tractor with best non-power brake system

Need some help. I live in v. rough country and have to maintain my farm track roads with a tractor and a blade on the three-point. Been using a JD 2510, great tractor; nevertheless, it died once while on a steep grade, and the power brakes died too. I went backwards at a high rate of speed and was fortunate to be at a place with no curve and a wide landing area. Since then, I take great care in keeping it tuned, clean gas-tank-lines and filter, and so on. But it is a machine, and one day it will stall again.

So. What tractor can do this job? What tractor has the best, the very best non-power brake system. It should also be a tractor with a carburetor that doesn't stall on slope. I'm partial to Allis orange, but here's a case where simple mechanics dictate a choice, and I don't know enough to know what that choice should be. Tractor doesn't have to be all that powerful. I'd love to hear that WD45 or an Allis CA is right for this job, but for all I know, it's a Ford 8N. 'Preciate advice from people who have the right knowledge and experience. I'm a retired soldier, not a tractor mechanic. A graded road ain't worth dying for.

Pretty much any of the waterloo built 2 cyls. have the best manual brakes I have been around.
They even work when in bad shape.

I almost got killed coming down a very steep hill on a 3020 with a worn-out SynchroRange trans. Popped out of gear, engine stalled, absolutely no steering and no brakes. I jumped off just before the tractor crashed. Hit the road sideways and snapped both my legs in two. Almost lost my right leg forever.
So, I know what you mean.

Of all my tractors with manual brakes, my IH B-275s ,B-414s and 3414 work the best. Almost as good is my Case 580CK of VAC. Both those brands have round disk brakes actuated by balls. I'm sure there are many others. I've got three Fords with internal dry expanding shoe brakes and not very good. Same goes for my Ferguson TO35 and MF35 (but they're not in great shape).

I CAN tell you what had the worst manual brakes, even when brand-new. 1010 Deere wheel tractor.

The self actuating disc brakes in the Olivers were a good solid system as long as the seal in behind them didn't leak. Not that they were known for it,but they're old tractors by now and it does happen from time to time.

I have a MF 40B with wet brakes and it is the best stopping tractor I ever had. DH

I think Lambert-AUSCO made those disk brake sytems for Oliver, Case, IH, AC, and a few others. Most I've used worked great.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&amp;current=Auscobrakes.jpg" target="_blank"> </a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&amp;current=Auscobrakes2.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Problem with all of 'em is that backwards, they ain't self actuating. Best brakes in an emergency is a 3 point implement, or a loader, just stay calm, and lower one or the other or both. As far as orange tractors go, the D-15 series 2 has self actuating, if I am remembering right, but with all D-series, check to see if third gear pops out, when you crest a hill, BEFORE buying the tractor.

Maybe a little newer than you want but I like my 73 Ford 4000 diesel. To me it is one of the handiest all purpose tractors ever built. Internal wet brakes that work the same with the tractor on or off, powerassist steering but still works without the tractor running just steers a little harder, 3 pt hitch works good and has independant PTO.

Maybe it is time to move up to a Allis 6060 6070 or 6080. I have a 6060 with a cab, brakes are good, only thing takes ether to start it when cold or plug it in. Also you can pull them to start, no hyd clutch or shift.

That pic you posted looks indentical to the Farmall brake, Super M,450 and the like. They did work great, take alot more heat then a band style brake and worked good in both directions compared to a band brake. The weak link was if they got water in them and the balls rusted a little, then the brake would stick. Ever had one a part? If you really want then to work good, take them a part and sand blast all the steel brake surfaces and gently rough up the pads, if they are in good enough shape. They were a great system, but would rather have the hydraulic oil bath type.

I"ll second the larger 2 cyl john deeres.

was driving a international 2+2 packing silage in a bunker, engine died, down the hill real fast backwards, no brakes no steering....

I have a WD45 with excellent brakes which could be for sale soon. Only a couple problems. Location, and lack of three point hitch!

I like the dual inboard disc of my MF65. I have driven a whole mess of standard drum brake tractors and none stop like this does. Probably too small/old/2wd for your line of work.

Aaron

Had many apart. I just had to fix the ones on my Case 580CK. The carrier shaft was loose, and that let oil into the brakes in both sides. Shimmed the bearings, put in new seals, and took a torch to the brakes to cook the oil out of them. Working fine now.

Yep,that looks like the Oliver brakes. Used on everything from the later 66-77-88 right on up through the 50 series and the 1555s. Might have even been on the 2-70 Whites,but I never had a 2-70 to know.

The 3 cyl 4000 was the first Ford that ever had brakes. But when they figured it out in 1965 they did it good.

I agree. They are hard to beat and easy to repair.

Dean

AC D19 have both disc and shoe brakes

I'll second the 3cyl Ford, question the Olivers, my 2-105 White has no brakes or steering when the engine quits!

Ford, bar none. Either a 4000 or 5000 derivative... and by that I mean later than 1965. Those had mechanically actuated wet brakes. Diesel is better but you can find them with spark engines if you prefer.

Rod

How did you get the ad to post? I have several that I have saved as a pdf file and I can"t get them to post on here.

Same band and disc brakes with the Series III and IV D-7. Same setup that jdemaris talks about below, with ball actuaters.

You should still have had manual steering and all but the earliest 3020s had an accumulator on the brake system so they would have several brake applications.

(quoted from post at 19:58:42 11/30/10) I think Lambert-AUSCO made those disk brake sytems for Oliver, Case, IH, AC, and a few others. Most I've used worked great.

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How does the Lambert-AUSCO brake system differ from a JD 1010/2010? It's appears as if it has similarities but then you stated they worked great.

Ausco brakes are mechanically actuated using a tapered ball ramp that forces two actuator plates outward thus sandwiching the brake discs. IIRC, most of the Deere stuff used hydraulic actuation... which is fine as long as you have an oil supply and the cylinders don't leak. The Ford's used wet Ausco's which seemed to extend their life cycle considerably if they were looked after a little bit.


Rod

I stated that the 1010 wheel tractor brakes were awful, even when brand new.

We always wondered the same thing, when we tried to improve 1010s. But the disk brakes that Deere used differ slightly in design that some sytems found in Oliver, Case, IH, AC, etc.
Deere MT, 40,420, 440, 320, and 1010s, along with some Farmalls use the same 5" brake disks.

It also depends on where you put those brakes. i.e. what level of gear-reduction they have to stop. Whatever shaft those brakes are on, the closer it is to actual wheel speed, the worse they will work. That is also the reason why the brakes on two-cylinder horizontal engined tractors work pretty well.

And, some companies not only use the two round disks, but also add a band on the outside - like my Case 580CK.


I can't stay I ever studied it all too closely. We had complaints from just about any person we sold a 1010 wheel tractor to, and found that nothing we did improved them. Same with some 420 wheel tractors, but I suspect less was expected of them. We'd pull the metal plates off, send them out to a machine shop and have them grooved to prevent glazing. We'd then stick in new disks. After that, the tractor would half-way stop for a few weeks and then, get lousy again.

From smallest to biggest diameter. Size of disks,along with the shaft speed where they are mounted, as it relates to wheel speed, is what makes one better then another. A 5" disk on a high-reduction shaft could work better then an 8" disk on a shaft with less reduction - and I don't have all those specs. Here are disk sizes, smallest to biggest.

Deere 40, 420, 440, 1010 - 5” diameter disk, 21 spline, .575” thick. 1010 uses two per
side.

320, 330, 420, and 1010s (some) use the 5” disk with 25 splines/ 1 5/8” spline ID

Deere MT and Farmall Super C, 200, 230, 240, 330, 340, 404, and 2404 use a 5” disk,
two per side, and 10 spline with 1 5/8” spline ID.

International Harvester and Farmall - H, Super H, Super HV, Super W4, OS4, 300, 350, -
5 5/8” diameter, 10 spline with 1 7/8” spline ID. Two per side. .525” thick.

Oliver - Super 55 and 65, Super 66, 550, 660 - 5 5/8”, 26 spline with 2 1/4” spline ID.

Case: 200B, 300, 300B, 320, 320B, 350, 400B, 420B, 420BD, (430, 530, BOTH
BEFORE SN#6165269) 500B, 600B, 630, W3, W5, W5A - 6” diameter, 17 spline by
2.245” spline ID. .550” thick and two per side.

International Harvester and Farmall: 340 (Dsl), 460, 504, 606
10 Spline, 6" Dia, 1-7/8" Spline ID -4 used per tractor IH: 368292R92, 1975460C2

International Harvester and Farmall - M, Super M, MD, Super MD, MV, Super MV,
Super MDV, MTA, 400, 450, Super W6, Super WD6, W400, W450, Supe W6TA,
OS6, ODS6, - 6.5” diamter, 12 spline with 2 1/4” spline ID. Two per side.

International Harvester and Farmall: IH 354, 364, 384, 424, 444 +
1-5/8 Spline ID, 6-1/2" O.D., 10 Spline --- 4 used per tractor.

International Harvester and Farmall: 656, 664, 666, 686, 2656, Hydro 70, Hydro 86
4 used per tractor, sold individually --- 6.5" Diameter - 3.50" Hub - 10 Spline
391445R91, 1975463C2, 1975463C3

Massey Ferguson 65, 86, 88, Super 90, 165, 175, 180, 203, 205, 302, 304, 356, 3165, - 7”
diameter, 27 spline with 2 3/8” spline ID.

International Harvester and Farmall: 560, 660 - 12 Spline 7" Dia 2-1/4" Spline ID --- 4
used per tractor, 0.430" thick. IH: 369079R92, 1975446C3

Case: LA, 400, 401, Super 402, Super 403, 403, 410, 411, 412, 413, 500, 600, 610, 700B,
701B, 711B, 712B, 713B, 715B, 730, 730C, 770 (up to sn 8282416), 800B, 801B, 802B,
803B, 810B, 811B, 812B, 813B, 830, 830C, 870, (up to sn 8675001), 900B, 910B, 930,
930CK, 970 (up to sn 8675001), 1030. 3-1/8" Spline ID - 4 used per tractor, 7in. Dia, 24
Spline.

Cockshutt and Oliver - Cockshutt 40, 50, 770, 880, 1550, 1600, 1650. Oliver 77, 88,
Super 77, Super 88, 770, 880, 1550, 1600, 1650, 1655, 7” diameter, 29 spline with 2 1/2”
spline ID.

Cockshutt: 1800, 1800B, 1850, 1900, 1950,
MM: G955, G1355, Oliver: 1800, 1800B, 1850, 1900, 1950, 1950T, 1955, 1750, 1755,
1855, 2050, 2255, 2-105, 2-110, 2-150, 2-85, 2-88, 4-175, 4-180
21 Spline, 8" Dia, 2-3/4" Spline ID
Oliver: 105724A, 30-3135241 - MM: 10572RA, 303135241

International Harvester and Farmall - 706,756, 766, 806, 826, 856, 966, 1066, 1206,
Hydro 100, - 8” diameter, 12 spline with 2 1/4” spline ID.

Massey Ferguson: 165, 175, 180, 235, 255, 265, 275, 285, 1080, 1085, IND 30, 31, 40
MF models with cast rear axles and dry brakes. 27 Spline, 8 7/8" Dia, 2-3/8" Spline ID
MF: 1805980M1, 1044526M1

Go with a Ford, '65 or newer, 4000 or bigger, and you won't regret it.

(quoted from post at 15:24:30 12/01/10) Go with a Ford, '65 or newer, 4000 or bigger, and you won't regret it.

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2nd or 3rd that. My 65 5000 will stop in a hurry with the tractor either live or dead.

(quoted from post at 11:06:31 12/01/10) I stated that the 1010 wheel tractor brakes were awful, even when brand new..

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I wasn't implying that 1010/2010 brakes were any good as you &amp; I along with many others know they weren't.

I was just wondering why they were so bad and the Lambert-AUSCO type were so much better.

Thanks for your explanation,Jim