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OT Toyota acceration issues

D

Dave from MN

Well-known Member
Just watching the news about the dude that was going 90 miles an hour for 30 minutesClaimed he couldnt kill the engine due to fears of losing steering control. Dont have a prius, but I assume they do have a nuetral, and I am also sure it isnt locked out during this acceration, why wouldnt the guy pull her into nuetral??? I mean that is instant reaction after the reaction to hit the brakes. 30 minutes and he didnt think of that? Really. I think there will be alot of oppertunistic people taking advantage of this recall issue.
 
People don't have to know anything about cars anymore to drive them, so they don't.

Have a hundred similar stories but heres one:
Woman in town here hit a curb in her brand new Volvo and knocked a hole in her oil pan. The oil light came on, but she "had" to be home to put supper on. I don't think insurance should pay out on the new engine, only the oil pan because driving home was not an accident.
 
I thought the same thing. Then I heard a story on the news about a man driving a Toyota and it would not stop. He even tried shifting into neutral and it did not work. Most cars I have been around will steer with the engine off, maybe the newer ones will not.
 
I have heard the steering is 'electric over' so you need electric to steer. The trick might be to keep the power on while killing the engine-next to impossible-I would imagine! Also have heard you cannot put it in neutral, some sort of computer override knowing more than you do.
 
Al Gore's son was arrested for driving his blue Prius over 100 MPH a while back (apparently he was trying to get home to smoke the big bag of pot he also had in the car).
 
Right on Dave!! I think this new modern computer controlled world is teaching young people and old, to not think for themselves anymore and rely on things that are just supposed to work!! That was my first thought exactly,put it in neutral!!! People are losing what little common sense they had left!!
 
I was wondering about the neutral thing, as well- so when I was coming out from coffee at the restraurant yesterday morning, someone drove up in a Prius,and I looked inside. The shift lever is a cute little thing about 2 inches long, situated on the dashboard. The driver was a jarringly clueless young lady (it was her mother's car, making her even less aware of how it worked)- so couldn't make much headway on the question of whether it is a "hard" hookup to the transmission, or yet another electronic gadget.
 
I agree with you Dave, there had to be a safe "plan B". I don't understand why steering control would disappear if he just cut the ignition and didn't turn the key all the way to lock.

Toyota (and maybe all car makers) need to educate the consuming public with their ad campaigns as to "plan B for a runaway vehicle".
Many folks just don't realize that "WHOA BESSIE" is seldom an option in this day and age.
 
The car is over loaded with safety features. You can not shut the car off with it in gear. Apparently the 61 year old earth lover burned out enough brain cells in the 1960s that he didn't know how to shift the car into nuetral.
 
these days lots of people dont have the mechanicle common sence to drive cars, everything is done for them so they dont have to know, ive had gas peddles stick on me, in my 40 years of driving, and always just shifted to nutural and turned the engine off, just doesnt seem like it requires rocket science to figure out, as long as the ignition isnt in the lock position the vehicle can be steered, and stopped, unless its a tractor with full hydraulic steering, which isnt leagle on cars and trucks , all manufactures have issues with their products from time to time, but the last decade or 2 it seems there a amazing amount of clueless drivers out there, they simply have no clue what to do in case of a failure of some kind, its also time to return cars and trucks to the much simpler forms of transportation they once were , and pull most of the electronic junk off, sure there nice - when they work, but when they dont there a mess and when they dont work is pretty often
 
Looks like the toyoto man has a great big target on his back just because he sold more cars and trucks than GM His non union plants dont sit well with the gov owned GM plants and unions it is all political toyota should pull out of US build them in canada and ship them across the border just like GM did to the Canada plants
 
Many of these new car DO NOT have any direct mechanical link between the engine OR the transmission and sometimes the brake system. There is a COMPUTER in the way. If you have some kind of software glitch where the computer is not taking any inputs, It does not matter what you do with the customer controls because the computer is ignoring your input.
This is not so bad when you are trying to look at some skin flick web page on your desk top computer. IT IS A WHOLE different thing when you are whisking down the highway. My nickle!

Kent
 
Something doesn't smell right about this story.

He happens to have this problem just long enough to have the news choppers show up, and media chasing him down?

I think there will be more to this story...

Can you say "Falcon Heene"?
 
When the cruise stuck on my 92 car awhile the very LAST thought on my mind was trying to talk on the cell phone. Guess with one hand on the phone (as it should not be) and the other on the wheel, no hands left to shift or turn the car off. What is wrong with this picture????????
 
we been protecting idiots so long,that now were over run with em...take the warning signs off everything and let nature weed em out.
 
According to the story I read, the driver "told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip."

Cars get shifted into neutral every day without flipping...so what made him think doing so would cause HIS car to flip?

I mean, OTHER than the fact that he is apparently a MORON?
 
I don't think these things turn off by turning off the key, but I could be wrong. Some of those new cars with "push button" starters need to have the button pushed for 3 sec. before the engine will shut down.
 
This will go poof soon, I will bet on it. You should go to the New OT it's getting talked about alot there.

Anyway here is my take. Yesterday morning on the Today show he said that he did not shut it off because he would loose his power steering. (first truck I had came from factory with out ps) Then last night on another network he said he didn't shut it off cause he though it would flip over. Then late last night I heard the 911 tape on the news, the dispatcher told him to put it in neutral fist thing and he said he couldn't take his hands off the wheel cause he was going so fast but he still talked to her on the cell phone for 20 minutes.

I call BS!!

Dave
 
Some people just don't have a clue about mechanical things. My A/C tractor went wide open one time, I had no control over the gas. I wonder if I should contact the factory? Then I doubt they would do anything about a 60 year old tractor. Stan
 
I have one of those cars, a 2010 Prius, and I can state from personal experience that they
WILL shift into nuetral or shut down the engine at any throttle opening or car speed.

What most drivers don't know or forget in panic, is that the car ignores pushing the kill button unless held in for 3.3 seconds, and the gear shifter needs to be held in nuetral for several seconds. This so the car will not stop running or shift gears with only a accidental momentary bump of either control. In panic, drivers do not hold the control long enough for it to activate.
 
that steering should be electric assist. still a mechanical steering path. it's not that different from the hydraulic assist steering that is still on most current cars. you should be able to steer it without the assist. it might not be easy, but how much steering input do you need at highway speeds? not much.
 
I have yet to find a car that you lost steering if you shut the engine down unless you turned the key to far and locked the steering wheel. Ya it could get harder to steer because of the lose of power steering but again that is no big deal. Just goes to show that most people have no clue as you how things work. Plus it he had turned the key off the tranny would still have pressure so it in turn would cause engine braking at least till things slowed way down
 
Also I heard that the highway patrol told him to lock up the emergency brake. I think that was dumb & could cause loss of control. Get it in nuetral & pull to the side & let the engine race until it blows & have Toyota come & get it.
 
So much mis information about those cars out there. I have a 2010 Prius and can state from personal experience.

The engine will shut down at any speed, throttle position or gear shift position, by holding down the kill button for 3.3 seconds. A momentary poke at it, done in panic will not do it. Think,!! then react.

The transmission will shift to nuetral at any speed or throttle opening, but you must hold it in the spring loaded nuetral gate for several seconds. a quick jab then release of the lever will not work. Think !!, then react.

Both controls are intended to work that way so an accidental bump of either kill button or gear shift will not leave you without power when it might get you into trouble in traffic.

They have mechanical manual steering with electric power assist. cut the power and the manual mechanical steering still works.

The brakes are manual mechanical with power assist. Look at the brake pedal and you will see a nice steel pushrod connecting the brake pedal to the master cylinder. lose power assist and you still have mechanical manual brakes.

Check the link below to see how easily this little gal stops a Prius from 70 mph, using only her left foot, while her right foot holds the gas pedal on the floor to simulate a stuck gas pedal.
Stop that Prius
 
On a car such as that where the shifter is merely a switch as is the push button ignition passing through the vehicles computer. If there is truly a software glitch in the system pushing it to neutral and holding the key could potentially do NOTHING.

As for talking on the cell phone, anybody heard of a bluetooth headset? Hands free phone? I can dial a call my merely saying Call and then the name.
 
". Get it in nuetral & pull to the side & let the engine race until it blows & have Toyota come & get it."
Would not hurt the engine a bit, they have a electronic rev limiter that will not allow it to over rev to the point of engine damage.
 
The 911 gal asked him how fast he was going, and he said "81 mph". I've been known to drive 81 voluntarily, when traffic conditions allow- guess I'm just not smart enough to be scared. . .

Some news reports say he shifted into neutral, and it didn't help- but 911 tape indicates he was told to, but didn't.

Looks like what is needed is a saturation ad campaign- If your car speeds out of control, SHIFT INTO NEUTRAL- its the position called "N". It occurs to me that we have a whole generation who may not really know what "neutral" is- they know D, for forward; R, for backward; and P, when you're done. Neutral is never used, in normal operation. Maybe that's the problem.
 
My Boss clunkered his Cherokee last year during the CFC ripoff and got a new Toyota. This was really quite unavoidable.
ASIDCP_0002-38.jpg
 
If I didn't have presence of mind to stop it, I,d run it along side a guard rail or in the ditch while well below 90-100MPH!
Why wait till the house is totally engulfed in flames before starting to get out?
Either opportunist at work or idiots.
 
No way to accidently lock the wheel on a Prius, they do not have a steering wheel lock.

That kind of supprised me with my 2010 Prius, I thought locking steering wheels were a fedral reg, but apparently not.
 
not all phones have to be held to your ear, I probably will make the union bashers mad,but what does the Unions have to do with this? I have heard other reports that stated nothing worked except for the engine out of control. I also heard that on american cars if the engine and the brakes argue the brakes win,On Toyotas the engine wins.
 
"I think if you would shut off the ign when it is near full throttle, it will continue to run as a diesel."

Not without fuel it won't, and that stops being injected when the ignition goes off.
 
Not true, the Toyota brakes are as good as American brakes. With a Prius you have a 100 hp 4 cyl pushing and brakes able to absorb 500hp pulling it down. The brakes win and very quickly.

Check out this link showing how easily this little bare foot gal stops a Prius from 70 mph with just her left foot. Her right foot is holding the gas pedal to the floor to simulate a stuck gas pedal.
Stop thatt Prius.
 
Might be that they have found that locking steering wheels cause more problems then they help. I know they where made to help keep some one from stealing a car but we all know that doesn't work if the guy knows what he is doing that is
 
Check out this link showing how easily this little bare foot gal stops a Prius from 70 mph with just her left foot. Her right foot is holding the gas pedal to the floor to simulate a stuck gas pedal.
Click to expand...

Did you know that the Prius is a brake by-wire system??? That means if the computer is indeed having a glitch (IE accelerator stuck, no ability to shift, ignition not working) then your brake pedal could also be useless.....
 
Dave from MN,
I am one of those who is also skeptical of people who have the ability to dial 911 on their cell phones and talk for many minutes but cannot figure out how to stop their "runaway" vehicle.

However, I have also spent many years designing computerized control systems. I have always been leery about saying "there is nothing wrong with the electronics or software" when troubleshooting MY work. Mainly, because I know that I am human and may have made a mistake that, given the right set of circumstances, could produce an undesirable outcome. Troubleshooting a car built decades ago for a problem like "unintended acceleration" would be easy (accelerator linkage to carb). Today, with ECUs, TCUs, BCUs (computers that control engines, transmissions and bodies (i.e. other car electronics)), it gets more complicated.

I am sure that Toyota uses FMEAs (Failure Mode Effects Analysis) in ALL of their control system designs to prevent just such events. FMEAs are a requirement in ALL automotive companies that I have worked with. These are required of their components as well as the machinery on the factory floor that is used to make the cars. It's basically a "what if, what if, what if" iteration that should identify weak spots in the product/process. If I was Toyota, I'd be pouring over those to see if the designers missed something.
 
The Prius is NOT a brake by wire system.
It is a conventional mechanical brake system with power assist.
Get under the dash of a Prius and look, you will see a nice solid steel mechanical pushrod connecting the brake pedal to the master cylinder.
 
The cop that helped him could smell the brakes driving along side of him at 90 mph,If the computer screws up, the engine wins,not the brakes. There must be something to this with this many problems
 
The cop said he could smell the brakes burning and saw the brake lights. If the brakes always win over the gas pedal, how are brake stands possible? All passenger vehicles have to be steerable in the event of loss of power or they wouldn't be able to be insured or licensed. Nobodies ever had a power steering belt break or their engine stall while driving? I think maybe the guy driving has never gone over 55 before and was too terrified to take a hand off the steering wheel. Maybe part of getting a drivers license should include what to do in an emergency and how to stay calm? A lot freeze up and it causes more damage than it needs to. Who knows, maybe it was a set up to make Toyota look worse? The guy seems to have told different versions of what happened. Dave
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:04 03/10/10) The Prius is NOT a brake by wire system.
Click to expand...

Are you 100% sure of that? Everybody including federal investigators claim it is a "by-wire" system.

The Prius' brake system is a by-wire type, where there is no mechanical linkage between the brake system and the actual pedal.
Click to expand...

The Prius is the first car to feature a fully electronic brake by wire system
Click to expand...

The Prius uses a "brake by wire" system that could be susceptible to the electronic interference now being investigated by federal safety officials
Click to expand...
 
In the unlikley situation where a weird PCM malfunction somehow disables the engine shut down or gear shifting, you still have the mechanical, not computer controlled manual but power assisted brakes that can pull that little 100hp 4 cyl to a stop in seconds, as that young gal in the link clearly demonstrated.

Did you know the Chevy Tahoe has had numerous recalls for things like bad engine computer, engine fires, electrical fires, brake failures ?
You might want to Google that.
 
Did you know the Chevy Tahoe has had numerous recalls for things like bad engine computer, engine fires, electrical fires, brake failures ?
You might want to Google that.
Click to expand...

Didn't know a chevy tahoe was made by toyota. My truck is 10 years old, and if it wants to burn to the ground its fully insured. Doubt the brakes will fail since everything has been replaced in that system with different components.

Still wondering how federal investigators and thousands of published literature pieces can be wrong about brakes by wire. Including in a magazine I have laying around where a yota rep himself says its the first car with brakes by wire....? hmmmm
 
Brake stands ? I am not familiar with that term.

If it means applying the brakes hard enough to keep the car stationary while spinning the rear wheels with the engine, that only works if the brakes are partially applied. Enough brake to hold the car stationary yet little enough brake application to allow the engine to turn and burn the rear tires.
If you apply the brakes hard, the engine cannot spin the rear wheels against good fully applied brakes.
The thing is , brakes fade as they get very hot, so you have about 30-60 seconds of full braking power before the brakes get hot and start to fade. You need to get on the brakes hard and stay on them until you stop. With most cars, that is going to be 5-10 seconds from 70 mph, even with the engine running wide open.
 
I know it is a fools errand to try to explain this to you, but the Prius has both an electronic "regenerative" braking system and a fully mechanical conventional friction braking system. anything but very gentle braking puts you on the mechanical friction brake system that has no computer controls.
 
you drive but my 78 ford can over power the brakes no matter how hard I stand on the pedal. Though the rears are only drum brakes.
 
glad you posted this. there is a lot of bad info out there. i don't know of any car that has electric (true steer-by-wire), and i wouldn't have expected the prius to have it either.
 
Brake stands can be done while standing on the brake pedal. On a lot of vehicles the emergency brake works with the same wheel brakes. There is enough power to drive with the emergency brake on from a stand still. People have burned out their brakes doing this. In the video link you posted, I never actually saw the car driving. I heard the engine rev up at the beginning but then it seemed to have gone quiet before they claim they were stopped. Dave
 
Just try reverse-this will stop the rear wheels turning and kill the engine. Should work on a front wheel drive if the driver goes to netural quickly. As soon as the engine dies shift to netural. Put a 64 Cad in reverse at about 50 MPH and slid the rear tires and killed the engine. Hit netural started the engine and on down the road. Wasn't my car and was about 21 at the time. Friend had a 55 Plymouth push button auto and would push the low range buttom at 60 or so MPH and the little 318 RPM would jump up and the car would slow down real good and never tore up either the motor or trans. At times the low range buttom would have to be held in. His next car was a silver hawk.

Most if not all while having a driving problem just jam on the brakes and slid the car straight into what is front of them. Seldom is the steering wheel used to miss the object during the slid. Now last sunday I saw a lot of brake used while sliding into the wall at about 190 MPH. One was even airborn with out wings.
 
Toyota is the primary competitor of the Government/Union owned car manufacturer. I got a Toyota and if I buy another car, it will be a Toyota. A lot of guys including Cops will take chances to be a hero & a lot of people are able to think up schemes for money and TV time. I obviously don’t know the facts but I’m not buying everything I hear either.
 
(quoted from post at 20:27:27 03/10/10) Toyota is the primary competitor of the Government/Union owned car manufacturer. I got a Toyota and if I buy another car, it will be a Toyota. A lot of guys including Cops will take chances to be a hero & a lot of people are able to think up schemes for money and TV time. I obviously don’t know the facts but I’m not buying everything I hear either.
Click to expand...

may not be all it seems:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100311/ap_on_bi_ge/us_prius_panic
 
(reply to post at 14:26:47 03/10/10)
Click to expand...
The Prius has Regenerative Braking. When brakes are applied the first braking is done by computer to recharge the batteries. If the batteries are unable to accept the rate of recharge or additional braking is needed then the friction brakes will come on. So I guess you could say that some of the braking is done by wire or computer.
 
Buddy had a 61 Chev with the 283 wore out so we were going to swap engines in it one night. Thought it would be fun to blow the engine first. Put cement block on gas peddle and start her up. Must have let it run for 30 minutes. Never did blow. Finally pulled the oil drain plug and it just died a slow death.
 
I hope you never hit my car! I will sue you and Toyota, and the dealer that sold you that death trap along with the insurance company that insures that junk........No BS just a fact!
 
If we didn't sell all the clunkers, we could try out some of this "safety training". Then and only then buy your Toyota. How about cutting wires to accelerator. Someone said only two. Maybe a buck or kabar knife mounted next to it.
 
If we didn't sell all the clunkers, we could try out some of this "safety training". Then and only then buy your Toyota. How about cutting wires to accelerator. Someone said only two. Maybe a buck or kabar knife mounted next to it.
 
(quoted from post at 22:56:51 03/10/10) I hope you never hit my car! I will sue you and Toyota, and the dealer that sold you that death trap along with the insurance company that insures that junk........No BS just a fact!
Click to expand...

It's people like you that are the reason this country is so messed up. First thing out of your mouth is "call my lawyer. I wanna sue and get rich".

What's funny about this whole Toyota thing is that we're dealing with new technology. A lot of people who bought these cars and a lot of people posting here could not explain how the Prius actually works (including myself). Ask an old gearhead how gasoline makes your wheels turn on your 95' Ford and you'll get a dissertation (accurate, too). As with ALL new technology, there could be bugs and there IS a learning curve for the users.

Remember when Chrysler was being chastised (and sued) because they weren't putting airbags in cars? Iacocca said the technology was not perfected yet. When they finally got the bugs out, airbags became ubiquitous. But he stuck to his guns and said he wasn't going to put something on the road that he didn't think was ready (and safe).

Anyway, as with most things in life, the actual truth is probably somewhere between "all Toyota's suddenly accelerate" and "No, there is no system problem".

But the hysteria in the media and Congress is typical of the American reaction to ANY accident, disaster, crime, etc.: Toyota is evil and has put profits before safety. Drag them up before a Congressional committtee, enact more regulations, call press conferences, file class action lawsuits.

Animal, if you think a Toyota is a "death trap" because of this issue, then you are a mental midget. There ARE ways to stop the car. As Jon Hagen has posted, it is likely the panicky drivers who don't hold the neutral switch or OFF button long enough that are in trouble.
 
Well Sir, I am not the most educated on here, but I am an electrical engr. I mostly work with turbines and 100MW generators.
My feelings are...the automotive industry is the only one where controls circuits are not mandated to use shielded cable. I truly think if they used shielded wiring in the circuits controlling the engine management systems, most of the problems would go away.
I feel they are getting infulence from other circuits in that control system.
Just my 2 cents.
 
on my Dad's Prius, that cute little shifter seems "control by wire". If it is truly an electronic bug, you may not be able to get it to shift to neutral. I still think that you should remain calm and stand on the brakes hard, before it gets out of hand.
Tim in OR
 
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