JD Plow vs Ford 961 Tractor

Howdy,

I need guidance. Will a 1959 Ford 961 Diesel Tractor pull a JD two bottom 16 inch plow? I"m thinking of buying this plow but I"m too green at this stuff to know if my tractor will be strong enough to drag this thing through the ground. Thanks for any help and guidance you folks can provide.

yes it will pull it well.

That tractor, in top running condition should be able to play with a 3-16 all day around here.

I think you'll be fine. Guys around here pull with similar set-ups in heavy clay. If your soil is better than clay you ought to fly right along with a 2 bottom.

Rick

630rich,

Thanks for the info. This particular plow is a pretty hefty chunk of iron and had me concerned.
Again, Thanks.

You don't say if it has a heavy beam or auto rests or anything like that. I have a 3x16 that probably weighs close to 1800 lbs. I wouldn't ask my 961 to lift it.

With ease. I pull 3-14s with my JD 60 with 43 hp

Well, again, I'm too green at this stuff to know what a heavy beam is. I would guess the plow weighs approximately 600 to 700 pounds. There is a lot of 1" steel and some of it is bolted three and four inches thick. It may be heavier than I'm guessing. I do know that this JD plow is a "new style" as the shears are replaceable.
One person mentioned soil type and I can say that I plan to be turning over black dirt.

We had a 1964 4000 Same engine an transmission. We pulled a Ford 3-14 running 16" points. Since you are green has anyone explained the draft control feature to you. There is a lever below the seat that has two positions, draft and position. you will need to use the draft position if it is a 3 point hitch plow?. You may also need to adjust the tread width and plow hitch so that the plow is properly aligned. For 3 bottoms in heavy soil you would need loaded tires or wheel weights. Only problem might be if the JD plow has a category II hitch. A lot of 3 or 4 bottom plows were cut down.

Our gas 960 pulled a 2-16 real well. We have difficult soil. In normal soil, it likely would work well with 3-14 as well - tho traction gets to be a problem with the smaller tires for the hp these fellas have.

You should be good with 2-16.

--->Paul

Well to start off you do not say if it is 3 point or a trip type plow, that can make a big difference. #2 what type of soil are we talking about??? I have a Ford 841 and I pull a Ferguson 2-16 behind it and at times it is all it wants and then some but I also have a lot of clay in my area. So you need to fill in the blanks some to help us help you

Well see your comparing apple to oranges on this one. A JD 60 has a good bit more torque power then a Ford does. Yes each is rated around 45HP but hose power and torque power are 2 different things. That said I could go in deeper but that would take a lot of typing LOL

Yes! You may have to gear down a little under certain conditions, but I have plowed in this Upstate, NY stuff they call soil, using an Oliver 2-16 behind a Farmall Super C. It definately likes the 2-14 QH mounted plow better, but it does it, so your 900 Ford should no problem, make sure you have enough weight on board over the rear axles...900s are comparable to AC WD 45s in that respect: all power no traction so ya gotta weight "em down.

old,

There is no such thing as "torque power". Power is defined as the product of torque times angular velocity. In other words, horsepower equals torque in ft-lbs times rpm divided by the constant 5252.

Now, if two engines produce the same horsepower at different rpms, the one turning the slower rpm must necessarily produce more torque. But all other things being equal, each is capable of doing the same amount of work in the same amount of time. Power is simply the rate of work being done. So if it takes 50 horsepower to pull an implement at four miles per hour, in theory it doesn't matter if the engine produces 50 horsepower at 1000 rpm or 3000 rpm.

Now there are other things that come to play: Some engines have a flatter torque curve than others, which means gearing is not as critical and it's not necessary to downshift under certain conditions. In the case of the 961, tractor weight is a factor as it's a fairly light tractor for its horsepower. But there's no such thing as torque power.

Horsepower is horsepower, its as plain and simple as that. Where my hp is produced on my JD in relationship to rpms is where I get my advantage. I produce the majority of my hp over a broader range of my rpms

That tractor was sold for use with a 4 bottom plow altho a 3 would be better

Does it have any big springs on it? either coil or leaf? perhaps you could post a picture. Everybody is answering you based on how hard the plow will pull and not thinking about it may be a big heavy modern auto reset. If you could get the model number maybe someone could look on tractor house to see how big it is.

Yes HP is HP but torque power in say the 841 ford is a good bit lower then in the JD60. Sort of like my Oliver 77 which is 38HP and my ford 841 is 45HP but the Oliver will pull circles around the ford because of the higher torque power.

Sorry can not agree with you on that. But if it is true tell me this. Why can my Oliver 77 which is rated at 38HP out pull my Ford 841 which is rated at 45HP. 45hp is more then 38 hp but the Oliver will in fact do a lot more work because of a higher torque engine

This is a case of what is technically true on paper not always really happening: My Honda V65 Magna motor cycle is rated at almost twice the HP as my JD70, I don"t care how ya gear it, ya put that engine (and it"s a darn torquey V4) ib a JD 70 frame, I don"t care what gears you have, you"re NOT pullin" 3 bottom plows around all day...in contrast if ya managed to squeeze that 70 engine in the bike...again I don"t care what gears ya got you"re not heading down the highway @ 152 MPH. Point is Horsepower is not horsepower!
Torgue plays a LARGE part in plowing, as well as weight, weight placement, power to weight ratio soil, plow size...Like old said it"s not just horsepower, My Super C will hook to any sled any day against that Ford 900 and untill you get up around 5000 lbs beat it all day, with about half
the horsepower.
Enough on that! IF YOUR 941 DOESN"T HAUL THAT 2 BOTTOM PLOW ALL DAY IN ANY SOIL WITH PROPER WEIGHT OVER THE AXLE...IT NEEDS REPAIR!

I see the usually confusion about hp and torgue..

thanks to transmissions, the torgue is not the deciding factor. "Gears are torque amplifiers"...

A small engine that does 5 hp at 4000 rpms will do the SAME WORK as a larger engine that does 10 hp at 2000 rpms.. even though the larger engine has way more shaft power (TORQUE) at 2000 rpms. A two-to-one reduction gear system will put the smaller engine at the same exact shaft power. So

HP takes into account the total work you can get done in a PERIOD OF TIME with the help of gears.

Higher rpms means you can use gears to get more shaft power than with out the gears but you slow the work down the same ratio that you increase the power.

An engine that put out 2.5 hp at 8000 rpms will do the same work with the correct gears and weight as the engine that does 10hp at 2000 rpm.

Torgue is the shaft power of an engine with NO gears at a given rpm.

So with the correct weight so that the tires dont spin, and the correct gears, the higher hp/rpm ratio tractor will ALWAYS out pull every time.

AGAIN the most hp/rpm ratio will win a drawbar pull contest everytime if you have the correct gears and weight.

However....

higher rpm engines WEAR OUT exponitionally faster that slower rpm engines. if if you double the rpms, you increase wear by 4 times.

higher rpm engine use more fuel per hp. If I double the rpms, fuel usage will always be more than double. When you get above 2000 rpms the fuel usage can triple and quaduple for double the rpms.

higher rpm engines typically are more sensitive to load and will require more gear changes when conditions change.

higher rpm engine will develop much more heat per hp produced.. (see increased wear & increased fuel usage)


And Then,, if the hp is equal!!!!!! then the engine with the most torgue at lower rpms will pull better as the load changes and get better fuel consumption and gernally run cooler and last longer. this is why diesels of the same hp as gas engines will pull better as you increase the load and get better fuel economy. more torgue at lower rpms is the same as saying more hp produced sooner and lower rpms.



Then there is pulling a huge load ALL-DAY-LONG, YEAR-AFTER-YEAR, back to more torque is always better again.


Max fuel economy is achieved just below max torque.. Max hp is always a fuel eater..So for fuel economy more torque is better if hp is the same. In the 70's overdrives were added after the fuel crisis to keep engines nearer the max torque at highway speeds. Remember these engines had way more hp that needed to just drive 70 mph. The accidental result was that engine then lasted longer between overhauls. A gas engine that ran all day at 2200 rpm now started lasting as long as a diesel engine that ran all day at 2200 rpm. And fuel economy increased, oil stayed cleaner. Lower rpms and cleaner oil meant less wear.

Shouldn't be a problem, pull it in third. We had a Ford 961 diesel for over 30 years and for nearly 20 years it was the "big" tractor. Pulled a mounted Ford 3-14 plow. Probably will need loaded tires or equivalent rear "pie" weights.

My $.02. A plow that requires 50 hp to be pulled at 3mph , 8" deep doesn't care what produces the 50 hp. BUT , that being said . a motorcycle engine making 50 max hp at 7000 rpm and a JD 2cyl making 50 hp at 1200 rpm will both pull the plow. The motorcycle engine will blow after pulling it 1/2 mile and the JD will still be pulling it after 60 years. Which do you prefer?

All you engineering geeks as always keep forgetting one factor and that is friction when engaging a load. Whether pulling a plow or a 53" semi trailer that power still has to be applied in such a manner as to move the load so ballast or down force has to be added to achieve full effiency 10% slippage is considered max or about as good as it gets without breaking parts and then there is a compaction issue. That is why min till and no till has become the big thing in agriculture if you don"t think so pick a real nice July afternoon and get someone to take you up in a small plane and look at someone who does full till then fly over someone who has been doing no-till min-till for at least ten years. The results are staggering you can see every wheel track on full till it"s a real eye opener. Don"t get me wrong I love flipping dirt but times are a changing.

Now wait a minute,OLD knows everything, so don't give him grief or he'll need to know what you had for breakfast.

old, what is it you're disagreeing with? I said that there's no such thing as "torque power", which is a fact. I gave you the textbook definitions of power and torque, which are not subject to debate. You don't get to define "power" and "torque", because James Watt beat you to it by a couple of hundred years.

Now as far as your 38 hp Oliver out-pulling your 45 hp Ford, that may be true. But that just means that under given circumstances the Oliver can deliver greater horsepower [i:654c4848f0]to the drawbar[/i:654c4848f0] than the Ford. It doesn't prove the existence of some previously unknown property called "torque power".

Now if you still insist there's something called "torque power", riddle me this: The English unit of torque is the foot-pound. Power is measured in foot-lbs per second. What, then, is the unit of measure for "torque power"? And if it is so important, why has no engine or tractor manufacturer ever deigned to publish the "torque power" of one of their products?

Huh? Were you trying to make a point, trooper? I lost you somewhere between "friction when engaging a load" and "no-till min-till". I'm afraid I don't understand what this all has to do with the ability of a Ford tractor to pull a 2-bottom plow.

Ok so since there is no torque power riddle me this. Why is it in a number of owners manuals I have it lists torque power??? I.E. JD400 page 1 of the manual list it having 145ft/lbs at 1300rpm and the Ford NAA manual page 7 list the NAA as having 110ft/lbs at 1400rpm. And I have seen that many many times. Long stroke engines like the JD 2 cylinders have more torque power then a short stroke engine and that has been known by hot rodders etc for decades

As explained earlier, those are the specifications for rated TORQUE, measured in foot-pounds. And with the rpm, you can also calculate the horsepower at that particular rpm. But it's simply "torque". Not "torque power". Take another look in your manuals, and you'll see.

Old,if your 77 and Ford are weighted to the same weight and same load,then the ford will be so far out it front it wouldn't be funny.The Ford suffers from too much HP for its weight.Take them both to 6-7000Lbs.and see which pulls the most.

To "Forgot Password". Thanks for some good, useful, information. I'll be sure to remember to do that.

To "old". The plow is set up to be hooked up to a three point hitch. The soil is mostly black dirt with rock sprinkled in.

I do not have rear wheel or front end weights.

The plow has two disc's in front of the shears and there is a steel wheel bringing up the rear.

So, can the Ford 961 drag/pull the JD 2-16 plow through the dirt? Most of you folks think I'll be fine, others are in another world discussing anything but the stated topic. To them I ask bring it down to my level and please keep it relevant, Thanks.

While I am here. I did read the forum concerning plows in the implement section.

In doing so I picked up the importance of having the plow set level but I have no clue how to adjust a plow to run level.

I assume the steel wheel in the rear keeps the plow from running too deep, is that true?

How deep should a plow run? The ground I intend to turn over hasn't been plowed in decades.

Thanks for the help and guidance

Showcrop,
No there is no springs of any kind. I did see a number so I will try and get that information and attempt to post it tomorrow.
Thanks, I appreciate the help.

Yea, I kinda got off track there didn't I? It's that daggone oldtimers thing. Sorry! :->

That steel wheel in the rear only helps it to run straight, does nothing to control depth. For leveling set the left rear and front wheels on a 7" or 8" block depending on how deep you want to plow. Then set so the plow is level left and right and also forward and backward. That should be close to operating position for the field but for the first pass to start a land use the crank on the right lift arm and set the right side down about 6" for the first pass then set back up to the position when the tractor was on blocks. You may have to shorten or lenghten the top link a bit to get it to go in the ground, too short on that top link and it will never work. Make sure the shares are sharp, no sled runners. And use the draft setting for plowing.

Leroy,

Thank you for providing useful information. I'll do my best to do what you and others have suggested.