burning in NY, an update

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
In a post earlier the subject of a burning ban in NY came up. This afternoon I happened upon a DEC police man watching over a tributary of Cayuga Lake so I asked him what to poop was. He didn't seem too pleased that I stopped to ask but too bad that's part of his job. He said farms are allowed to burn brush, grass, crop residue, ditches what ever. Not allowed is ag bags, tires, pesticides or their containers bale net etc. Bottom line anything plastic, rubber is a no no. I explained that I have an old pasture lot that I have burned from time to time in the past to prevent woody plants from taking over. He said no problem, on a farm it is allowed. I asked about the March-May burn blanket burn ban, again he said it does not apply to farms. Hope this clears the air a little.
 
man i'm glad i live out here in the sticks in Tejas...next thing ya know there gonna fine ya for losin a lil bean gas.
 
He is wrong, which is not uncommon - unless you told him that you have a New York ag. tax. exemption number and you are legally recognized as a commercial ag. enterprise. And maybe you are? I'm not anymore. I still have the land and some animals but am no longer a commercial ag. enterprise.

Like I said previously the issue is what New York regards as a "farm" and what it does not. To be allowed to burn, you must be legally registered as a farm and have an ag. tax number. To be more specific, the State Statute uses the word "agricultural land". That ONLY applies to a registered commercial ag. enterprise.

Their definition for "agricultural land" is:

(b) Agricultural land. "The land and on-farm buildings, equipment, manure processing and handling facilities, and practices that contribute to the production, preparation and marketing of crops, livestock and livestock products as a commercial enterprise, including a 'commercial horse boarding operation' and 'timber processing'. Such farm operation may consist of one or more parcels of owned or rented land, which parcels may be contiguous or noncontiguous to each other."



Note that a person can own 1000 acres or rural land, have 20 horses, 50 goats, 20 chickens and 20 acres of sweet corn - and - NOT be allowed to burn a dead branch out in the middle of his land. Not unless he begs for a special burn-permit.

In New York, a "farm" is only farm if it shows a certain amount of ag-related gross income and has a tax ID number.

Also, no insult intended to you or who ever you asked - but I find very often that police, sheriff's deputies and state environtal workers often don't know the law very well, except for the bits and pieces they have to deal with on a daily basis.

From the new Statute that took effect October 14, 2009:

2. Effective on October 14, 2009, all open burning is prohibited in New York with several exceptions including the following:

Campfires less than 3 feet in height and 4 feet in length, width or diameter are allowed.
Small cooking fires are allowed.
Fires cannot be left unattended and must be fully extinguished.
Only charcoal or clean, dry, untreated or unpainted wood can be burned.
Ceremonial or celebratory bonfires are allowed.

In towns with a total population less than 20,000, you may burn tree limbs with attached leaves. The limbs must be less than 6 inches in diameter and 8 feet in length (also referred to as brush). However, this is not allowed from March 16 through May 14 due to the increased risk of wildfires.

4. Can I burn leaves if I live in a rural area?

No, burning leaves is banned in New York State.




7. Can agricultural wastes be burned?

Yes, organic agricultural wastes may be burned on-site where they are grown or generated including brush and wood produced by clearing fields and other activities. The fire must be located on contiguous agricultural land larger than 5 acres, and the materials capable of being fully burned within 24 hours


§215.3 Exceptions and restricted burning
Burning in an open fire, provided it is not contrary to other law or regulation, will be allowed as follows:

(a) On-site burning in any town with a total population less than 20,000 of downed limbs and branches (including branches with attached leaves or needles) less than six inches in diameter and eight feet in length between May 15th and the following March 15th. For the purposes of this subdivision, the total population of a town shall include the population of any village or portion thereof located within the town. However, this subdivision shall not be construed to allow burning within any village.

(b) Barbecue grills, maple sugar arches and similar outdoor cooking devices when actually used for cooking or processing food.

(c) Small fires used for cooking and camp fires provided that only charcoal or untreated wood is used as fuel and the fire is not left unattended until extinguished.

(d) On-site burning of agricultural wastes as part of a valid agricultural operation on contiguous agricultural lands larger than five acres actively devoted to agricultural or horticultural use, provided such waste is actually grown or generated on those lands and such waste is capable of being fully burned within a 24-hour period.

(e) The use of liquid petroleum fueled smudge pots to prevent frost damage to crops.

(f) Ceremonial or celebratory bonfires where not otherwise prohibited by law, provided that only untreated wood or other agricultural products are used as fuel and the fire is not left unattended until extinguished.

(g) Small fires that are used to dispose of a flag or religious item, and small fires or other smoke producing process where not otherwise prohibited by law that are used in connection with a religious ceremony.

(h) Burning on an emergency basis of explosive or other dangerous or contraband materials by police or other public safety organization.

(i) Prescribed burns performed according to Part 194 of this Title.

(j) Fire training, including firefighting, fire rescue, and fire/arson investigation training, performed under applicable rules and guidelines of the New York State Department of State's Office of Fire Prevention and Control. For fire training performed on acquired structures, the structures must be emptied and stripped of any material that is toxic, hazardous or likely to emit toxic smoke (such as asbestos, asphalt shingles and vinyl siding or other vinyl products) prior to burning and must be at least 300 feet from other occupied structures. No more than one structure per lot or within a 300 foot radius (whichever is bigger) may be burned in a training exercise.

(k) Individual open fires as approved by the Director of the Division of Air Resources as may be required in response to an outbreak of a plant or animal disease upon request by the commissioner of the Department of Agriculture and Markets, or for the destruction of invasive plant and insect species.

(l) Individual open fires that are otherwise authorized under the environmental conservation law, or by rule or regulation of the Department.

All this is direct from the State law books.
(Statutory authority: Environmental Conservation Law, §§ 1-0101, 3-0301, 9-0105, 9-1103, 19-0103, 19-0105, 19-0301, 19-0303, 19-0305, 70-0707, 71-2103, 71-2105)
 
I thought it was a burn barrel ban, now its open burning. Funny thing on my road there liver a dec police and I drove by one day this winter and he had a burn barrel going! I wish to have my camare next time to take some pictures. I dont agree with burning plastic in the first place, but whats wrong with burning brush?
 
Here in MN every county does it's own thing, each has it's own laws. The state has laws, but it's up to the county to enforce, so - whatever the conty does is what goes.

Burn barrels are illegal in MN, but you see them from the highway on about 50% of the places...

My county you need to get a free permit to burn - call in each day for ag stuff. Next county, you get a free permit to burn - good for one year.

We are dry & about to go to a burn ban - including farm stuff. But then, a small fire under 3 feet across is exempt from most of these rules, so if you can break your ag waste into smaller than 3 feet and burn slowly.....

Kinda all just depends, and I suspect other states end up the same. Rules are there, with very uneven enforcement & different views of the same set of laws....

--->Paul
 
My dog ain't in this fight no way, no how, just me wander'n how all this works in other parts. How did you loose your status as a farmer if you still have land and critters? Did you quit do'n paper work to keep it or what?

Dave
 
To qualify for agr. property tax exemption in NY you have to be able to prove $10000 gross per year.(Doesn't eliminate property taxes, but sets maximum assessed values for property by state law in agr. districts- other areas qualify but individuals need to apply for exemptions)
Silos and bins are tax exempt.
Most everything you buy for the farm is sales tax exempt, simply by signing a form. There is no "number".
 
Unless something has changed in New York recently, any farm with agricultural tax exemption is registered with the State and has an ID number that goes along with the name of the enterpise. Once you have the exemption, you have to register at whatever stores you use, and then give your name/address every time you opt to use it. Number not needed. They search their database to make sure your name is in there. The local Central Tractor used to insist on a phone # for ID purposes, which was a bit problematic since several farmers did not have phones.

If not registered, most stores will let you fill out a special form.

I assume what you are saying is, that the state of New York only lists farms now, in the State database by name only?
 
New York State law considers a using a burn-barrel as "open burning."

§215.1 Definitions
(a) Open Fire. Any outdoor fire or outdoor smoke producing process from which air contaminants are emitted directly into the outdoor atmosphere. Open fires include burning in barrels or modified barrels. Open fires do not include burning in outdoor furnaces or boilers that are used to heat buildings when the devices are actually used for such purpose.
 
I have the ag exemption (but I don't know what my number is). I'm in an ag district.
I wonder if it would be worth your while to "become" a farm?
 
I don't know. All I know is I have never had a number. I have made my living crop farming for over 25 years now. If there are any exemptions, deductions, refunds, rebates, or anything else like that I am missing, I would be very surprised.
 
Thank you much. I can see where the $10,000 min could be a good thing for some things. I can see where in some cases there could be a need for that deal, not say'n I'd be for it in KY but can see a use for it.

Dave
 
So what if I use my Hibcachi (spelling) burning wood to cook hot dogs and hamburgs? Is that open burning too?
 
So what if I use my Hibcachi (spelling) burning wood to cook hot dogs and hamburgs? Is that open burning too?
 
So what if I use my Hibcachi (spelling) burning wood to cook hot dogs and hamburgs? Is that open burning too?
 
So what if I use my Hibcachi (spelling) burning wood to cook hot dogs and hamburgs? Is that open burning too?
 
Nobody knows anything, its a joke. When I buy kerosene they want you to sign a paper, name , address, so I put things like, Peter Pan, location,Fantany land. Or Joe Blow, Bubble Gum Terr, what a joke just to buy kerosene. Next Im gonna put Barrak external_link, Rip Off Way.
 
JD, Your legal post made me think I was back on the job as an NYS ENCON Officer trying to stay awake at an In-Service School. Whew !
Just have a little problem with your statement " but I find very often that police, sheriff's deputies and state environtal workers often don't know the law very well, except for the bits and pieces they have to deal with on a daily basis."

Considering we had 6 volumes of extremely complex laws & regulations to know and enforce, plus the Penal Law, Ag. Law, Navigation Law & CPL, it's a wonder we could focus at all on anything for very long. Incredible mass of legal knowledge needed compared to most police jobs.

Yeah.....some guys may not have been as sharp as others but , hey, show me a doctor, plumber, mechanic, whatever, that has it all together.

As far as open burning complaints, we gave verbal warnings to most offenders. Told 'em not add any more fuel or get a ticket. Their choice. The farmers- we never bothered them. Unless something overt, like running a tire dump,C & D site, or opening honeydippers on open land. Common sense basically.Least that's how I ran things in my zone in southeastern NYS.
 
In Meeker County we need a state burning permit- last year it changed to apply once and it"s good for all year- just call in to State each time I burn. Just got this year"s today, to reburn some fencerow piles. Next county north is in the DNR ban like others in central MN, especially eastern, but we can still burn. Burning without the permit is $700 fine to the county. I like current system with the permit good all year. Used to be 3 days.
 
I wasn't trying to imply that police of any sort are stupid and/or ignorant. I've got two friends that are or were, an environmental police officer and a environmental wildlife techinian. My comment was, and is, in regard to police often only knowing about specific laws they are told to enforce - and even then, they're are sometimes incorrect. When that happens, it's often due to what they were told, not their personal misinterpretation. I doubt many police-people research the law, on their own, by reading Statutes and case-law. More apt to believe what they are told by their superiors.

Even worse for lawyers. In my experience, many (but not all) of the lawywers I've met know less about "current general law" then people not working in the legal field. They sometimes get myopic, and tend to know much about their own narrow field, and little else. Note, I did not say all lawyers are like this. I have had to corect lawyers that I had hired, many times, about legal errors they were making. Even the ones that WERE working in their own fields. Especially real estate attorneys.

I've gone to court several times here in New York, to fight misapplications of State law. With town supervisors, town highway supervisors, code enforcement officers, county sheriffs, town attorneys, and State police. Much was when police tried to arrest me for blocking a road they claimed was a town highway (and it was not). When it was discovered that the police and the town attorney did NOT know the law, the town supervisor proceeded to take my land by Eminent Domain. They did that wrong too, thank heavens. Otherwise I would of lost my land (and still may at some point in time). New York honors the "quick take" version of eminent domain. That means they can "take first" and "prove their case" later. And if they are proven wrong, they get the land anyway. What a system.

In my case, the town made multiple errors of legal procedure and the thing failed. Pretty much all got screwed up by the town attorney and town clerk, neither one had bothered to read the letter of the law.
 

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