O/T: help, my calves are dropping like flies!

Wednesday I found one of my biggest bull calves (500lbs) dead. Bleeding out the eyes nose and rectum. I did a count and found I was missing another big bull calf. Found him up the valley dead by about 2 days. All the other cattle seemed fine.

Friday night, I noticed another big bull calf and two small heifers acting a little mopey. I called the vet today and she gave them IV fluids and mineral oil to flush them out. All three died anyway with the same bleeding as the first two.

No fever, just got weak really fast and started bleeding out of rectum and eyes right before death.

Vet cut one open and didn't find anything wrong, but says it is renal failure (kidneys). Found a cyst on one kidney they looked inflamed.

Vet says she's pretty sure it was something toxic that they were eating, but didn't find any acorns or oak leaves in the rumen. She is going to send tissue samples in for tests, but says don't be too surprised if they're inconclusive.

As soon as I found the first one dead, I opened up some new pasture for them to keep them away from the woods. Today, I locked them all in the cow yard with hay to be sure. It sounds like there's nothing else to do but wait.

Has anyone ever had something similar happen? It sounds like it could still be acorns poisoning even though there weren't any in the rumen. But maybe it's some other plant? (I'm in SE MN) There are plenty of oaks in the pasture, but it's a big pasture and I've never had a problem before. Pasture was getting short, but there was still plenty to eat. Also these calves were still nursing so I can't imagine they were exactly starving.

Do you have Cherry trees in your part of the world? Not the kind that make edible cherries, but the kind furniture is made from. They are very toxic when their leaves start changing colors, especially yellow.

John

I'm with you. Lost two last week. Vet thought maybe Acorns was the problem. Said he would check one out if I lost another. I had already buried the first two by the time I got hold of a vet. I weaned the rest and gave some shots(revaccinated for blackleg and a shot for respiratory diseases) and took them out of that field and have not lost another. SE Ohio.

Wilted oak leaves are just as deadly as the acorns if the critters eat enough.

Its hard to tell since I cant see or walk over your pasture.

I lost 14 head out of a herd of 80 about 12 years ago, when sum jerk wad trimmed his ewe bushes and threw the trimmings over the fence into pasture I was renting. 4 were laying there at the pile. I called the vet he rushed over, while he was there 3 more dropped dead, and before we got the rest in the barn lot 2 dropped dead and the other 5 died at various times over the next two days. Vet cut them all open (evidence for the coming lawsuit) some had handfulls of it in their stomachs and some only had a few leaves. A year later I was compensated and I NO longer graze cattle on land that borders a residential area.

About 20 yrs. ago, my daughter lost
8-10 goats, with the same symptoms.
Older vet said, it was caused by
"wild cherry" leaves. Broke her up
pretty badly, they were her pets.
Bob
God Bless
Just my $.02 worth

I never thought about leaves since almost all the oak leaves are still on the trees. But now that you mention that, there's a large oak tree in this pasture that fell over last month.

Thats deffinately a starting point. Youve got my mind wondering tonight on this since you said that an oak tree came down last month add that with short pasture, I bet if you check out the area you will see signs that leaves have been eatin.
The info below is straight from wikipedia.com.
Toxicity
The leaves and acorns of the oak tree are poisonous to cattle, horses, sheep, and goats in large amounts due to the toxin tannic acid, and cause kidney damage and gastroenteritis. Additionally, once livestock have a taste for the leaves and acorns, they may seek them out. Symptoms of poisoning include lack of appetite, depression, constipation, diarrhea (which may contain blood), blood in urine, and colic. The exception to livestock and oak toxicity is the domestic pig, which may be fed entirely on acorns in the right conditions, and has traditionally been pastured in oak woodlands (such as the Spanish dehesa and the English system of pannage) for hundreds of years. Acorns are also edible to humans in processed form, and are a staple part of the forage consumed by wildlife.
Oak Trees

We do have wild cherry, but they're pretty few and far between in this area. I can only think of one small cherry in this 100 acres and I *think* it can safely be ruled out. Thanks for the idea though, I'll go hunting for more cherry trees. I didn't realize that they were so poisonous.

There is a certain fern that can kill cattle, I think it is braken ferns, also I have heard some farmers around here losing cattle this fall due to black leg. Gene

I have never heard of a cow dying from Oak leaves as they mostly won't eat them unless they are very hungry on the other hand they love Hickory leaves and apparently don't hurt them.BUT wilted wild Cherry leaves are deadly as once eaten they will develop into Cyanide in the rumen and what you described are classic Cyanide poisioning
symptoms.

We had quite a few cherries when I was a kid and dad was always careful to walk the pastures after a storm and remove any fallen trees or limbs so the cows could not eat the leaves.

Have you ever known of a cow to die from wilted OAK leaves I find that pretty far fetched.And Acorns kill cattle not from whats in the Acorns but by impacting the stomach with so many Acorns that their digestive system can't work properly.As you stated English Yew is deadly to all animals including humans with no known antidote.

Years ago we had 8-10 cows in the pasture every year. There were many oak trees along with some hickory trees. We never had any cows die though. the cows always came up for ground feed twice a day though too!! I couldn't help comment, it's just my $0.02 worth. I did learn something though reading all the posts here.

I wouldn"t worry to much about oak leaves unless that was all there was for them to eat. Being not to far from your area (southwest Wis) I would geuss that your problems are occuring from black nightshade. This is the time of year you will see this due tot eh pastures getting ate down. Usally they will bloat on the first day or so. Then they will seem fine for a few days as the toxins do thier work. Lost a few to this over the years.
Bob

Yes I have actually. But has it caused me to stop grazing cattle in my pastures with oak trees? No it hasnt. Just becasue you havent heard of something or ben affected by it doesnt mean you should automatically consider it farfetched.

Did you know that the tomato plant is just as deadly as nightshade if the critters eat enough of the plant? The tomato plant is part of the nightshade family. (I found this out last year when we came home and one of my wifes goats had gotten out of the field and was laying dead in the yard, Vet cut him open found a handful of tomato plant leaves in his stomach. The vet then filled me on this fact and i even researched it further) The point made is that they have to eat enough. A leaf here and there isnt goin to hurt them. But if they consume ENOUGH of the plant becasue of poor pasture or what not, it can be deadly.

We dont know what his pasture quality is like or what if in fact has killed those calves. We can only speculate Until the vet gets those tests results back.

Until then we could speculate that its aliens or a vast government conspiracy.

I don't have to speculate if cows are eating Oak leaves or tomato plants they're about starved

> I don't have to speculate if cows are eating Oak leaves or tomato plants they're about starved

Let me first say that these cattle had hay available. The hay isn't top-quality, but they are nothing close to starved. When they start going for hay, that's when I know to open up more stockpiled pasture for them. Also, we have been running cattle the same way for at least 40 years on this pasture and this is the first case of poisoning.

I did find that all the leaves from ground level up to about 4ft were all eaten off a red oak that fell down last month. All signs point to this as the cause. It didn't help that this tree fell with green leaves in a high traffic area and blocked the herd's normal path causing them to make a new path all around the top of the tree.

Anyway, all the old-timers in the neighborhood still tell me it's probably nightshade. I went looking for it, but didn't find any, but that doesn't mean much either.

Wild cherry leaves that are wilted produce a lot of prussic acid.Sweet corn and sudan grass/ sorghum crosses can do it.Since deer live on acorns I can see acorns affecting cattle.Mountain Laurel can make goats and sheep sick and kill them.Better check that new pasture.Check with your county agent on poisonous plant that grow in your area.Grain carries many weed seeds.

Wild cherry leaves that are wilted produce a lot of prussic acid.Sweet corn and sudan grass/ sorghum crosses can do it.Since deer live on acorns I can see acorns affecting cattle.Mountain Laurel can make goats and sheep sick and kill them.Better check that new pasture.Check with your county agent on poisonous plant that grow in your area.Grain carries many weed seeds.

Post should have read I cant see acorns affecting cattle.