Killed in the act of stealing

Oldmax

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WAYNE COUNTY, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- Killed in the act of stealing -- that's what happened to a man after the homeowners returned to their house in the middle of a burglary.

Police say it was a clear case of protecting one's property. But, even the homeowners made up a story at first -- out of fear of punishment.

"They knocked on the door and said they shot someone," David Smith said. "She said she shot him.”

Smith lives next door to Casey Bartram and his girlfriend, Brittany Stroud, in rural Wayne County. Their home is about 3 miles outside Lavalette. It was late Sunday night around 11 p.m. when the couple arrived home, along with their 2-year-old, to suspicious activity in their home.

The original story was that Stroud shot at one of the suspects, not knowing whether she hit him. It was later discovered she never touched the gun and was trying to perhaps protect her boyfriend.

According to the police report, Bartram loaded four rounds into his 9mm pistol before going into the home. Once inside, he and that suspect, Jason Hall, who was also armed with a handgun, got into a struggle. That's when Bartram fired one shot, striking him just above the left eye and killing him instantly.

"You have a right to protect your property against an intruder," attorney Doug Reynolds said.

Reynolds is an assistant prosecutor for Cabell County. He says homeowners need not be nervous about their rights because the law is clear-cut.

"In West Virginia, since 2008, there has been the Castle Doctrine, which at the time about 16 other states had also
 
More and more states are re-enacting the so called castle doctrine by statute after the common law doctrine was overturned in the past.

Be certain that your state has done so before using deadly force to protect your property even within your house.

Dean
 
I have often wondered that about here in Michigan . I have had a CCW for 15 or so years and in the past it was "not" legal to protect property because it can be replaced.

I went threw my renewal this last spring and that question was asked . We were told it is still "not" legal to protect property , but i hear just the opposite.
Yes i know i should just go to the local Police station and ask the question , but so many law inforcement don't like us have the right to carry to start with .

Heres the kicker i live just North of Detroit Michigan and the diease is moving north fast with this school of choice program we have now .

Time to get some land around around me , but housing values are so bad here.
 
Burglar got what was coming to him! I would like to think that the law protects me if someone breaks into my house and I shoot/ injure them. Probably better that he killed him otherwise the b@stard would be suing the homeowner for lost income or something ridiculous like that.
 
If it is not clear on the Right and authority to protect your property with the use of Deadly Force, or even the Threat of it, contact the District Attorney / Prosecutor, and ask or contact the State Attorney General's Office. Many times these laws are posted on the Attorney General's website, and clearly written. In some States, the Law Enforcement Officers are not required to be certified or licensed, and therefore do not have formal training, and may not always have the correct information. States are beginning to require formal training now, but in some States, it is still whatever the hiring agency can provide...
 
I also live north of Detroit and I agree that the schools of choice is BS to me. Inner city losers get to go to a far better school and not pay for it!!!

Where do you live? I live in Northern Oakland county.

BTW: If a loser breaks into your home then you have to shoot them dead.....Yep Dead. So that they cannot tell their side of the story. (A Mich. State Cop told me this)
 
Bingo!

If they are able to tell "their side of the story" it will be different than what actually happened, especially if you own anything.

Dean
 
Not long ago, here in New York, we had a young school teacher get shot dead - when he entered someone's apartment. No charges were filed against the person that killed him. Seems either nobody knows, or nobody wants to say what really happened. The teacher had been at a party in the same apartment building. Sounds like he got drunk or stoned on something, and started wandering around . . . and walked into the wrong door.

If it had been my house, I'd shot him too - if I could find a gun and ammo on time, which I doubt.
 
James:

The so called castle doctrine allows the use of deadly force only within one's domicle.

MI has long hade a abundant government so I doubt if MI has codified the castle doctrine but do not claim to know.

Dean
 

I live in St.Clair.Shores and this school of choice has brought a sharpe rise in crime.

I understand parents wanting better education for the kids , but fix the problem ware you live don't come and destroy our citys.

I have several friends that are the local P.D and the stories they tell would make you pack and run.

I have had several incounters with "nonresidents" that have ended with them in the back seat of a police car , and the sad fact is that in all these cases they had out standing warrents.

I have "no" desire to take anyones life , but you will not steal from me or harm my family.
 
I used to live in East Detroit (now Eastpointe), right next to you. We moved out 20+ yrs ago north to Clinton Twp. (For those that don't know, East Detroit is on the northern border of Detroit and WAS a very nice suburb.) Went back a few weeks ago and was flabbergasted at what it has turned into. Some streets look a lot like Detroit.

Yeah, I think that schools of choice has had an impact. When young people look for their first home, the main thing they look at is the school system. Doesn't take long for a district to get a reputation due to the nature of their student body. So, when homes go up for sale, the buyers tend to be people who have moved their kids into the district through schools of choice. And because the district they're moving out of (Detroit Public Schools) is probably the worst in the country, it's not like the suburban districts are getting the cream of the crop.

Don't know if that same thing is happening around the country, but it sure is happening here in SE Michigan.
 
James, you'll have to walk me through your logic of "the disease is moving north fast with this school of choice program". Are you saying you would prefer that the small number of Detroit children who want to go to a better school should stay in Detroit where they belong? Where the odds are they will drop out and become either unwed mothers or gangbangers? How is stopping them from attending your local school district preventing crime? I'm not saying that every student that gets out of Detroit will become an outstanding member of the community, but a kid's odds in DPS are nil. The Detroit schools are a breeding ground for future criminals.
 

When the Schools of Choice programs first started, I thought it was a great idea. It meant that failing districts had competitition and would need to improve or lose students. Well, DPS never improved, they just got worse. Probably because a lot of the good students left. But as more and more students left, it wasn't only the cream of the crop that was leaving. It was just about everybody. Plus, the suburban schools are not being selective about who they take. Heck, they're advertising on the radio for parents to move their kids into their districts to get more revenue dollars.

And it is undeniable that a lot of the problems of the DPS have moved into the suburban schools. Not that these districts didn't have problems before, they're just amplified now.

I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to make their life better. However, the evidence is that a lot of the gang-bangin' culture moved with the students.
 
That's sad. Someone shouldn't get shot and killed just because they went in the wrong door by accident even if they were intoxicated. If someone broke in and was armed or threatening would be a different story. Dave
 
Like I said, I don't know the full or real story. If a person came into my house, and would not repsond when I asked who the heck he/she was - I'd shoot first and quit asking questions. Granted, I'd try to shoot low, and not blow the persons head off.

If the guy wandered in drunk into a lighted apartment in the early evening, yeah . . . I can see cutting him some slack. This was something like 3 in the morning, and the person (who did the shooting had been asleep in bed). The shooter reportedly asked several times for the unknown intruder to identify him or herself. Made no reply and did not turn around to leave.
 
St. Clair Shores is not a good area anymore, just look at Roseville, East Pointe and the rest of Southern Macomb County. (A Rathole) Infested with losers.

I used to live in Eastpointe when I was a young kid, parents moved out of there in 1976. South Warren is real bad.
 
Frankly this dosen't make much sense. If you arrive home at 11 pm and discover suspicous activity in your house, why go in ? Why load 4 round in a 9MM ? Why not call the police from the neighbors ? Why would you lie to the neighbor, and the police, and tell them the woman shot at someone, not sure if she hit him, when they know there is a body with a head shot in the house? What was she trying to protect her boyfriend from by lying ? Where was the 2 year old at when she said she did the shooting ? As a former Dept Sherrif I am not saying this is not a clean self defense shooting, but the lies and conflicting stories suggest a drug deal gone bad.
 
Good buddy, if you call for a deputy in my county in WV, you might get one in 2 or 3 hours. At that time of night there is usually one deputy for the whole county.He could be as much as 45 miles away. You take care of it yourself and then call the deputy. I have been told more than once by the sheriff. Take care of it and we will back you up.
 
I agree with you 100 % I have worked in a very rural county and sometimes only one Dept was on Duty, and sometimes none. Backup could be 50 miles away and in bed. Sometimes backup was the Game Warden. But you might get lucky in making the call. Also if you make the call before you kill an intruder it proves you were not looking for a fight, you gave Law Enforcement a chance to deal with it. If you ever came up on a murder charge that would be a nice thing to have your lawyer tell the jury. However in this story they came home when a burglery was in progress, and the story was a woman with a 2 year old and 4 rounds on 9MM went in to clear the house ? Cops will not try unless there are 5 of them wearing ballistic armour and carying M4s. I am in complete support of the right of self defense, but entering a house with a burglery in progress with 4 rounds is a little insane. I am glad it went down this way but it could have been the homeowner that took the shot to the head, and so long as they stayed out of the house they were not in danger. Why not take time to load the pistol, find out where he went in and wait till he comes out ? Supprise him.
 
You are correct. Like I said earlier, I don't know the whole story. My suspicion is . . . the teacher broke into a locked door and charged in - but there was pressure not to report it that way because a public school teacher was involved. The Albany newspaper (Times Union) is ultra abundant biased. Just the fact that the police announced so quickly that no charges were being pressed makes me think there was much more to the story not being reported to the public. For all I know, the press is a big supporter of the Teachers Union (biggest greediest vote manipulator in New York) and left much out. Maybe not or maybe so, who knows? All I know is a teacher was shot dead and the whole thing got dropped from the news pretty quickly.
 
If upon arriving home you notice someone is going through your house and you load up and go in you are a fool. This could have had the opposite outcome in the blink of an eye. This story if full of holes.
 
As a former cop I always tried to make the homeowner right barring any exigent circumstances. My first words usually were, "Go call your lawyer, and keep your mouth SHUT". I would smoke an intruder and plant a tree overtop of him myself. Then celebrate with a bag of sliders. That's just me I guess.
 
Gigi, Kwame hasn't run Detroit for over a year, and his cronies are falling one by one. I challenge you to come up with something negative to say about Mayor Bing without resorting to your usual racial slurs.

But what does Kwame Kilpatrick have to do with Schools of Choice? As I recall that was one of John Engler's initiatives. Yep, believe it or not, a nnalert was in favor of students going to the schools they want.
 
Scott, you read my mind. Burglars do not, as a rule, carry guns. They know that breaking and entering is going to get them a lighter sentence than armed robbery, and they don't enter homes if they think they're occupied. Supposedly the invaders were masked, which again makes no sense if they were breaking into an occupied house. And the girlfriend lying is a big red flag. My first thought when I read this story was "drug deal gone bad".
 
You guys need to read the castle doctrine law. Nobody can sue ,it is part of the law. The courts won"t even take it up. I personally know the senator from our state that sponsored the bill. He dotted all the I"s and crossed the Tees when he wrote the bill. We hardly ever hear of a break in around her any more. Wonder Why?
 
Mark B, thanks for taking my back, it means a lot to a guy like me. I just hope that mom gets her head on straight and keeps that 2 year old out of these type of situations.
 
Wife just took her Michigan Concealed Weapons training Saturday. Asked her specifically what they said. Replied that you have fear "great bodily harm and/or death," before you can drop the hammer on someone. That's what they told me when I got my license a few years back. So a "castle doctrine" as such probably doesn't exist in Michigan. Then there's the civil case where the family sues you for taking the life of their "innocent, most valued family member." Neglecting the fact that the culprit was in the act of possibly several violent crimes. Not a good plan to do someone, even if he's doing great mischeif in your house. S=Castle doctrine not withstanding.
 
Scott and Mark:
I see that Scott is from San Francisco and Mark is from Michigan. Both are very abundant states that do not have a "Castle Law". I am willing to bet that both don"t live very far out in the country.
My wife is from West Virginia. There are many places there that it might take several hours for an emergency response, from anyone. As for them only loading the gun with four rounds. Maybe that is all the ammo they had. As for going in to stop someone stealing, I would. If they where poor how are they going to replace what is lost??? ANY LIBERALS volunteering????
I would protect my property in a heart beat. I have done it in my shed, twice. I did not have to shot them but I did hold them at gun point until the sheriff got there. Which took one hour and twenty minutes the last time as it was a Sunday night and my county does not have any Deputies on duty on Sunday after mid-night.
If more of us responded to protect ourselves the grime would go down. Look at the grime stats for areas that don"t allow you to protect yourself. They are always higher than where you can protect yourself.
 
Please thank the Senator for his part in the Castle Law. As for the dopes (and you know who they are) who didn't think killing the intruder/thief was right; it's getting where all the liberals are RUINING this country by pandering to the criminals. It's really a waste of time, and taxpayer's money to arrest crooks these days. It's far better to just kill them and save on the cost of incarceration. People have an excessive sense of ENTITLEMENT these days, and the liberals act as though the crook HAS THE RIGHT to steal from people!
 
Just because we question what happened in a very suspicious shooting we're automatically liberals? As far as how far in the country we live, I feel a lot safer at my home in the country than I do working on our rental property in Pontiac. Murder and armed robbery is a daily occurence in Pontiac, yet at any given time there are only about a dozen cops on duty in the whole city. Police response for a burglary? Forget about it. They're not going to respond if there are no bodies. If they respond to a murder in less than an hour it would be considered "rapid response".
 

Mark :

Lets talk facts :

1. Crime has gone threw the roof sence we allowed out side students to attend our schools .

2. I don't mind people wanting better and trying to live that way. But fact is all the crap and ganger bangers just follow along.

3. If your going to go to school here and reep the bennies of our school district then you better pay taxes here.

4. By moving north i don't have to see our city destroyed by stupid people who just can't help them selves. My gramdma lived at 7 mile and Gratiot area when i was a kid and that was a nice area. Why is it destroyed now ?

5. You can't teach common sence or respect.
If your going to act like a animal and live like a animal then there shouldn't be a problem being treated like one .

These statements are not for all, there is some real fine people coming out of Detroit.

6. Wake up school of choice is destoying every city it is in . That is why some have gotten rid of it already.
 
Same story will told if I find someone inside my house

Except for the struggle part..........

the 'guest' probably won't know what happened.....
 

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