :roll:

Oh my... red letters for the red carpet crowd.
Best of luck to you.

Rod

Since we're guessing what might have happened, maybe he asked for the manual at the time the deal was made so he could read up on his new purchase? Maybe he waited a week or more and still never got the manual, so he told them not to deliver the tractor without it? Maybe they kept making excuses? Time of year makes no difference and excuses don't cut it. What if the wheels fell off? The dealer is responsible for pre delivery inspection and set up. In addition to not doing that, they din't even bother to put more than a few drops of fuel in it. If somebody wants to take my money, the least they can do is respect that I gave it to them and not their competition. The dealer messed up, plain and simple. Being brand loyal is one thing but siding with this dealer? I wouldn't deal with any dealer that treated me that way. My dad was a salesman for over 40 years and set many sales records. He was appointed directly by the OEM to be the salesman for several major brands of commercial turf equipment including Toro and Jacobsen, the 2 biggest. The proper thing to do if you show up somewhere without an appointment and another salesman is there, is to leave and come back another time. Other salesmen knew my dad and thought there was something fishy because he sold to places where they couldn't even get in the door. The reason he set sales records was because he went out of his way for his customers and they stayed loyal for 40 years because of it. When my dad passed away in 1997 he had about a 90% market share, the highest in Canada! He was at the point where customers would call him if they needed anything. It's all about customer service and knowing your product. If you don't have that in todays economy, you won't survive. Dave

It would be nice to hear the rest of the story....
but I can certainly tell you that I've NEVER paid for ANYTHING before delivery, and in the case of tractors or larger equipment it was anywhere from 1 week to 1 month before the paperwork was done. It was never a big concern. This... being paid for before delivery.... sounds pushy to me. PUSH, PUSH, PUSH. Mabey the dealer asked for the money up front, mabey not... but it would be out of character here. For ANY dealer I've dealt with, regardless of color. The tightest... I've bought stuff, AS IS, WHERE IS and it was paid for on loadout. Never before.

I really don't know what world you live in, but nearly everything here shuts down the week of Christmas to just about a crawl. Most places were still closed YESTERDAY with the exception of one industrial supply in town where there was a guy there because someone called him out in an emergency.
I also noticed the local FortMac crew was all home early last week, and are all STILL home, so I assume those projects are/were on full shutdown at that point...

If some of this stuff went on during a slack week in the middle of Feburary I might look at it differently... but this time I'd tend to cut the dealer some slack, if for no other reason than there seems to be one hell of a sense of entitlement going on in this thread. Just because someone drops 25K on a new tractor doesn't mean they get the throw their weight around and expect to have their arse kissed. Sorry.
Mabey some big operators get away with that crap because the volume of business they do is significant enough to be damaging if the dealer lost that business... but losing this one won't hurt them too much.
They used to talk about a deal that was done in this area years ago on a Ford 7840 in which the selling dealer made and ASTOUNDING 100 bucks. Yes, you read that right. One Hundred dollars over his cost. He worked on that for months trying to get the tractor in the yard all the while they played the Deere dealer down to match it. The thanks? Next time they went and bought a new Deere anyway. Now would you really work yourself up to do a deal with that guy next time? Sure as hell I wouldn't. What would I lose if I didnt'?
That's right. Nothing.
I know there's some miserable bastards out there in sales. I've dealt with some of them in car dealerships... but as a general rule I find farm equipment, industrial equipment and farm supply salesmen to be a different breed entirely. You treat them fair and with respect and more often than not they'll do the same. The ones that don't... have no need to return here.

...and having two salesmen in the yard here at once? Since one traveled 200 miles and the other over 300 and both had established that I wasn't buying anything at the moment, there wasn't much need to make appointments. If I had been looking they could get back to me by phone once they checked their inventory and did their pricing. They were both just 'visiting'.... something they tend to do once or twice a year as time allows when they're in the area.
Strange concept?

I'm sure you also know that many of those small tractors are crated upon arrival at the dealership and final assembly is in their shop. Setup and pre-delivery stuff would probably have been done THEN, whenever it arrived. They ~should~ have checked it again to make sure everything worked right... but for whatever reason they didn't or missed this. Who knows why...

Rod

I really don't know what world you live in, but nearly everything here shuts down the week of Christmas to just about a crawl.

Click to expand...

UP here it was business as usual until Thursday and back to work on Saturday.

but as a general rule I find farm equipment, industrial equipment and farm supply salesmen to be a different breed entirely.

Click to expand...

I've dealt with just as many terrible salesman in industrial, logging, and farming equipment as I have in automobiles.

Do notice I said 'general rule'...
I've dealt with a few sleazy ones here, and some that I just didn't like very much. Car dealers... I've yet to find many that I got along with at all. I can think of mabey one or two at most that were decent.

Rod

You did the right thing. Now, stay away from that dealer. Your relationship with that dealer cannot be fixed, ever. Tom