Welding VS Machining

Hey guys

I know this is kind of OT... But at least it can apply to tractors...

Im a sophomore in high school... A few miles from our school is a tech center, kind of a community collage type deal.

Next year, when im a junior, I can go there for half the day instead of sitting through boring classes...

I went there today to go look things over, and they have awesome welding and machining programs...

I was really impressed by both of them. Almost all the machining graduates have jobs lined up before they walk out the door. Usually the welders do too, but if they dont, they dont have to wait long.

I met the welding instructor, and he let me try tig welding for the first time... And then mig and "smaw"... I told him i was really amateur, but i had done it before, and he looked at my stick welds and believed me (People lie about that?)...

Anyway, everyone there seems really friendly, and the teachers actually know what there talking about, and have a passion for it. The students are great, its not like my high school even tho there all students there, no one talks about who slept with who, who drank what, and how drunk will i be on Friday night, which is a great change for me. I dont even care about the last two. lol. Everyones really friendly there, and seems to like and care about what they do.

But heres the problem...

I can only take one. I can go back and take more, but just not next year.

Which means i have to decide.

The advantages i see with welding are:
-Looks easier
-$16, $17 right out of school
-No math
-No classroom
-Really fun
-Learn at your own pace

The advantages i see with Machining are:
-Looks like a challenge
-Job right out of school. If i do well.
-Has math, which i can improve on
-$130,000 robot thing

However:

-8 weeks of classes
-Alot more challenging
-More demanding
-More precise (1/40 the thickness of a sheet of paper)
-All guys
-The Chinese can do it too. For less. Way less.

Im just trying to weigh my options. I need to decide on two things (Already got that far), and i need to have a preference between the two by Monday. Fun.

This is really nerve wracking for me, its a two year commitment.

Im just wondering, am i overlooking anything?? I really love to weld... Actually, its my favorite part of whatever im working on...

I have no idea what machining would be like... I dont know anything about it, but it looks cool... When i visited, they were building a robot...

What would you do?? What would you choose, and why??

Do the machining ( I teach both at the university level) the challenge will be greater in your head, but it will equal the challenge of the AWS certification complexity of welding. Both are serious, and worthy of your effort. Jim

Go for machining. Your skills will pay off better and it is easier to learn when you are young as you are.
Nothing wrong with being a welder but in the long run machinist will make more money. You can do well as a specialized welder but look around and see how many old welders there are. Eye and lung problems eliminate a lot of welders before they get to social security age.

Hi lanse, nice to see you back...

It all depends on what you want to do 10 years from now. IF you'd like to someday work for yourself, work for a company for 5 years and master various forms of welding, then go out on your own. Portable welding operations are always in demand. Not too many portable machinists (although they do exist). If you go to the jobsite, you can have your own company, and with a fairly small shop, you can do the welding for other people in house.

If you go the machinist route, you'll most likely always be working for someone else unless you borrow LOTS of money to buy some equipment, then you have to keep those machines busy.

A downside to welding is that you have to make sure you keep as much of that welding smoke out of your lungs as possible. Same goes for machining with the coolant, cast iron dust, etc. Both are good jobs. Welding is something you can use at home (especially on tractors).

Good luck

Machining hands down. You can train a money to weld if it is a mig welder and if stick you can teach your self any how. Oh if you do not believe you can teach your self then you also do not know how not to test a mag twice. Ya Lance I remember I got you on that one LOL

I am a machinist by trade and weld/repair for a hobby. I would recommend taking the machinist course first and the welding later if possible for career to fall back on. As others will probably tell you, most industrial welding jobs require you to keep certifications up to date where as machinists do not. I'm not saying welding is bad, I'll bet there are some welders who made some righteous money doing it but my personal belief is that there are a lot more avenues machinists can take in there career.

I would also look at the availability of employment in either field in the area of the country you will most likely settle down in. Where I live there is equal demand for each.

Good to hear you're thinking about your future!
Bill

I'm a machinist by trade, but I can also weld, and do it well. Being a welder all day, everyday, doesn't appeal to me. It's fairly dirty, it messes with your eyes, and it's miserabel in the summer heat if you're not working in a climate controlled shop.

As a machinist, just don't let those tight dimensions intimidate you. When the tolerances shrink, we go to a more accurate way of doing things. You don't use a drill to hold a .001 tolerance, and you don't use a boring bar to hold .020. For every job there is a way.

Machining is (normally) cleaner, and not as hard on a guy's body. If you become good at it, you can command a pretty healthy wage too, you just need to be patient.

I got into machining in High School, and have been employed in the field now for almost 8 years.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Started out as a welder 43 years ago. I have welded, become a CWI, and a Superintendent of a welding department with over 1000 welders in structural and process work. Welding ferrous and non ferrous alloys. Todays welding can get very complex, when dealing with the high strenght material and meeting the mechanical requirements of todays designs.
But would I do it again? No. Go the machining route. It has many possibilites far beyond the machining that you only have come to mind now.
You can always come back and learn some welding.

I'd probably say welding myself but it depends on what you like.

Here is what's going through my mind. Machining requires a large employer who can afford all that fancy equipment. It will probably be a more structured career, more comfortable work environment in a clean air conditioned shop even. Regular hours too. But although requiring a lot of technical knowledge it might be quite boringly repetitive once you know it. Another day another 100 widgets through the CAD milling machine. Unless you get lucky enough to work for someone who makes prototypes and constantly is making some different one-off item. Also consider if the employer goes out of business, relocates or they start outsourcing you may end up having to move to find another job.

While welding can be repetitive if you get a job in a shop producing a product that requires welded joints there is a lot more repair work in welding and this varies greatly from day to day and shop to shop. The equipment required is cheaper and there are more employers out there. There is also a lot of knowledge required and your skills will show there too if you can identify the type of metal you need to fix and the right rod/equipment and do the job at any angle required and do it WELL. It's going to be harder to outsource you in this job too.

Off hand I'd say a machinist will earn a higher initial salary but that I think is just because there are a lot of just average welders out there. If you can weld more than just the basics within a year or so it will be noticed and your pay will reflect that. If you want to take it to the limit it not like you can't. Pipe welding for pipelines or boilers and even nuclear power plants requires a welder that can weld with 100% certainty the job is done right. When you get a job that they X-ray behind you to ensure you did it right and they don't find anything wrong you're going to be paid the big bucks--course some of those jobs will probably require a lot of travel and time away from home.

I come back to you can run your own welding business pretty easily if it comes to that but machining--you'll need pretty good credit to buy the machine tools.

Just my 2 cents and I'm neither a welder or machinist.

Go with the machining, alot of people can teach themself to weld but not many can learn machining at home.You need classroom for both, you need math , welding symbols and blueprint reading. Machine work will be alot easier as you get older.

Welding is heavy hard work and there is math involved. Welding is kind of hit and mis though. Shops can have poor ventilation and be very dirty and smokey. Lots of bending and lifting. You can be really busy then all of a sudden laid off. Machining is usually much cleaner. Running a robot might be neat but would get very boring. Probably a lot more to remember with machining but machining is usually done indoors, while welding can be indoors, outdoors, hot or cold or even underwater. Lots of standing doing machining and lots of crawling in around and over things with welding. Both can be good or bad but I'd probably try the machining route because it is a cleaner environment. The decision is up to you though. Dave

Hey Lanse... don't let the math scare ya off... I flunked out of math in junior high... been machining for 15 years now and love it! every day is a new challenge... even when running the CNC (production) machines. I used to think they (CNC machines) would be boring, but now am into programming and getting more involved every day. What a trip!!! In our shop, we're doing things I'm not sure I would've believed possible even a few years ago. And, what some of the other guys said about the working environment is true... we have a nice clean shop to work in! I used to teach a night machining class at our local community college and a lot of my students were actually welding majors, but were taking my class as an elective. We would often get into the big discussion, which was better, being a welder or a machinist. I would tell them my story about being in the shop one day when it was 30 below zero with a 25 mph wind blowing... and kept thinking I heard something outside in the distance. Finally, the third time I looked out, I realized what I was hearing was the sound of a portable welder off in the distance. I immediately closed the door and turned up the heat! LOL! Regardless which you choose, work hard and stay focused... you'll get there!!! ...D

Hey lanse

Been a while since I saw you post here, course I have been kinda absent myself.

Looks like you have a couple of great options in front of you, and you know what you are getting into here.

Don't bet that there isn't the drinking etc at the CC that there is in HS. You just got a window shopping view. Best thing to do is ignore it.

Hate to tell you this but no math isn't a selling point. I had a hard time in school also. Had parents that pushed me so I struggled through it. Keep in mind if you go into welding in the practical world you will need math.

Nuff bout that. I will add a couple of items for the Con side of your very good pro/con list.

I would reinforce the Chinese aspect of the Machining program. These jobs are being exported by the minute. Heck I am in India as I write this and the standard of living on the lower end of the scale shows why here even.

One thing you may have missed on the welding side is the health aspect. OSHA has made lots of strides in making things better here but there are still lung and sometime eye issues for people who have done this for years.

Taking both programs in the long run can never hurt. Just remember they can't take your education away.

hth

jt

lanse i"m 70 now and been a journeyman combination machinist for about 50 of those years and i"d do it all over again. i"ve learned a world of knowledge and can honestly say you can never learn all this trade.

You can't learn it all with welding either. Both trades require a lot of knowledge but welders are often referred to as welder pigs or grunts, while machinists usually get much higher praise. LoL A lot of people that aren't formally trained in welding don't realize how much there is to know. I'd wager that most people in general would never believe that welding can involve trigonometry tables and formulas. Either can pay a high wage. If you were to become a welder and also a pipe or structural fitter, or steel fabricator you could make real good money with dual tickets. Then again if you were a machinist and welder you could make or repair just about anything. Dave

can't get enough math,..if you don't learn anything learn all the math you can,...as for teaching a monkey to weld,...maybe old can teach one to catch coon....

Both trades require a lot of skill. Go for the machining. I work in a machine shop, so I know I'm biased. Some of the welding fumes can be tough on your health.

There are a lot of PHD (Push Here Dummy) CNC machinists, they don't get paid as much. If you get into writing programs for CNC machining, the pay gets a lot better. The math isn't that complicated, but efficiently organizing the steps of the program can be challenging.

Good luck.

Machinists were paid more than welders that work for the US Government. They're both under Wage Grade system with 15 grades for both the wage grade and wage grade leader positions. The pay scale differs for each locality. Welders were in the WG-10 to WG-11 level and machinists were in the WG-12 to WG14 range. A lot of this is based on how the job descriptions were written. Hal

I am goimg to go a different way with this than the other posters. I know you are young and hopefull that you at present have no health problems but if you do have some like colds all the time, asma, or any shortness of breath at any time then the fumes no matter how much good ventilation there is it will agrevate any of those breathing problems. Just something for you to think about. The maching will not agravate any of those problems.

The health problems that Mathias mentioned hit some of the welders that worked for the govenment with throat cancer. Hal

A machinist will make more money in the long run and have less health problems!

Do the machining.Math is not so bad.Once you learn it then you can do other things as well.When I was a kid in High School there was no machining class to take or I would have.Welding is like this,if you get a job where they want you to weld they probably will teach you there.You can go to welding school after learning how to machine.Welding is not so big of a deal as some try to make it.Yeah there are jobs where you need a bunch of qualifications,but there are lots of jobs that you dont too.Welding is easy for some people and impossible for others.Welding burns your skin,clothes and has a lot of nasty smoke that you dont want to breath.If you want to weld you can but I would take that machining class and not even look back.
I did take a class that I got talked into when I was in High School and was only in it a couple of days and saw it wasnt for me.Typing.I thought it would be good to learn it but when I got in there it was terrible I thought.So I got out and did something else.You should try the Machining.If you cant hack it you cant hack it.I also had Algebra in High School and thought I was going to flunk it but I had a good teacher and did real well in it.Machining is by far the better career in my opinion.Welding is not a bad job,but its not really something you want to do for the rest of your life.There are worse things for sure,but look at an old welder some time.They dont have an easy of a life as a machinist.Plus I dont recall being in a machine shop seeing them up on top of something 5 or 6 stories high machining on it.You can get in some places welding that you might not like too well.

I [b:99026ef4ae][i:99026ef4ae][u:99026ef4ae]was[/u:99026ef4ae][/i:99026ef4ae][/b:99026ef4ae] a production welder for a few years... In the summer when its 90* outside your body will be overheating. Its dirty, sweaty, grunt labor for meh pay. Needless to say I quit that and went to college, as I didn't want to have lung cancer or glass eyes later in life.

Mhy brother is a class 5, which is the highest where he works, machinst. Works 40 hours a week with very little OT. Makes right at 30 bucks an hour. He can weld good, but not professionaly trained or has a degree in it. My oldest son is currently taking machine tech in high school, which is the basics, and moves up each year, so that come time for college, hes a leg up on some of the others. Hes also taking graphics engineering, again basic stuff til college. He plans on being a machine tool (CNC) programmer, with being able to fall back on being a machinst.

I have done both. I now have my own shop. I would definitely do the machining program first. I did the same thing and took a college course during my junior year. I then went back my senior year for math and tech drawing night classes. After I graduated High School I spent one year working full time at a hardware store and went to college full time as well.

Didn't leave much time for a personal life or for getting in much trouble. I would also like to add that anyone that says you can train a monkey to weld is obviously a moron.

I have also had some formal training in welding as well. Welding properly is something that requires great skill and a steady hand. Allot of folks can stick a few pieces together but really have no clue what the right way is. A good machining program will have you do some welding as well. In repairing equipment being able to weld or knowing what to request from a weldor can make life allot easier.

At any rate to keep steady employment you must learn CNC. I did not and have paid for it in the long run. I do not mean just an operator either, but a programmer. If you are willing to move around a bit and live in a big city for a while you will do OK.

As far as welding goes you will want to learn to tig and to learn how to work with stainless would be your best bet. Tig is a cleaner environment.

Good luck to you in any endeavor you pursue.

I knew a welder that worked in a ship yard when WW2 broke out and since most young men were drafted they hired women and he said the best welders were women that had did fine needle work.
My late mom went to work then and she ran a press making 20mm shells. She got gas coupons for extra gas & tires by working in a defense job. Sugar was another item that was rationed.
Hal

We had a factory rep from Allison that had an electrical engineering degree and he said he got his master's electrician license and wired new homes when the housing boom was on back in the 1970's. Hal

As an old Shop Teacher with training in many areas, machining will offer you the better career over your lifetime. Welding is great to know but look at what will make you employable for the longest time.

I agree. For general welding or machining, the pay will be pretty comparable. About the only job that requires better hand eye coordination than welding is a surgeon because if they make a wrong move could kill someone. A GOOD licensed and qualified welder could easily make as much or more than machinist. A lot of women are good TIG welders because they have steadier hands. That's also why women did a lot of precision work on airplanes in WW II. If you're welding somewhere where you don't need a ticket or at least be a registered apprentice, you're not likely to be making the good money. If you don't mind going out of town or working long hours, you can make really good money welding but it takes a lot of experience and you have to have the knack for it. My former neighbor worked on the alliance pipeline doing the hot pass with automatic MIG equipment. He also had to qualify for manual stick pressure welding. He worked 7/12's for about 3 month's and I think made about $60,000! Originally they had Sundays off and only worked 10 hour shifts but there was nothing else to do, so they figured they might as well get paid. I think some of the pay was a production bonus. Welding and machining go hand in hand. A millwright would be a good job because it involves a bunch of different trades, including welding and machining. Lots of variety. Dave

I am computer-aided drafting instructor (CAD) at a school like you describe. I have worked closely with both our welding teacher and our machining teacher.

Why not both? At my school, if a student is interested in both, the two teachers will work together to give him both. It's not "official", it's off the record, but let's say you take machining, I'll bet they'll let you weld one or two days a week, depending on the schedule. Or you'll machine for four or five weeks, then weld for a week. I'll bet if you talked to both teachers together, you could work something out.

I've watched your posts, it sounds like you're really motivated. That's great. Don't ever lose that. Motivated people succeed.