O/T Not Political,but oil is going up again

I cannot catch a break, I waited to buy fuel, and low and behold oil is going up now. I was hoping at some point it would come down, and diesel might go under $2.50 a gallon in my area. Oh well, will we see the 140 dollar barrel again? So much for Obummers recovery.

I usually don't contract propane, but I did in Fall of 2009 for about $1.20 a gallon. I was pretty sure that since the EPA shut down a lot of drilling that the price would go up. Sure enough. Currently the cash price for propane in my area is $1.68 a gallon. Gas is getting closer to $3 a gallon and by the time spring planting will be here, I'm pretty sure it will be higher.

Again but not political.

Recovery means higher energy costs.
It is one of the things we will get with recovery.

Look forward to $4 gas it will mean we have recovered.
Sad but true.

No, you and I or anyone else wont recover, just the goverments pockets, :>

Kruse, I am at the Florida Flywheelers site and there is a propane truck that will fill your motor home tank for $3.75 a gallon. I am glad that my tank only needed 8 gallons I paid $1.80 back home before I left. I had 24 degrees down here this morning so a furnace was well needed.

There wont be any recovery if the price of fuel goes up.I think its about time to demand our government stop this ignorant stock market from ruining our economy.I know its hard on them since the stock market crooks have them bought off,but if the get the idea they are going to get strung up if they dont stop it,maybe we can have a recovery.This Enron bunch manipulating the stock market has to go to prison.The sooner the better.Any politician that wont deal with it needs to go to prison with them.Also they keep devaluing the dollars and claim thats why oil is higher.What do they think we are,stupid?

As someone else posted on here some time back:

We need term limits

One term in office, the next term in prison.

BOTH sides

Thats's how we do it in Illinois

Paul

I don't think traders are that stupid as to bid it up that high again. Profit taking has already started. Oil's down a dollar or so from last weeks highs. Some forcasters are saying that despite the governments attempt to keep interest rates low inorder to finance the debt,the demand for investment capital will force interest rates higher this year,some say a lot higher. I believe they're right. I lived through the 70s when Nixon,Ford and Carter were printing money like it was going out of style,and it's been going on for half a dozen years again now. That's going to pull money out of commodities and put it back in conventional investments. If you think high oil prices were bad,wait til you see what the results of high interest will be instead!

Well, no I haven"t seen what high interest does, but at least the people with savings will see some return which they aren"t seeing now. But, this is where I agree with Trucker 40, high energy prices won"t help our recovery, and I believe they are being manipulated. Looks like all the change we got was the color of our president, cause nothing else has. P.S., I will never vote again, and those of you that felt Bush was great, ain"t got a clue, but I"m willing to admit this but that"s up there now is just as sorry if not worse after 1 year.
Anyway, just a rant

You said not political,so I kept it that way. There's no manipulation about it. Investors investing YOUR money,whether it's a retirement fund,your insurance premiums so that you can be paid if you have a claim,what have you,HAVE to make money with money. Currently,because the government is keeping interest rates artificially low to finance spending money like a drunken sailor,commodities are the only place for the fund traders to put YOUR money. Right now,they are about 70% invested in oil,13% in other commodities and the rest floats wherever they can make a quick buck. Commodities don't have to go UP for investors to make money. They bid them up til the resistance gets too great,then they make money when it goes down too. This kind of conspiracy thing doesn't get you anywhere. Understanding it does.
As far as high interest rates go,yes,those who have money saved in a bank will benefit in that their money will make a little money,but the REAL problem is that hyper inflation goes along with high interest and the interest earned on those savings won't keep up with inflation. At least fund trading of commodities to make money with money doesn't have the same effect. At least not if they don't go crazy again and bid oil to $150 and corn to $8. In other words,as long as they make money when it goes down. Currently there are more traders invested in funds that make money when the market goes down,than there are who make money when it goes up.

The bitter cold we have been having can be expected to increase the use of fuel oil which will draw down supply inventories which have to be replenished. Increased demand can be expected to cause an increase in price, alway has always will. It doesn't matter if it is oil, gas, propane, coal, pellets, or cord wood.

O.K. I don"t disagree with what you are saying, but like you say because of government interference the only place to make money is in markets, because monetary policy is flawed, who controls monetary policy-politicians that are definitely playing the markets because they control the rules-you"ll never change my mind. With all due respect. I didn"t want to take this political but did because there is no way around it in my opinion- I"m not represented in government just taxed.

You're right,it's government manipulation of the interest rates,but not the commodity markets. And not manipulation by Enron or anybody like that the way T40 says. If they could control the markets,we wouldn't have had the crash that we had in October 08. Everybody was invested in "Buy only funds" at the time and lost their @sses. Conversely,most investors are invested in "sell only" funds now. Funds that make money when markets go down. just trying to help you understand. Not getting snippy here,but if you want to talk conspiracy theories,just go to the coffee shop. 99% of the folks there will agree with you.

Yeah they claim its because of supply and demand but its just plain price gouging and that has been going on for too long.There is nothing connected with supply and demand in the stock market now.You have the internet look it up yourself.If all you look at is Fox news then you wont know any better.If you even look at fox business news you might catch a hint that the market is manipulated by greedy hogs,some of which actually did work for Enron and got a new job screwing up the stock market when Enron folded.

oil supplies were higher than expected last week, so much for that theory, I think it is the old adage "what the market will bear" as long as we keep buying it at high prices it will continue to rise, it only came down last year when we stopped using so much.

Alright,I read where after the fall of Enron what 4 years ago?Some of them went to prison,some of them suicide,but some of them went to work where?The stock market.Yes and with their crooked influence and manipulation is how we got 4 dollar gas.Just because they dont have a sign on their head flashing Enron,does not mean thats not where the corruption came from.Driving down South such as Texas or actually anywhere they have commercials on the radio about buying 5000 dollars worth of stock and doubling or tripling your money in a short time.Of course they stole more money than they doubled,but that was a branch of Enron crooks right there.They could still be doing it.
How did gas get to 4 dollars a gallon,oil to 130 a barrel?
In the first place our dollar is only worth half a British pound.When I was a kid in grade school,and LBJ was president a Dollar and a British pound were a lot closer to equal.
So the first form of manipulation comes from our old buddies in England who own nearly all Insurance companies.Also own a bunch of our banks.Who does it help if our dollar is worthless?Europe.Also the sneaking English crooks have devalued Europes currency before they did ours to an even lower level.Germany and England have high unemployment.Also by doing this China has stepped in and bought us at a discount.Now all of that is just from Englands meddling in our economy.Next the Enron crooks that got in the stock market kept messing with it until they could get prices to jump up and down quickly.Fluctuation,As they got richer and laws were passed to allow them to do this one thing,call a future stock a real stock,they bought over a year supply of oil that had not been pumped out of the ground yet.Claiming since it didnt exist,it was a shortage,they ran the price of oil up to 130 or more a barrel.So with our weak dollar they got it that high. If the crooks had not been allowed to devalue it to start with they could have at the most got it up to half of that or a little more say 65 dollars a barrel.Which is high but not 130 a barrel.
These crooks live high on the hog now because they jack it up and let it fall a little then jack it up.It messes everything up because people that depend on energy to run a business cant count on where it will be tomorrow much less next year.The Cap and Tax scam was going to help the crooks jack it up higher all the time.Its now time for the house of cards to fall and the price gouging crooks and thieving politicians all need thrown out together.

Also we dont have to have a crooked stock market.We dont have to put up with this bunch of paper pushing crooks one second.We should demand they get the market back to supply and demand and the price of oil would drop back to say 25 dollars a barrel and probably stay there for a long time.

You wont figure that out if you allow the crooks to confuse you though.It is exactly manipulation and its by people not even necessarily in our country,but a big crooked portion of them are here now,allowed under the radar in the last 7 years by crooked politicians helping them.Such as Tom Delay and lots of others.Thats history and easy to look up.Because they werent impeached and thrown in prison shows the level of corruption that exists in Washington DC.

My big old hat, we have huge ships parked off shore full of oil. Why? They wait on the supply to increase such as this wide scale cold snap, or a holiday, then they raise the prices and bring in what they need.
There has been a false "supply" for years. That coupled with the fact that investors are allowed to bet on stocks runs our prices much higher than they really should be.
Don't hit us with what the prices are in other countries, that dog won't hunt.
It is a game that the consumer is stuck with playing. All the rules are made and controlled on the other side of the table.
A commodity such as oil should not be so tied to stock holders, it is a life blood of this country.
Long live the large bonuses, it is so good for the rest of our country....................NOT!
They get by with what almost equats to breaking anti trust laws. It is a true monoploy with no competion at all. They use every excuse in the book.
Ever wonder why gas prices vary from station to station in a given area? How about when one company owns all of them? They "say" it has to do with the cost of distribution. Just another lie. It has to do with the location as compared to the local economy.
Same guy owns many stations. The cheapest gas is just down the street from a higher one. "Distribution" cost would be almost identical.

4 dollar gas was a terrorist act.It should have never happened in the first place.

Now up above I told why gas was 4 dollars a gallon.It was a big scam and the way the market is run now is still a big scam.

Now if you have some mentality that there is nothing you can do,resistance is futile,I guess that you can think that 4 dollar gas is the future.I understand the crooks want you confused.However you should not go along with them.They continuosly lie to keep their house of cards standing.

There will not be a Recovery if gas remains higher than 1.50 a gallon.Im probably still too high.Our economy was suffering when gas was at 1.50 a gallon,4 dollar gas ruined our whole country.Unemployment is still rising and so is gas.If gas goes up more,so will unemployment(which is over 20% real unemployment going up).A depression like in the 1930s was 25% unemployment.We probably are there or close to it.

Now I will quit to keep it from getting political,but there is a lot to say about that.Gas has to go to Clinton era levels for a recovery.The stock market crowd dont care if you live or die or there is 50% unemployment,as long as they make 10% a year on their investment money they will continue to lie to you and confuse the issue any possible way they can.

Well you might be right but traders have it all under their control.Way back under Nixon Carter and Reagan the price of oil did not go up every other week.Why can it now?It is manipulation and it is easy to find out about it.They are kind of low profile but still have got the price of gas up 1 dollar a gallon more than last year.There is no excuse for this at all whatsoevr.What changed from last January until now that made gas worth a dollar more a gallon?Not one thing.It actually should be lower as we are kind of dealing with problems rather than acting like they dont exist.

Nobody is that dumb.Sure if you are a trader you want things to stay like this.However the market being like this is crucifying business.There is no business loans,no business expansion,nothing,and even lots of businesses are close to failing and failing because of the crooked stock market.If you dont see that you are not looking.It is a plain fact thats occurring now and this constant fluctuating market is a cause of this problem and it will get fixed.

We as a country dont have to allow day traders or any of that future trading crap.Even other countries invested in ours are going to get wise to this and we working people will pay the price for it.Already are suffering from it now.I dont care that you trade stocks but Im sick of watching people try and defend it.What,you think this is alright?Its corrupt as it ever has been in history.One day it will get fixed and our whole country might fall,but that dam--d Stock Market will get fixed.I wonder what you will say that day?Something like "I wish we would have fixed that stock market before we made China mad enough to attack us!"Not getting snippy,just stating facts.

I don't think there is any way out. Look at the big money "Our" government (TheFed) is pouring into the banksters and "FirmsToBigToFail". They are buying our own treasuries with money we don't have. This cannot last. We have been sold out. Alot of people are going to get hurt bad. But not the politicians and their uberrich banker friends. If this country makes it through this year in one piece, it will definently be due to more good luck than good management.
Jack

You can't say the word "oil" without involving religion and politics and maybe healthcare.

Come on T. I'm trying to give you some credit here. I know you're not a stupid man if you can know all of that. You just have to get this left wing conspiricy theory stuff out of your head. You got it about global warming. Just do your homework and start to understand how markets work. Those former Enron traders are working elsewhere. That's what they do. They're traders. Just like some of us are farmers,some are truck drivers.etc. But it's YOUR money that they're trading. Yes,they work on commission. That's what their income is. But if they don't make money for you,they don't make any for themselves. Do you think that anybody whos investments they were handling when the markets crashed was happy? Retirement funds drying up,insurance companies and banks having to be bailed out by the government. NOBODY liked it,especially those traders whos livlihood depends on making money by trading money.
I enjoy trading ideas with you,but you've got to get some real world facts and not just left wing spin.

Our economy is 70% dependent on what you and I spend.
How can the economy recover if we do not spend more?

Those rich rag heads got to pay their bills too on their jets with gold plated toilet seats so time to raise the price again. They don't celebrate Christmas so shouldn't have bills from that. No reason it's just because they can. They may find out people don't buy it just because they can't.

Alright.Well I was looking at it like this,and I think this is close.There was even under Clintons administration(which was a blunder by him Im sure,and he might even admit it now)to deregulate the stock market.Being a trucker at the time I listened to radio a lot and it would come on about this is being done and such law is being passed by a lot of those guys connected to Enron.Enron was not even involved Im sure at that time.So then they just kept on during Bush and got everything they wanted which basically meant the stock market policed its self.Market deregulation.Fox watching the chicken house.Now one day I would be in Atlanta,the next day Chicago,maybe next Dallas.Enron pulled their scam rather quickly.Mostly California,but I was well aware of it in Chicago.I think fuel went up 1.50 a gallon or more.Some places would be 50 cents higher than across the street.This was actually after Enron scammed states like California and Illinois.It was certain energy companies and in states trying to deregulate energy prices which was gas and electricity.In my mind its tied together from the beginning but I can see how you wouldnt get that.Enron falls.People are unemployed.Some find their way to the Chicago Board of Trade and NYSE and others.Now just like with any other type of employment,these guys had experience in scamming the public.They werent alone,I think that may be the impression I made that they did this alone,but no they were just involved with scam experience.Then there was Hurricane the year before Katrina,cant remember its name and they jacked up fuel prices.Im sure it was an experiment.Now they would not have got away with it in the 1980s,although crooks tried it.There was a strike because most trucks then belonged to independents.More than half of the trucks when they did it after that hurricane were company trucks and there was no strike.It was talked about however.
So it was these same people and others using the tools given them to manipulate the market.Even back in the 1970s they tried to do this before and couldnt get it done.This wasnt Enron back then but it was a scheme.Now they did and no matter who was involved,they ruined our nations economy so they could jack fuel up at will.This is kind of rough and missing some pieces,but its fairly accurate of what happened.Enron didnt get known as the nest of crooks it was everywhere,but in places it did get known it was hated.These are not good people here.These are not some traders pulling some little trick.These are some big time thieves.A few of them even got their training from Enron.Or more accurately a few figured a way to scam everybody now instead of the regional Enron scam.Politicians made the situation possible.Former Enron employees along with other scammers figured a way to do it,and were successful and still manipulate the market now.
Now I wont pretend I know what all the banks did and thousands if not millions of other crooks all over the world and the part they played in it.I was concerned about it because of the price of fuel which I actually ended up selling my truck over it.This is actually like a big octopus with lots of arms of corruption reaching into lots of places.The problem I have with a conspiracy theory is that most of the time its not really a theory.When you check into it a little its way worse that you imagined.The truth is stranger than fiction a lot of times.The reason is most people wont hear the truth even if you tell them.

Now I dont know how all of this works.I admit.I know how this part of the Stock Market works and it used to be against the law.Futures were not traded as real stocks.Thats where the problem is or at least one of them.

The filthy sewage of the media are strangle siletn about this, I guess that since they can no longer blame Bush, Cheney, or Halliburton about the "war for oil", and since it fits in with the chimp's plan for bankrupting the middle class, they are quite content to remain quiet.

The EPA didn't shut down drilling. Cheap gas and oil prices shut down drilling.

I thought you said "Not Political". Oh, I get it: YOUR name is "O'Bummer". Never mind, I thought you were referring the US President, whose name is similar to yours.

Rising oil prices are GREAT news for the economy. IH2444 has it right. If cheap oil is good for the economy, we would have bounced back a year ago when oil was cheaper than dirt. Rising energy prices means there is demand for it, meaning the economy is starting to recover. Rising prices will also put a lot of people back to work in the petroleum and renewable energy industries.

I don't like the idea of paying four bucks a gallon for gas any more than the next guy. But we might as well accept that we will never break our dependence on foreign oil when crude is selling for less than a hundred bucks a barrel.

You really should think about what you said.First off it was Bush and Cheney and Halliburton and a crooked stock market and with some help of some crooked and stupid politicians got the market to where its not connected to supply and demand and fluctuating all the time.

Now if you think about it,what would external_link gain by bankrupting the middle class?If external_link does that he will be Impeached.It wont be like the little show trial they had for Clinton,it will be with crosses burning and probably white robe wearing people stringing him up on the White House lawn.It might not be exactly like that,but underneath all the candy coating the PC press will smear on it,that is exactly what it will be.Also the Bush and Cheney crooks of the United States need not ever try some crap like they did again.That is what Civil Wars are made of eventually.Could still happen.It always takes about 5 years for the crimes of a bunch to get out in the open.About 2014 we probably will know all the crap Bush and Cheney pulled.

You know I was just thinking,if we somehow were to overthrow the "government"of Suadi Arabia or any of the other countrys over there and just not pay any attention to them,our lives would probably improve a lot.They started all this in the 1970s and nothing has changed yet.They are meddling in our affairs and have enough money to buy a President like Bush.
Maybe if there was say a rumor started like that they were going to get nuked.You know they would never tell the people and run off to some underground bunker or to an island some where.Once they get out of their country in a bunker or on an island,blow the bunker or island sky high.I bet the world would thank us for it.Well the world except for Cheney and Bush.Hope they are with them when it happens.

Check out the facts. When BO got elected, suddenly the EPA shut down a lot of drilling.

Kruse, tell me where I can check out your "facts", and I'll do so. In the mean time, let me tell you about my personal experience:

I have a partnership in some wheatland out on the high plains. Up until '08 there was a lot of drilling and seismograph work being done. We had our property leased and and an agreement signed for the leasing oil company to do 3-D seismograph work on the property. When gas and oil took a nose-dive, they stopped all exploration: No drilling, no seismograph work, no new leases. Laid off hundreds of people. Yes it is true that this coincided with the '08 election. But external_link and the EPA had nothing to do with it: it takes a lot of money to do petroleum exploration, and nobody is going to front the money when crude is selling for 50 bucks a barrel. That's not only what common sense tells me, that's what the oil exploration folks tell me.

Give me solid evidence that EPA has shut down a significant amount of drilling, and I'll be happy to retract what I said. But I know quite a few folks in the petroleum exploration business, including my own brother, and they all tell me it's prices.