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Shortage of young mechanics?

Z

zooeyhall

Member
I was talking to a local John Deere dealer the other day, and he was complaining about how tough it is to get qualified heavy equipment mechanics, and that the situation is going to get worse. He's been tearing his hair out because most of his experienced mechs are in their late fifties and he doesn't know what he'll do when these guys start to retire. He's even offering scholarships to the local community college for those who want to learn heavy equipment repair. I myself work for a company that provides maintenance services for large electrical motors in industry, and we are having trouble getting "new" people. It just seems like young people today don't want to work with tools and this kind of stuff. I've talked to several young people who are about to graduate from high school in my town, and all they talk about is going to college and getting a degree in business or finance or marketing or something. Why someone would want to spend 4 years in school and graduate with a load of debt, and join a bunch of other unemployed college grads. When you can go to school for 18 months and get hired even before you graduate, and start earning $40-$50k as a diesel mechanic? There seems to be this prejudice about doing this kind of work among young people today. About the only young people who seem to want to do this "hands-on" kind of work are the farm kids, and with rural population going the way it is, they are getting scarcer and scarcer.

I also wonder why we can"t see more young women go into this kind of work. I mean, a woman can be as good a mechanic technician as a man.
 
No dealers around here pay that kind of money.You have to buy your own tools and take a lot of crap from farmers in a hurry and always work late in the summer time.
 
Whey would a kid WANT to? Hardly any money in it, at least in rural areas. I was offered a job last year at a brand-new Deere dealership branch in northern Michigan. I would of been shop-mangager and was offered $10 per hour to start, and $12 after a year, and half medical insurance. Grease-monkeys in the shop are paid $8 per hour. You can do better working at Walmart.

I'll also note - how many shops do any real mechanical work anymore where a young person can actually learn something? When I first worked at a dealership - we had our own injection pump shop, did our own cylinder head work, flywheel resurfacing, rod-bushing resizing, piston knurling and groove repair, in-block cylinder boring, starter motor, alternator, magneto, and hydraulic pump repair, etc. Now - seems most shops send stuff out to be actually repaired. Not much to learn.
 
our society doesnt put value in manual labor-- anyone who makes his money with his back is substandard -- below the person who makes it with his mind-- its cost us-- just like the manufacturing that has left the country-- i dont know how we will export our mechanical work-- but who knows-- 40K a yr is 800 per week-for a 4-8K investment is pretty good-- i think alot of it is that we as society feel that we are owed a living and if external_link & the nnalert get their way- it may come to pass
 
So how come at three auto shops this week they all charge $70.00 per hour for labor?
I under stand some dealers figure at $90.00.
 
Where is there a dealer that pays starting diesel mechanics at $50,000 a year ? Around here it is more like $24 to 30,000. Most guys (and gals) end up working for energy companies, construction companies, some government entity or opening there own shop.
 
Could be . . . since I have no idea where or who you are talking about. How about some specifics?

When I left the Deere dealership in 1991, I ran the shop, was also in charge of tool purchasing, did all the injection pump work, as well as field service. I got paid $11 per hour with 10 hours average overtime every week (at time-and-a-half), profit sharing if we made a profit, full medical insurance for me and family, - and two weeks vacation in the summer - three weeks if I took it in the winter. At that time we paid new mechanics $4 per hour. That in the city of Oneonta, NY.

Now, 2010 - a new Deere dealerhip offered less money in an area similar in population, to what this area was back in 1991.
 
For any shop I worked at, even when charging $100 per hour, they often lost money due to warranty work and come-backs. Hard to control when you have many mechanics - unless a flat-rate shop.
 
I'm sorry no ag dealer ship pays 40-50 k a year! You could make that at a truck shop working flat rate but also long hours.Plus you prolly spend a 100+ amonth in tool payment to keep up with the technolgy. To Andy Moncman you dont have to take crap from every job, just listen to the people that work at some independent shops. I work at a truck body builder building oilrigs and pump trucks. My boss and foreman are very easy to get along with, when I need time off its always approved. We have a website to see some of the stuff we build its gemtarinc.com some nic pic also.
 
I understand that an EXPERIENCED mechanic can get $40-$50k a year; as I see it, that's not the problem. The problem is, when you have to have $20k in tools to START in the business, and it only pays $8-$10 an hour [that's $16-$20k a year] to START, it's not worth making that kind of investment in tools and training to make what the guy mopping floors at McDonald's makes...and he has NO investment in tools.

So $20k in college loans [usually at some sort of subsidized interest rate] to make $60k-$75k a year, or $20k in tool debt [usually at a NON-subsidized interest rate...often on credit cards, at 18% or more a year] to make $20k...which makes more sense to YOU?

So lot of it is economics. But a lot of it is the idea of getting that business degree and never, EVER having to get dirty, greasy or sweaty [except at the YMCA], vs. trying to get the smell of diesel fuel out of your hair and your underwear every day...so you tell ME why more young people aren't becoming mechanics.

My dad and grand-dad ran a garage, and my dad simply wouldn't ALLOW me to go to work twisting wrenches. He said it was a dead-end job, and used his experience as an example. So when Dad died, I inherited a worn-out, undersized, dilapidated building full of obsolete tractor and implement parts and worn-out tools. And I tend to agree with Dad's assessment.

But it's not all the fault of the kids, either. The local IVY Tech Community College shut down their automotive trades department as of January 1, 2009. Of course, they have a newly-remodeled main campus building, with lots of newly constructed buildings for other trades...but automotive was intentionally left out of the mix. Apparently auto mechanics wear the wrong kind of stethescope around their necks, and they don't convey the "image" that nurses and accountants do.

Plus, in our society, we're told every day how mechanics, like used-car salesmen, are out to lie, cheat, and steal from us, the unwary consumers...so who in the world NOT making the income a lawyer does would invite that kind of societal scorn? Nobody in their right mind, THAT'S for sure. "As ye sew, ..." well, you know the rest of that saying.
 
Yet another job that "Americans just won't do?"

You all know the solution to that problem.

Scary thought.

Dean
 
The rule of thumb at one dealership where I worked was that the retail shop labor rate war 3 times the hourly rate paid to the HIGHEST-paid tech in the shop. So if that's the case, a $70 shop rate would mean that the BEST, MOST EXPERIENCED tech in the shop gets less than $25 a flat-rate hour...or maybe $50k a year.

And the less-experienced guys would be paid probably $14-$15 an hour...or about what technicians were being paid in 1988-1990. Anyone here buying groceries or gasoline for 1990 prices?
 
I agree what Sheriff Joe Arpaio said recently at a nnalert rally locally: Americans WILL work, if you PAY THEM WHAT THE JOB IS WORTH. If you pay like the job has no value to you, nobody will want to do it.
 
WOW! when i came here in 92 I saw a job with the county part time Heavy Equipment Mech. at $8.00 turned it down as it was so dam low. my old job at the Army pays $58000 a year now. A really good mechanic should get at least $40000 if he's any good at all. You get $10.00 and hour starting at Walmart an they say it's to low of pay for the unskilled work.
Walt
 
I would agree there is a shortage here too. There seems to be lots of oppertunity if some one wants to do specialized work (magnetos, fuel injection, babbitt, etc)
 
After 30+ years in the automotive business in a variety of capacities, I'm convinced that everything negative and derogative that's ever been said about the automotive business has been grossly understated. I've found some real slimeballs out there.

I think the prevailing attitude is, "We're going to be stigmatized for it anyway, we may as well do it along with everyone else".

There is a local NAPA store and service center I always considered squeaky clean, straight arrow. I've known the owner for years. Then a year ago my wife took her mini van in for an oil change. The owner told her the outer tie rods were loose to the point of being dangerous, and all four tires were down to the wear indicators. He gave her an estimate of $1300.

Naturally, my wife wasn't going to do anything without checking with me, and the owner should have known this. My wife left the place wondering if the van was even safe to drive home. First thing I did was take my tread depth indicator and check the tires. Worst spot I could find was 55%. I jacked up the front end and found the outer tie rods as tight as brand new. 20,000 miles later, they're still tight as new.

It's bad when you can't even trust your own friends (?) in an industry.
 
My understanding is around this area (Finger Lakes) most mechanics make 8 to 10 dollars an hour depending on field of expertise and regardless of manufacturer affiliation. Even those with some time experience exceeding a decade make 12 dollars an hour at the most. Most dealers that survived the 1990's here eliminated their top salary earners during that time period. I know of several instances of lasting hard feelings that reside with the former employee's family and friends that are active customers for farm equipment even to this day.
Really not a place to earn much money regardless of being a mechanic, salesperson, or parts person in this day and age. Maybe if you are a part of ownership.
 
The older I get I can see why a young person wouldn't want to be involved in any mechanic work. After you look back you realize you got screwed your whole life on benefits, wages, and working conditions. Get up every morning and go in and work on greasy, heavy, stinky, filthy,poorly designed machines for sub par wages and benefits. Then you stop at a county building or state building for something and the people in there are making more than you in beautiful clean, warm in winter, cool in summer conditions with excellent wages and benefits and a good retirement plan and your taxes pay their wages. You can get an education and be one of those people or be the diesel mechanic and be broke with a broken down body at age 50. I understand why kids don't want to do it. Smart kids.
 
I'm not directly in the finger-lakes area but have known many tractor dealership mechanics who were. It is just as you say, and just like here in the central "Leather-Stocking" area of NY.

One big problem with tractor dealerships is - things usually really slow down in the winter. It's tough to keep employees paid all year round. Getting any wages in the winter when there isn't much work kind of makes up for geting low wages in the summer when there is lots of work.

We were kind of different at the last Deere dealership I worked at because we had ag, industrial, foresty, an injection pump shop, and consumer Deere equipment, as well as Stihl chainsaws. Often when farming slowed down, industrial or forestry picked up - and kept us going. Even with that, there were many winters when our boss offered us double-vacation if we'd take it in the dead of winter when things got slow.
 
You are wrong there. Every one of our mechanics make that or more. Of course they work about 55 hours a week. I believe our fresh out of school techs make about $13 an hour or more.

Steve (in central IL)
 
In our area the highest paid man in the dealers shop earns $12 bucks an hour & everyone else is a couple bucks under. Tack on tools, uniforms, long hours in the summer, short hours in the winter & that doesn't leave much incentive.

The phrase " jobs Americans won't do " is pure political BULL! It was invented by politicians and used to justify imported cheap labor. To be honest, the phrase would have to be changed to " jobs Americans can't do and survive for the pay ". JMO
 
Around here southern OK Dealers are for warrenty work,at $80-$100 an hour who wants to pay that when you can go to somebody that knows whats going on for half that.

Our local Deere dealer gets $85 an hour shop rate.I know a guy that worked there and quite to go work at the wal-mart distribution place,says he makes a little more money,has way better insurance and only works four days a week.
 
Until the demand exceeds the supply for mechanics. The wages and benefits will stay low.
Still lots of school drop outs who have the choice of minimum wage or half decent wages as a tradesman.
Of course many semi-literate dropout can't follow an instruction manual or perform logical diagnostics. With either simple hand tools of complex analysis equipment. Hence the high rate of shop repair failures. Along with "let's take a guess and replace this part, it might be the problem?
Therefore mechanics and trades people will continue being paid modest wages at best.
 
I work as a aircraft mechanic in Canada and there is an extreme shortage of mechanics here. The average age is now 55 and the pool is getting smaller. Lots of kids coming out of college but can't speak or write english very well. Wages are going up acrcoss the board because it's becoming an employee market place, but more is expected so if you have a family it now comes in second.
 
An experienced mechanic should make $15/hour minimum, 5 years experience.
$10/hour and under is crap, why not work at burger king and eat the food for $8/hour and not have to lay on the concrete floor.

I have heard of experienced diesel mechanics making $23/hour, easily.
 
It's not just mechanics. Most kids out of high school aren't interested in the trades like they used to be. Jobs like mechanics and welders used to be one of the better paying jobs. You can still make good money doing these jobs but you can make just as much and more sitting at a desk and basically doing the same thing we are here. Looking at a computer screen and punching a keyboard. It's inside work, you don't get dirty, and you don't have to buy anything to do the job. I don't where it is that first year apprentices only make $8 to $10/hr but that's really low. In Alberta, which has higher wages, some first years are getting better than $20/hr. At the shop I worked in, one of the guys just moved from Ontario. He said a second year welder in Alberta makes as much or more than a journeyman in Ontario. According to him, the cost of living is less in Ontario though. Dave
 
Double bingo!

Just about any of us will do just about any job at some wage.

Wages of some jobs are being kept artificially low by illegals who must work for lower wages for a multitude of reasons.

Dean
 
Econonomics will take care of the problem in the long term. Equipment is getting more complicated and mechanics need special training to work on it. The people that use it will have to pay someone to get it repaired because they can"t do it themselves anymore, and they need to get it working fast in order to make money with it.

Young people with college degrees in many fields cannot find work and they will need to get the special training that"s required to repair heavy equipment if they want to work in a job that pays well. (I had an acquaintence who got a BS degree in Anthropology and he always talked about how interesting the field was. However, you need a PhD to get a job in that field and even then, someone has to die before there is an opening. I have engineering degrees and had no difficulty finding a good job in the aircraft industry.) These who think any old college degree will get them a good job are going to find out the hard way that it just isn"t true.

So I think the situation is far from hopeless. Supply and demand will fix the problem. John Deere is sponsoring courses at community colleges and supplying equipment, etc and I"m sure the other heavy equipment folks are doing the same.They"ll be a bunch of vets coming out of the service after these wars are over, or will me mustering out and many have hands on training in heavy equipment maintenane and repair and they"ll be a great resource.

In my opinion, this is a short term problem.
 
What get a job ahere you would get your hands dirty and no airconditioning in the summer. What are we teaching in school just gots to go to college end up with thousands in student loans then cant find a job. Same way with all trades i aint going to get dirty and sweat and then go to work everyday i hear it from time to time in the shops that keep yours and mine cars running and so forth.
 
I work for a municipality and the wage for heavy mechanics is $40,000 annually. That is a tech that is ASE certified....medical coverage is very reasonable...dental is free for 1 person or reasonable for family...state retirement system. The catch is, we work on many varied pieces of equipment..from dozers to mowers...and low bids on equipment mean we work on all different brands. The techs get a $400 tool allowance yearly but that doesn't offset much...all specialized tools are bought by the municipality..there is training all the time on new equipment...I don't think its a bad gig...but when applications come in, there is not alot of techs to choose from. The pool to choose from for new hires has slowly dropped over the 30 years I have been there....no one wants to work anymore.
 
Shoot $23 what is that. Now days even the guys going into the Military are not getting close to that but they do get a lot better then what we did back in the 70s. And then there are the people that have retired and live on S.S. and are lucky if they get $1000 a month now that is hard to live on any place in the world
 
It's not so much the schools that don't value the trades, it's the higher ups on the school board. I went to a trade school for high school. It had a very good reputation for students getting hired after they graduated because they had lots of practical experience going in. In the mid 90's the number of students enrolling seriously declined. There was talk of turning the school into a regular high school, to save on the cost of building a new school, for the increased population but that was put on hold for a few years. I firmly believe that what happened was the school counsellors that went to Jr. High schools to talk about different high schools and career choices, stopped pushing the trades. School enrollment goes way down and it makes a much easier decision to turn the trade school into a regular high school. My welding teacher said it was a real shame to turn it from a trades school to what they now call a science and technology school. All the welding, machine shop, sheet metal, automotive, plumbing, carpentry, etc, etc. tools were sold off. The school used to build truck campers and even had a service station complete with gas pumps as part of the automotive shop. The welding shop built a tandem axle horse trailer with the sheet metal shop doing the roof and sides. How many high school kids could do these kind of projects today? Dave
 
the problem has been caused by these vocations being boned out by illegals and others, I remember carpenters, now I see hispanics ( legal and illegal) standing on new construction with nailguns. no money in it anymore.
 
Zooey, hate to burst your bubble, but techs right out of school aren't going to make $40K-$50K a year. $20K to $30K is much more realistic. There are a few women in the auto repair business around here. From time to time there is one that works at a Ford dealer like I do and gets sent to training updates. I've met very few girls who are willing to get dirty to do a job, so I suppose that is one of the biggest reasons women seem to avoid mechanical jobs.
Before you say why graduate with huge debt after 4 years to join the unemployed, carefully choose a career. My wife has a doctorate in pharmacy. Yes, she left school with about $150K in debt, but she also stepped into a career where there is little turnover and can't be easily replaced. The economy has very little effect on Pharmacy because no matter what the economy is, people still have to have their meds. In small town Iowa she makes over $100K. If you have little or no money saved for school, consider the military. The G.I. Bill can get you some serious cash for school for just a few years service. Having military experience will help you when you do go to the private sector for a job.
 
No offense intended, but you sound like my older brother who makes over $200K a year and is always broke. No house, no driver's license, no car -and says he can barely make ends meet while living in Boston and writing computer programs for Ebay, et. al.

When I bought my first house in central New York around 1979 - it sat empty for a year while I searched for work where the house was. I was paying a 10 year, $12,000 mortgage at 14%, while I also paid rent where I was living in Florida, NY, four kids, wife not working and I was making $7 per hour. When I finally found a job where the house was - at a Deere dealerhip, I took a pay cut and started at $4 per hour. We moved and for years, I was the only one working. By the early 80s, I was being paid $6 per hour, with a lot of overtime in the summer, and . . . I ran my own repair shop at home on a cash-basis. I raised four kids that way and we survived. We ate a lot of deer meat, and cut a lot of wood - but it didn't seem all that bad at that time.

What would be the equivalent be now? I just bought a house last year with 5 acres and a nice pole barn in Northern Michigan for $32K. So, 2 1/2 X what I paid in 1979? Gas now is $3.15 per gallon and it was a buck-something back late 70s. I buy a used car or truck now for $500-$2000. In the late 70s - maybe $150-$1000. I bought one new car - a bare-bones Nissan Sentra in 1987 for $5900. Now - a new Kia or Daewoo is around $12K?

With all the government give-aways now, I suspect a person making $23 per hour, who spent carefully, could live pretty well. My daughter makes less then that, owns her own home, has her own daughter, and does pretty good. It's hard to believe how much stuff she gets from government give-aways, even though she is a full-time nurse.
 
Some areas dont see the rise in property prices. 8 years ago I could of bought land for $1500 now its $4000. Is your daughter paying on a 15 year note or 30 year note? In 1979 interest rates were at 7%. If you bought a house and 5 acres you got it way cheap.
 
There was such a demand for heavy duty mechanics in Alberta a couple years ago, that shops were giving hiring bonuses. Good mechanics are making better than $30/hr here. Some on flat rate make a lot more than that. Dave
 
Your comment is right-on! One always has to be suspicious when the employers start yelling "there's a worker shortage! there's a worker shortage!", because they always leave off the important disclaimer: "for the wages we want to pay". These employers with high turnover and can"t find the help just want to get by paying poor wages and benefits. THAT'S why they can't get workers! It's simple economics: pay enough for the product (workers) and the supply will take care of the demand.
 
Quote:
"How are you supposed to make a living and raise a family on only $23 an hour? "
I think that is one of the problems in this country right now. You need to look in the mirror and have a talk with the wife and kids. No more fast/junk foods, bowling night, speed boat, camper etc. I have a close friend that just got a mortgage approved to buy a house and his gross income is about 13 thousand from social security. He will make it.
 
After reading all the posts below , I have came to the conclusion your post is correct.

Everyone wants to be Chief and no Indians are left.

They leave Hi School with a dream that they will be the first to be hired in an already flooded job market.

They don't seem to look at the foresight in the area they want to live in to see what profession would be most suiting long term.

Lots of grads end up with a degree and work in fast food restaurants, or as a Quality Assurance person in a factory. not relating to their schooling.
 
Interest rates here in Central NY from local banks in 1979 were 14%-16% for fixed-rate, and VA mortgages/loans were around 9-10%. A friend of mine bought a farm here in 1979 with a VA loan at 9%. I remember thinking how 9% seemed so low it was almost beyond belief.

10 years ago I bought 60 acres of mixed woods and pasture here for $400 per acre. Now it would probably sell for $1500 per acre.

My daughter bought a HUD house. It had a 120K mortgage against it. She got it for a total sale-price of $59K. They GAVE her (or got her) a $10K down-payment. NOT a loan - a give-way. So, she got the house at $49K, they put in a new heating system and a new roof (no charge and no loans), a 20 year mortgage with a fixed rate of somewhere around 6%. Her only requirement is she has to live there for at least 5 years (or something like that). If she bails out early, she will owe a lot of extra money.

As to home prices in Northern Michigan? I had my pick of many pretty good houses in rural and semi-rural areas for as low as $10,000. There are many bank-owned foreclosures available. I took my time because I wanted something with a good pole barn and some land. I passed up an old farm, farmhouse, 40 accres of fields (no woods) and natrual gas available for $25K.

I also saw many good homes for sale in the City of Alpena - also northern MI. They too were available cheap if foreclosed on. To the converse, my inlaws bought a rural 10 acre river-front lot in Alpena Township (outside city limits) for $10K in 1995. Now those 10 acre lots are selling for $50K to $75K each.

By the way. . . the old farm house that I bought here in 1979 for $12K . . . just sold to a couple from Colorado for $175K. It's in nicer shape now - but not that much nicer.
 
I right now am going to college for a mechanical degree and work for a dealership. Its a really hard decision to make but today, 30-40k isn't a lot of money, At least not in my area. I have yet to decide wither i'm going to continue with he 4 year or go back to working at my dealership.

I would say that your right in saying that most kids today dont want to get their hands dirty with tools. But that just works out better for me because when theres no one left, pay wages will go up for mechanics.
 
(quoted from post at 16:40:30 12/04/10) I was talking to a local John Deere dealer the other day, and he was complaining about how tough it is to get qualified heavy equipment mechanics, and that the situation is going to get worse. He's been tearing his hair out because most of his experienced mechs are in their late fifties and he doesn't know what he'll do when these guys start to retire. He's even offering scholarships to the local community college for those who want to learn heavy equipment repair. I myself work for a company that provides maintenance services for large electrical motors in industry, and we are having trouble getting "new" people. It just seems like young people today don't want to work with tools and this kind of stuff. I've talked to several young people who are about to graduate from high school in my town, and all they talk about is going to college and getting a degree in business or finance or marketing or something. Why someone would want to spend 4 years in school and graduate with a load of debt, and join a bunch of other unemployed college grads. When you can go to school for 18 months and get hired even before you graduate, and start earning $40-$50k as a diesel mechanic? There seems to be this prejudice about doing this kind of work among young people today. About the only young people who seem to want to do this "hands-on" kind of work are the farm kids, and with rural population going the way it is, they are getting scarcer and scarcer.

I also wonder why we can"t see more young women go into this kind of work. I mean, a woman can be as good a mechanic technician as a man.
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I am sorry to learn that wages are low. There are some intangibles concerning tractor and auto-mechanics. Growing up on the farm I idolized mechanics who could make machines run. The whole community depended on the expertise of the Farmall and Deere Mechanics. There is nothing quite so satisfying as fixing something that others gave up on. I bet Tim S., jdemaris, and others can tell some wonderful stories about the gratitude farmers had for fixing their machines.
 
I have 25 people who raise a family on less than that. Their spouse may work also and they live within their means.
 
One thing I've seen delivering parts for NAPA to shops is, most shops working on large equipment like semi trucks have nasty working conditions, including cold and inadequate lighting. Sometimes it also means working outside in the winter on disabled equipment.
 
I retired from local Deere farm equip dealership 11 years ago this month. Made $11 and hour and full health ins. No 401K or retirement plans. I had only worked there four years as I spent first 37 years at IH and CaseIH dealership. I was top paid at IH and in the middle at Deere. When I started at IH dealer I was paid by the month, $220, 54 hour week, one week vacation, no health ins, not even covered by unemployment ins as not enough employees in them days. Stayed broke enough so had to have the next pay check to live and no time to look for another better job. I always enjoyed figuring out how things worked and when I started working there I had three years of Army experience repairing motor trucks. Thought I would get a job as auto mechanic, could not find a job so was offered this one on tractors. Never even drove a diesel let alone repaired one. Ended up doing a lot of pump work and aways liked doing that although it was intense. Would I have done it differently, I don't really know. Every one of my friends and relatives that have died didn't seem to take much with them to the cemetery. I have always been able to get by, don't know if I will much longer but that isn't for me to decide anymore. OH, I did make a little more the last couple years I worked at CASEIH dealer but I could not stomach the new ownerships way of doing bussiness. I kind of liked to repair things and not just replace it and actually repair what needs repairing.
 
A big part of the reason... there is a predisposed idea in the world today that you need a college education, followed by the notion that any dummy can be a mechanic... so the highly educated who operate our education system will never recomend that anyone take a trade... I had the oppertunity to take heavy duty when I was in high school and got 2 of the 4 blocks of that trade... and I can remember being chastized by a great number of people (teachers) for doing so... because I could do 'more'... the implication always having been that it was just the rubberheads that took a trade. This attitude was and remains ingrained in the education system and for the most part, the population in general.
The reality is... most of the people that took a trade when I did were there as a means to an end... a way to get through school without working too hard... not because they had any intention of learning anything or actually working in the trade when they got out. If 10% of the class took any real interest... I think the teachers were somewhat amazed.
The irony today though... if someone is to be successfull in most trades... and I use heavy duty as an example... you need a very strong background in reading comprehension, math and just applying logical thought to problem solving. A person that can do well in this trade could also do well in law... or medical school... or a thousand other things. The problem in the trade today is that a lot of the systems that people are being expected to diagnose and repair range somewhere between somewhat and waaayyyy over the heads of the people working on them.
The education system needs to get an understanding of that fact itself... then they can start preparing people so that they can get to that level. The people who are there today... at least around here... make BIG money turning wrenches. For the simple reason that they can do what other can't do and the companies have to pay if they want the head that can solve the problem. I know guys probably not licensed journeymen more than 5 years who are making ~25-30 plus per hour with Cat and no shortage of hours. That's not bad money on a 50-60 hour week with time and a half after 40...
Even pretty basic licensed guys are getting 20/hour around here.

Rod
 
Local guys around here in Michigan struggle to make 30K a year. And these guys got 15 - 20K worth of tools. And it can be pretty physical, always dirty, sometimes dirty or cold. No benefits, no extras. Basically a real sucky job.
 
Hate to say it, but these problems are the result of the American comsumer, always penny pinching, looking for cheap deals, buying China crap, price shopping and only buying what they cant find elsewhere at the local dealers. The local dealers used to sell most of a farmers twine, wire, bolts, grease, etc. etc. Now the penny pinching consumer whops everywhere else first and only gives the dealer business for very hard to find parts. This causes the dealers to have to raise prices, raise per hour shop charges, so it is a never ending sprial. Americans put quality as the bottom criteria list when buying. Wont even buy the real manuals, try to get by with cheap IT manuals, use cheap oil, etc. Then cry around the coffee shop about high the dealers prices are. Tom
 
You are in Canada. Much better for working folks. You have a lot more union work, better mandated working wages and conditions. I visit some of my friends in Canada, and I feel like a peon by comparison. The standard of living is higher in Canada.
 
I do it just fine thank you very much! I live within my means, and dont waste what I make on bullcrap I dont need. I make 22.50 an hour at my job, and I always have money left at the end of the week. EVERYTHING my wife makes goes into saving.
 
Right on! I know of no mechanic starting at 40k in MI. When I started out in the late 80's I went 2 yrs to college and worked for 2 then returned and got a management degree. In 88 I was offered 21k to be asst service manager at a Navistar dealer (not enough money to be everyone's pi$$ing post). i went back to work turning wrenches, the pay?.. 8.50/hr!!! I was lucky to get into a forklift shop for Whopping 11$/hr. I luckily got into a large plant which has their own garage and make union wage. But its only a matter of time until some pinhead figures he can outsource us to the local dealers, why? because they only pay 12-15$/hr. max., but mostly 8.50 to 9.00/hr. they just laid off all our truck drivers that were making 20$ and replaced them with 14$/hr people. Why won't kids do it today? The same reason they wouldn't when I went to college in the 80's, Money!! I laughed so hard at the "nerds" I roomed with in college that were in CIT,(computer info technology) and marketing. There i was learning to wrench and they were typing. Guess what? they made good money and 25 yrs later are probably situated to retire. Me? they'll carry me out of the shop. I could have chosen anything, I should have chosen money.
 
One think to keep in mind is the employee pay roll taxes, workers compentation, liaiabilty insurance , unemployment insurance ect, ect, for each employee.It adds up to alot of dollars just to hire a person. Thats on top of the employees paychek. Maybe Canada dosent have so many taxes on the workers.
 
I wouldn't say there's more union work in Canada, BC there is though. I agree with Rod. I went to a trade school because it sounded like the best thing for me. My dad had to practically fight to get me enrolled there. School counselors wanted me to go to a regular high school. There were some rather slow students at the trade school that wouldn't have made it in regular high school. A lot of students in regular high school referred to the trade school as a school for dummies. Move ahead to graduation time and the job market. My teacher encouraged me to look for a shop to take me on as an apprentice welder. I was offered two such positions and left school 2 weeks early. Again encouraged to take the job. I was making $7.31/hr fresh out of school in 1981 and about 6 months later the shop got a 13.58% raise and I went to $8.30/hr. People graduating from an academic school were fighting over a $4.75/hr job at McDonalds. Working with your hands isn't for everyone but when I was making almost twice as much, I really question who the dummies were. Sadly the school I went to converted to an academic school. I think most of it had to do with the school boards like Rod said. Dave
 
True!Plus after a while,and you are dirty all the time,cuts on your hands and stuff,buying tools constantly and treated like a slave,you get tired of it.There are lots of things wrong with the job and then I see where some want women to be a mechanic.Why? Being a mechanic I had enough trouble to deal with,without having a woman in the shop along with it.Ive seen shops where a woman worked there and these women who do jobs like men want to do,are usually trouble.Some of them might be good,but I think the whole idea behind getting women to do a mans job is so they can pay her less than they do a man and get away with it.
So getting women to be mechanics is not going to work,saying that people dont want to do it is wrong,they just dont want to pay somebody enough to make a living at it,and for all you have to put up with,it should be a high paying job like a Doctor or something.
Dealers charge way high prices but they have overhead,still they make money.They have to.
The trouble is that you have to be real good to make it as a mechanic.Fast,accurate,and not worry about getting your hands dirty,or gripe about overtime,or being called out at night,and paid well enough to keep them,costs a bunch of money,so they take less than good mechanics,pay them bad,and treat them bad,and they dont do very good work,which gives all mechanics a bad name.
It takes a lot of experience to be a good mechanic,and by the time one gets good,they want to run you off and get somebody cheaper.
Theres a lot of things wrong these days.Nothing has any balance to it.Nobody cares about anybody else,its just how low they can get wages and how much they can get you to do without quitting,and way went past reasonable a long time ago.
 
I think it would have to be the school boards. Thank god it happened after I graduated high school, (or was pushed out,, lol) I found out about 10 years later the school took out the wood/metal shops. I always wondered what happened to all the equipment they had, welders, torches, radial arm saws, table saw jointer, plainer and all the rest of the stuff.Now its computer labs. You cant force all the kids to learn the same thing, sure some are gonna be brains at desk jobs, but your gonna need guys like me who work with there hands also. Mechanic jobs may suck, but it needs to be done and some people like doing it. and they way things are today, so computerized, most mechanics I know are anything but dummies.
 
Well, as long as the general public thinks their broken vehicle or whatever suddenly belongs to a mechanic and should be fixed for free or with the parts they want to bring in or as cheap and to the same standards their neighbor"s wife"s ex-son-in-law would do it for, they will get what they get.

We (I) used to look at vehicles on the front drive and tell the owner"s what the problem appeared to be. I don"t do that any longer. Can"t afford to. I don"t read codes for free either, AutoZone can do that. They get to sell lots of parts that don"t fix anything. When I sell a part it has to fix something.

Tapping with a hammer, $9.95. Knowing where to tap, $990.05.
 
This is a very interesting discussion on a very important topic. Along with a partner, I own and manage an automotive repair shop. It is not the same as a heavy ag shop but has many similarities. In thirty five years I have done most everything from cleaning floors, busting tires, wrecker calls, heavy line work, some diesel work. Now I mainly do diagnostic, electrical work and quality control. My partner handles the business end. I've never gotten rich, but I have always fed the family. I employ three good young techs. My lowest paid flat rate tech makes $23.50 per billed hour. I pad that a little because I tell my techs that I want quality and I am willing to pay. If they have extra time in a job and they can justify the time I will pay them extra, even if I can't bill the customer. Before we opened the shop, I made $32.00 per hour flat rate at the last shop I worked at. There is a living to be made as a tech. That said, I believe that there are some real problems out there. Even with the unemployment situation right now, it is extremely difficult to hire a young guy. The lack of skills of high school grads, particularly in math and reading is troubling. Over the years, I have worked with a number of trade school grads, and overall, frankly I haven't been particularly impressed. One can indeed make a living and support a family as a tech, but it takes time, training, and commitment. By the way, I have five sons, I've never encouraged them to do this for a living. One of my sons is a journeyman electrician. He makes more money and has better benefits than I do. LOL
 
I suspect in most cases, as near as I can gather from comments that I read here... that we mostly have similar levels of taxaition though it's structured and collected a bit differently. The notable difference is that from that taxation... our healthcare is mostly paid for while in the US your healthcare remains the responsibility of the individual or as a benefit provded for in part by the employer... so that increases either your cost of living or the employers cost of doing business. We still have the high comp costs and all of the other various insurance costs aside from primary healthcare.

Rod
 
We may have a bit better standard of living here but on average I don't think it's a big difference one way or the other. I wouldn't attribute it to unions if there was much difference. They suck the life from a business the same here as everywhere else. Cape Breton (where I'm from) probably has one of the lowest standards of living and poorest economies of anywhere in the country... and the UMW(A) mindset is alive and well... much like the Steelworkers in spite of the fact that the last mine closed in May 2001 and the mill in August of 2000... While it's not fair to blame the unions for that entirely it was a well known fact that a good many worked to steal the place blind for a long LONG time, never mind the absenteeism and other problems. They've never adjusted to the new reality.

Rod
 
I wouldn't argue the point that a person who spent carefully couldn't live on 23/hour. I'm sure they could... but... you also need to remeber that for many, many years our dollar didn't buy near what yours did. 10-15 years ago there was many a joke about it being the northern peso and a lot of talk about it hitting 50 cents US. Today they're roughly at parity... and the buying power has probably increased a bunch... but nobody will willingly reduce prices or take a pay cut just because the dollar is worth more... so for the most part the real buying power hasn't changed that much for an individual. Probably gone into corporate profits more than anything... we just have larger sums changing hands.

Rod
 
There is a wide disparity in wages here due to the wide disparity in skills and abilities... I know of places paying minimum wage and others that are over 30/hour... and the shop paying the 10 bucks would be glad to pay more if he could get the good guys... but they're not available... and he can't afford to pay big dollars to guys that don't have the skills.

Rod
 
It is a huge problem facing this country. I think the 40-50000 a year may be a little bit decieving. AT 40000 a year are they ( the owners) paying retirement, health care, etc. for the employees or do the employees have to pay-their is a big difference between gross pay and net pay. Kind of like the old military salemanship of the compensation package( they pay for room and board, meals clothes etc.) and that total is sold as the compensation. That being said all the dealers I know seem to make a big return on their employees labor and the job security may not be there. I know a young man who just graduated from a local diesel Tech school and is struggling because of low pay coupled with living expenses.
 
Bottom line is, those who have never worked for a dealership already have their minds made up that the ONLY reason there's a shortage of mechanics is because nobody wants to work. No amount of evidence or argument is going to change their minds. And the guys in Canada will never believe that mechanics start out at $8 to $10 an hour, because they apparently start for more money than that in the Great White North. But if you check the ads, you'll find that unless you have 5 years or more experience, here in Middle America you'll start out on the lube rack, no matter how much vocational training you have or how many ASE tests you've passed.

AND THEN there's the thing about having your own tools. NOBODY loans tools, so if you plan to start out as a mechanic, you'd better either have everything you think you'll need, or have a Sears card or good enough credit to buy off the Snap-On truck.

So if you're going to start out only making $8-$10 an hour, why spend thousands of dollars on the tools? McDonalds provides deep fryer baskets, spatulas, brooms and mops for the same wage. I hear Burger King does, too.
 
My first non-farm job was at the local GM dealer in 84. I liked the work, the environment, the people, and they started easing me into the heavy truck work.
I would have stayed except for money. It paid minimum wage, and when they gave raises it was 10 cents at a time.
Went to industrial construction and been there ever since. It pays well and when you're on the management side of it you can make a very nice living.
 

i just have to smile to myself everytime i see one of those young mechanics working with gloves on and a spotless uniform . if thats the way they feel about getting their hands greasy they shoud get a wussy job in a office . i know from experience a good mechanic goes by feel quite often . most have to have their nose stuck in a computer to tell them what to do
 
I was told over 20 years ago, that a qualified mechanic hourly pay should be 1/3 of the garages hourly chargeout rate. There are also experienced,qualified mechanics willing to work in the US, but why does US immigration make it so hard for them to get a "Green card"?
 
I was surprised to see guys with gloves myself, a few years back. Not young one either. I asked about it, they said that the new fluids used are much more likely to be dangerous. I think folks are just more aware of problems.
 
Ya I started out in 72 for $2 hr and 20 yrs later $7.50. Then new owners run everybody off. So worked out of back of pickup,custom hay baler in season then oilfeild service company for last 10 yrs making 30-35 thou a year. Aint got nuthin but it's all paid for. Pay cash for everything I buy or don't buy it.Kids all gone and got their own problems. Buy and sell few tractors for parts or scrap.Do some tractor work now and then. Puts some cash in pocket.
 
At the vocational school. they were all about us wearing those nitrile gloves whenever we were liable to come into contact with engine fluids of any sort. I wasn't too comfortable with it, and I'd usually manage to break or tear 'em anyway.
 
Canada varies, just as areas of the USA do. I've never felt "small" there, but have often felt out of place. I feel right at home in French-speaking areas of Quebec, but not in places like London,Ontario. But, I wouldn't feel any better in New York City either. Half of my family (a few generations back) left Port Royal, Nova Scotia and Nicolet, Quebec to find what they considered a better life in the USA. The other half of my family left southern France and tried to live in in the "Royal Mountain" area of Montreal. They hated the place and moved to New Jersey. So, to each his own. The grass is often "greener" on the other side of the fence.

There are many states in the USA with higher median incomes then in any of the provinces of Canada - but there's a huge difference between "standard of living" and "quality of living." One can be measured with numbers, and the other is a personal thing -sometimes based on perception. I can't speak for any Canadians, but I know many people in the USA with tons of money and toys and a very unhappy exisitence.

In Canada, the highest median-income is in the Northwest Territories at $98,500. Lowest in Nunavut at $58,590. At least so the stats say.

In the USA? Santa-Clara County in California at $103,500 and the Aleutians in Alaska at $96,300 (and no income tax). Lowest in Mississippi at $35,000.

If somebody were actually able to measure "quality or life", I suspect it is very high in some of lowest-income areas on earth. Areas where people have to depend on one-another to survive.
 
the only reason is the LAZY little @^%$&^%*()&^%$$ don't want to work because Mom & Daddy give them everything. just to day had a little snot nose brat pull up to the shop in a 2010 Camaro that had a low tire and wanted me to put air in it gave him the hose & gage. looks at me and said what the FU-K should it do with this so i said figure it out. he got in is car and left less then a mile down the road and a half hour latter he was on the shoulder and AAA was there changing his tire with him sitting in his Daddys car
 
Well B$D , you can't IF you pay someone else to change your oil , wash and clean your car , repair your car , repair your appliancec , fix your running toilet , mow your lawn , plow snow from your drive way , buy wood for your stove , have to have speed instead of dial-up , have to have all the premium chanels on cable , 2 or 3 cell phones with all the bells and whistles , new vihicles every 4 yrs , send your teen kids to Cancun for spring break , quads , jet-skis , snowmobiles , paved driveways , pools , ya-ta-ya-ta-ya-ta...I make $18 an hr and never more than $37,000 yr , stay-at-home wife , 2 kids (grown now) I've had classic cars '71 Cutlass , '66 GTO , '67 Le-mans , bowling league (3 300 games&one 299) now 2 old JD,s and equipment for them and new equipment trailer ya-ta-ya-ta. Point is I work my @ss off and get my hands dirty and twisted up and cracked. I have educated myself so i can repair anything I own instead of paying everyone else while I'm out playing golf with the boys. Auto body / paint / restoration work all my life after growing up on the farm. Spose could have moved to big city and made more they say. "Big cities in my area have a higher death rate than any war since WWII. Thank you not , my life and that of my family is worth more than the $15,000 more a yr I might have made. Yuo young people better reallize right now , you've been sold a bill of goods by your State run school systems to keep your State run universities afloat. You will pay dearly when you find out their promises after graduation fall way short of reallity. A skilled trade will always be in demand. The more you have the better. Everyone complains about $65 hr flat rates at their repair dealership? What other professional that you go to charges less??? Oh , I forgot , they aren't professionals , they are just grease monkeys who MUST take care of MY car! When the numbers get fewer the cost of their services will increase. Better yet , pass legislation that makes it against the law to have a dent or dammage or rust or a car with ANY mechanical issues and we will all be on the golf course at 3:00 just like the insurance salesman and lawyers. The "laws" filled their pockets quite nicely. WHY did you have to get me going????
 
The only people to blame for a shortage of young mechanics are the owners of these dealerships. I went to tech school to be a tractor mechaninc, and in 2003, I graduated. I went to my first dealership (Case IH) and stayed there for 13 months. The boss says your good at things you do many times, but your too slow at new things. I would think you get a learning curve...NO...so I quit working for him. I then went into lawn and garden repair in an Agco dealership- I stayed there for 9 months. This owner promised you the world- money, benefits, etc- total lies! I rarely had anything to do, and while I was there, a Deere dealer recruited me to work for them...so off to Deere. I worked at the Deere dealership for just a few weeks short of 3 years. At the time of my termination, I was fully John Deere certified as an "advanced technician" They told me some bs, but it came down to they had the former Snap-on dealer begging for a job (him and the shop foreman are buddies).

So, after 5 years of experience, you would like to think your skills and credentials would mean something, but they don't. I now drive dump truck and work part time in the US Postal Service. Along with that, I buy and sell farm equipment and farm. I am much more happy doing this then putting up with the dealership hassle. Go tell your dealership they are full of it, there are lots of young men WANTING to be in a dealership, its their unrealistic views on employees that cost them many, many good men!
 
Apparently, according to a lot of guys on these boards, you just didn't want to work...cause if you wanted to work, you'd have never left the first place. I don't think that way, but apparently a lot of folks do.
 
Yeah, I must not know how to work. You know, I make more money now doing my jobs and having alot more FUN selling my own tractors and parts. I guess in the 80's when I was growing up, I had an idea that people within these dealerships really care about their employees and customers. I still can remember a free hat or a friendly visit on the farm was common! And this was only 25 years ago...
 
(quoted from post at 16:06:56 12/04/10) Canada varies, just as areas of the USA do. I've never felt "small" there, but have often felt out of place. I feel right at home in French-speaking areas of Quebec, but not in places like London,Ontario. But, I wouldn't feel any better in New York City either. Half of my family (a few generations back) left Port Royal, Nova Scotia and Nicolet, Quebec to find what they considered a better life in the USA. The other half of my family left southern France and tried to live in in the "Royal Mountain" area of Montreal. They hated the place and moved to New Jersey. So, to each his own. The grass is often "greener" on the other side of the fence.

There are many states in the USA with higher median incomes then in any of the provinces of Canada - but there's a huge difference between "standard of living" and "quality of living." One can be measured with numbers, and the other is a personal thing -sometimes based on perception. I can't speak for any Canadians, but I know many people in the USA with tons of money and toys and a very unhappy exisitence.

In Canada, the highest median-income is in the Northwest Territories at $98,500. Lowest in Nunavut at $58,590. At least so the stats say.

In the USA? Santa-Clara County in California at $103,500 and the Aleutians in Alaska at $96,300 (and no income tax). Lowest in Mississippi at $35,000.

If somebody were actually able to measure "quality or life", I suspect it is very high in some of lowest-income areas on earth. Areas where people have to depend on one-another to survive.
Click to expand...

My family history is similar - French Canadian. What I see is that there aren't a whole lot of Canadian billionares, but the average folks aren't struggling like people here are. In Michigan, the average family income has actually decreased in the last 10 years - 7 to 8K. One of my neighbor's is a manager for a small auto supplier. 10 years ago, he was paying $15 per hour for production workers. Not a lot of money, but enough to live on. Now he pays just over 8. If it goes any higher, the work will go to a Mexican plant. If he does't keep the wages down, he won't have a job. Most workers qualify for food stamps, free school lunches for the kids. The HR departments at these shops hand out info on assistance programs. Pretty depressing places to work, these days.
 
I manage an Outdoor power dealership and have for about 15 years -- people wanting to be a mechanic are a dime a dozen -- people I would hire are very few. MY mechanics MUST deal directly with the public and answer phones so if I think your apperance would scare MY wife it will certinly scare others ( no visable tatoos no smoking no foul mouth) our lowest paid man makes 32000.00 northern michigan
 
A hot topic for sure !

I think with all the high tech electronics in todays machines if you are going to have the smarts and interest in all that electronics you are going to also be smart enough to know you will make ALOT more in another field like IT , computer repair ? and many other options I have no clue of because I know very little about computers. I really can't stand them and tend to agree with some of the older folks I know or knew years ago that they would be the ruin of this country. The longer I'm around the more correct it seems they were.

I'm in Northcentral Ohio and where I have worked and the folks I have worked with made no where near the amounts of money mentioned in some of these posts. Most jobs start at around $8.00 hr. no benefits. Some you can get $10.00 - $11.00 hr with benefits parts stores ? factories ? Auto techs not sure but they are likely not real high. $14.00-starting ? bet many aren't up to $20.00 yet. Raises come few and in small amounts.
 
Where are you located? I am in So. Ill. and willing to do anything! I have been with my current employer for 6 years, got a four year degree in Animal Science (because they promised me a good job and good pay) with a minor in Ag Business and 3.8 GPA, Class A CDL with tanker endorsement,mechanically enclined, and not afraid to put in a hard day"s work.

Where am I at now do you ask??? Working 12 on 2 off, first on-call 7 of those days and second on-call the remaining 7. I have two female boss"s who combined have less experience with hogs than I do. My direct boss is extremely unreliable, usually about 10 min late, routinely has to leave early or leave during lunch break, constantly lets the hogs run out of feed, and routinely screws up the paper work (all of which I did dang good, hogs never out of feed unless something broke down and the paper work was nearly flawless; but they said I wasn"t qualified for the job which I had been doing for almost 2 years). And her boss is just a puppet who repeats what everyone else says and gossips to her neighboring cubicle about everything. I am making 33K a year paying almost $500 a month out of that for medical (each year my employer decreases their contribution, my BIL is paying less than we are and he is on his own but does have a slightly higher deductible). I am working for the FIL on the side to make ends meet.

Again I ask, where are you located? Anyone in So. Ill. hiring let me know.
 
I've been out of high school two years now, if i wasn't on the farm i would want to be working as a tractor mechanic. Closest deere dealer is 44 miles away though. Instead i end up spending more money to fix up my tractors than i would if i bought them already restored but it sure is ALOT more fun that way. My dad and i work on the neighbors stuff after chores, helps support our collecting
 
I used to think like you too. Now I wear gloves. I got tired of scratching at the never ending eczema I seemed to have. Now I wear gloves with everything I do. Spend a lot less time washing my hands too.

Rod
 
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Me too,,,, I couldent stand it when a wrench slipped off a nut, or a bolt broke, smashing my hands or fingers against some hard stationary object. Jay
 
my sister was telling us a customer where she works a lady is getting govt. handouts to tune of 3 grand a month in food stuffs.
she and her husband are both unemployeed are about to lose their house.
she told viv she would give viv hams and turkeys as they can"t eat all the freebes and that isn"t all they need help for.
oh she told viv if thet don"t take the whole amount they will get kicked out of the program
makes sense does"nt it
 
(quoted from post at 18:01:22 12/04/10) my sister was telling us a customer where she works a lady is getting govt. handouts to tune of 3 grand a month in food stuffs.
she and her husband are both unemployeed are about to lose their house.
she told viv she would give viv hams and turkeys as they can"t eat all the freebes and that isn"t all they need help for.
oh she told viv if thet don"t take the whole amount they will get kicked out of the program
makes sense does"nt it
Click to expand...

I flat out don't believe it. Food assistance is not given out in food, hasn't in years. They give out a card, like a debit card, good for so many $$$. It's never more than a few hundred a month, even if you have a buttload of kids.
 
Yeah, sometimes it helps to walk in the other guy's shoes for a while to get a sense of where he is coming from.
 
Just cause someone had a tattoo or smoked wouldn't be enough reason for me not to hire them. I'd base it more on what there skills were for the job they'd be hired for. Dave
 
I've seen those kind of set backs too when I have worked off the farm. Never wanted to believe in the old adage about "it's not what you know, it's who you know" but I wonder anymore. The economy has been pretty tough here the last ten years and even though we have had more than our share of set backs I feel fortunate we have what we have.
 
I want to thank everyone for commenting on my post. I never realized this could be such a hot topic. Some additional thoughts:

It seems like some say that mechanics in the farm industry don't make much money, while others say that they do. I think there is a wide variation among employers that causes the wage difference. I don't know what the JD dealer I mention pays his mechanics, but I do know that his mechanics seem to live ok, probably better than most people around here.

With the new computerized technology getting into everything from tractors to combines to planters, I don't think that dealers--at least the good ones--are going to get by anymore just with a guy who knows how to turn a socket wrench. Farm equipment technology has changed drastically just in the last 5 years. These aren't your Dad's tractors and combines anymore. I was reading a manual for one of the new big combines, and I was amazed at how complex and elaborate it was. Many of the latest tractors and combines are now wired with a LAN data computer network, and the literature was about serial communications and digital gateways---VERY technical stuff! Plus, if you add in GPS you have a very technical machine. Not only do machinery techs have to have a good mechanical knowledge, they almost have to be knowlegeable in Digital Electronics technology.

And no longer are models staying the same year after year. According to a farm mechanic I spoke to, they almost have to have 2 weeks of factory training every year just to keep up and stay knowledgeable with all the new stuff coming out of the factories.
 
I worked at four different farm equipment dealers. The last being five years ago. I never made more than $15.50 per hour. My neighbor works at a dealer in North-east Iowa. He just got to $20 per hour. He has a tech degree and twenty years on the job, plus 30-40k in tools.

I do repair work I get $40.00 an hour. Clear about twenty after shop expenses. Biggest problem I have is people paying. I don"t take credit cards or Farm Plan. Work has slowed down the last several years. The small to medium size farmers that where my clientèle are getting fewer. The big guys run new stuff.

That dealer that told you he was worried will want to start a new tech at 20-30k. Young people can do much better than that. If you work on trucks or construction equipment you can make about 50% more than you can at a farm equipment dealer. Man I worked with twelve years ago switched to construction equipment ten years ago. Doubled his annual pay.

I farm with my brother and drive a semi part time in the winter. It takes all three to make a good living but it is much better than working than what I was making at the dealerships.
 
You have that right. About maybe 6-8 years ago my friend bought a CAT 988g loader I think was the #, he said if it has any problems, southworth milton a cat dealer sends a guy out with a laptop, plugs in the phone line and can determine whats wrong with it. I mean its hard to move a machine that big.
 
I could care less if a women worked on my vehicle as long as it was done properly. Women are less likely to be slackers in a male dominated trade. It's a fact that women make excellent welders because they have steadier hands and are more patient. Women have won the AWS professional welder challenge 2 years in a row. You're walking on real thin ice bringing women into the equation. Any shop I've ever worked in that hired a woman, never regretted it. Why? Because they were darn good at their job. Dave
 
1.One of the reasons I think is because parents now buy their kids x-boxs instead of erector sets.
2.Vocational training is being done away with at high schools in favor of golf & photography, underwater basket weaving and what not.
3.The few kids with mechanical aptitudes are robbed of them.
4. Money isn't everything but kids now days are led to believe it is.
 

#1 you have got to want to do it
#2 you have got to B willing to pay the price...

Once in a blue moon you will run across someone with who went to a trade school and stayed in the trade,,, and done quite well... I went to the local tinker teck 3 weeks and walked out... We did the same thing for 2 weeks,,, I was not their to get GI joe money are a minority milk'n if for all I could get...

I do not know of a school that's accelerated and can go thru the basic in a year,,, most are a two year deal BUT hand out a useless degree... Its all about take'n daddy's money...

I have know some good dealer wrenches that made over 100K a year at a new car dealer,,, They both now have their own shop ,,,wonder why,,, they were top gun's that had the right stuff (a rare breed)...

Wranching is production work so how in their right mind is will'n to put it all on the line when their are better jobs out their...

The top gun at the local GM dealer clicks over 80K a year,,, he's a hustler (a rare breed)... I am told he's not the best wrench their,,, the best makes 60K that's slower but never a come back...

at most dealers the shop supports the whole show,,, commission for the top guns is around $25 a hour so if you hang a set of pads on in a hour and the job pays 3 that's $75.... It the job pays a hour and it takes you 3 it figgers @ 8.34 a hour... This is were the new guy takes a lick'n,,, the top guns get the gravy and leaves the bones to the new guy... Their once were plenty of new guys fresh out of the local tinker teck that were told they would make 100K a year wranching,,, what a crock of bull,,, it was all to get daddy's money...

I once set on the local tinker teck board,,, my recommendation was to evaluate the student and if he did not have the rite stuff point him a direction were he could make it in the real world,,, their was a service writer for a local dealer that was only interested in a new batch of new guys to use them as slave labor... I walkd out and never went back...

The local tinker teck had one the smartest mechanics I have ever know as a teacher,,, he would fail a student in a hart beat,,, they fired him cuzz he did not allow students to stand around with their thumb up their arse... He was the blame for the low turn out rate,,, He told me each student was worth $1800 a year in government funding so it was talboo to fail one...
He had the highest success rate of students that went into the trade and stayed in it for 2 years

The problem is qualified students,,, its no different than out school systems,,, throw the qualified in with the the un-qualified and you dumm down the qualified...

So for y'all collage grad's,,, you either got it are you were sent pack'n rite.. Until we get some kind of higher school'n at the entry level are some kind of real certification across the board we will have to look for that one in a million top gun...

When I started out 9 hr. days were standard and a haft a day on Saturday,,, you were paid based on a weeks work,,, hours were never talked about... You worked for the company store..

Lets classify a so called mechanic, A, B , C

A) you hand him the work order he completes the job (most any job)with no help.

B ) same as a A but not quite their yet

C) needs directions (show and tell) un-able to complete a complicated task ( you have to point to the oil plug on a oil change) He has a 2 year degree ,,, finger smells like chit...

In most professions you figger to make more each year till you retire (experience),,, not so in the wranching trade,, unless you are a top gun your pay will decline as you age (you hit a wall around 50/55,,, its simple you can not turn out the work you use to... Balls to the wall takes it toll...

You retire and have nuttin to show for it and your tools are worth scrap value... But you can fix yer on chit...
 
I dont know how the ag shops are, I have been in the auto shops since 89. It is not easy to start out but then what is. Sure a guy can go flip burgers or work for walmart and not have any expense, but what kind of future do you have. When I got married for the first 2 years my whole paycheck was going to tools. I put in a lot of hard work and now I have companies calling me all the time. I am currently working for ford and making 55k a year and am still making tool payments. The consumer has put a lot of pressure on businesses to do quality work the first time, so now th businesses dont want to take the time to train new people. Even certifications these days dont mean a person can fix anything. I know people that are ase and dealer certified that have no business working on cars.
 

I have been turning wrenches for 27 years, first 12 in a bakery fleet and the last 15 in construction/ag/industrial equipment. nine years and i was in a ag dealership at $13.50 they filed for bankruptcy and got offers to go elsewhere. The field has been good to me, $27 an hour now, scared to figure my tool investment as 10 years ago it was well over $20,000.

Electronics and computer controlled systems have really changed the industry a lot. The access of some equipment and vehicles makes the job very difficult and hard on your body working in awkward positions. I hired a few mechanics in my fleet days and lost several because the pay was low and the work was hard. My current job as a field service rep for a equipment manufacturer is the best paying job I ever had but also the most stressful. Corporate managers are only interested in the profit, I use to get a thrill from fixing something someone else could not. Now it seems like oh well I fixed it so what. Now days you got to know electrical and mechanical or you won't make it. I never worked flat rate before but had friends that did, a shop's reputation along with other factors really affect a mechanics pay. One thing about the service business there will be a demand for someone to fix things but anymore they are trying to make it a parts changing job by trying to build in self diagnostics. I don't know if I would suggest a young person getting into it or not.
 

A lot of this involves diagnostic software. The software tells the mechanic what part to replace. Really it is going to replace mechanics.
 


Great, and true!

Young people have a sense of entitlement, and many of them are terribly lazy. ...It's no wonder when they have grown up through a drive through window their entire life!

Problem in my situation is I can't find a pro who claims to be a antique Ford tractor mechanic (59 641 Workmaster) Don't get me wrong, I can find people who are willing to work on it, but none claim that they are experts on working on these tractors.
 
Response to #1: Giving a kid an erector set makes him no more fit to become a mechanic than giving a kid a piano will guarantee that he'll be a musician. While I DETEST video games, I can't follow your logic that giving a kid an erector set will set him on a course towards a mechanical career.

#2: Last I heard, golf was a sport--an extracurricular activity, not a classroom activity. But even 40 years ago, when I was in high school, vocational ed was on the back burner. Want to weld? Then you had to enroll in the vocational agriculture program; there was no other option. Or you could sign up for the vocational school in the next county...in which case you spent half the day there, and could only take minimum state graduation-requirement courses. That meant you were automatically excluding yourself from college, and it also left no time for accounting or business courses in the rest of the school day. So you had to choose early, and if you wanted to graduate, there was no turning back.

#3: Kids with aptitudes still have those aptitudes no matter where you steer them. You cannot rob natural abilities from them, unless maybe you cripple them somehow along the way.

#4: Try paying for your house payment, your utilities, and your gasoline with the pride of a job well done...most folks still expect cash. Money sure isn't THE most important thing in this life, but it seems it's a LOOOOONG way ahead of what's in the #2 spot when you've got bills to pay.
 
Response to #1: Giving a kid an erector set makes him no more fit to become a mechanic than giving a kid a piano will guarantee that he'll be a musician. While I DETEST video games, I can't follow your logic that giving a kid an erector set will set him on a course towards a mechanical career.

#2: Last I heard, golf was a sport--an extracurricular activity, not a classroom activity. But even 40 years ago, when I was in high school, vocational ed was on the back burner. Want to weld? Then you had to enroll in the vocational agriculture program; there was no other option. Or you could sign up for the vocational school in the next county...in which case you spent half the day there, and could only take minimum state graduation-requirement courses. That meant you were automatically excluding yourself from college, and it also left no time for accounting or business courses in the rest of the school day. So you had to choose early, and if you wanted to graduate, there was no turning back.

#3: Kids with aptitudes still have those aptitudes no matter where you steer them. You cannot rob natural abilities from them, unless maybe you cripple them somehow along the way.

#4: Try paying for your house payment, your utilities, and your gasoline with the pride of a job well done...most folks still expect cash. Money sure isn't THE most important thing in this life, but it seems it's a LOOOOONG way ahead of what's in the #2 spot when you've got bills to pay.
 
(quoted from post at 21:55:41 12/04/10) I believe there's more truth in this one post than
in most of the others below combined.
Click to expand...
Which one post are you refering to? Your last one got double posted, is that it?
 
OK, look at the numbers. Your tractor is 50 years
old, and if the guys who were working on them when
they were new were in their 20's 50 years ago,
they're in their 70's now. If they were in their
30's or 40's, they're probably long gone.

Then add in the fact that IH and Deere outsold
these by a combined margin of probably 10 to 1,
and the odds of finding an experienced tech on
this one tractor is pretty slim. Then factor in
spreading THOSE few mechanics over just the Lower
48 states, and I think you've answered why you
can't seem to find an expert mechanic on that
particular tractor.
 
Don't get me started--
Ain't enough room or time for me to list all the reasons that I know of,
and that aint' many, and that's from personal experience.

As far as shop rate goes, that's it--SHOP rate, not the guy bustin butt rate
 
Hope my reply wasn't too negative.
And I know first, second, third, fourth, fifth hand info, and maybe more about why the youngun's don't do it, or stay with it.

Couldn't edit my last post, my aplogies, but this is a sore subject for me.
I'd like to say more, but I best not.

And NO, its not cause I was considered a bad wrench, quite the opposite, and its at least half the reason I'm in the shape I' in.
And I always say and believe, its not cause I was that good, as I was claimed to be by others, its cause the rest of them were that bad.
And...
Nope, I'm stoppin'.
Done said too much already. Long Story. Can't spell it out here.
The bad thing, it wasn't just one shop...mulitple owners/managers do the same thing..
Okay, I gotta quit.
Probably get kicked off the forum from what I've said, or definitely for what I would continue to say if I had time to speak of multiple "good" mechanics' experiences, vs. the lame brains. Though reclusive, I keep in touch with a few past and present wrenches. And a mechanic ain't a wrench. A wrench is a different breed....I gotta stop
 
I think in your mind you're thinking a lot worse than what you posted. It's hard to decipher what you wrote. I've had my share of bad experiences. Worst was when I broke my collarbone and couldn't work. The employer was upset because they were busy, so when I went back to work, they tried to cut my pay. I asked to be laid off and the then new plant manager went and punched my time card and said, "we'll right it up you quit". On top of that they wouldn't give me a reference(for 6 years). I worked there for 2 1/2 years, was never late, hardly ever sick and often got picked to do the harder jobs like crawling 15 ft. inside an 18" pipe to an x-ray weld on a fire tube. Inside an 18" pipe isn't a lot of room to move, let alone weld. Everybody in the shop agreed I got shafted.

Why was the employer like this? I broke my collarbone on my motorcycle. The retiring plant manager even asked if I was going to sell it. Another guy broke his collarbone skiing and had no problems when he came back. Other employee's said I should talk to the apprentice board about it and they basically said it's a pretty big company, implying they didn't want to enforce their own requirements. My wage was cut to a 3rd year apprentice wage. The employment laws say a 3rd year has to get a minimum 90% of the journeyman rate. I said, shouldn't that automatically set the journeyman rate? Then the guy waffled and said that's more to protect the apprentices. If that's the case, what's the use getting your ticket? I even had another employee that would testify what the journeyman rate was. The new plant manager also gave another guy 1 day notice of termination after he'd been there 5 years. Only good thing that happened was the new plant manager got demoted and left that company in disgrace. Apparently he was the joke of the shop. 3 month's after that I was in the hospital with encephalitis and couldn't work for about a year. I know losing the job the way I did had a lot to do with getting sick. Dave
 
A friend gets 16.00 a month in food stamps.I spent 18.00 buying a few basic items friday.Bread, frankfurts ,hamburg and a bag of rock salt for icy steps.When food was given out I found 100 pounds of food on the local dump .Case of corn syrup, oatmeal,beans, lentils corn etc.I was raising 2 pigs so they ate well.The dummies that threw the food away could had traded it for something they did know how to cook.When they gave out food at the old school house I saw many new cars loading up.
 
Hobo---great post....I forwarded this to my Brother who is a Snap-On Dealer...

BTW----you could substitute "framing carpenter" for "wranching" and all you said would be about identical...in the 1970"s I was a foreman on a framing crew---all full of P..sss and Vin..gar...

We ran 6 crews building production homes...you framed a 1200 square house in 72 man hours with a 3 man crew---yeah----3 days.....All hand nailed.

Not many wanted to work at that pace.....did that for 14 years, ran my own show, spent some time training in the apprentice program and saw all the washouts at 50-55 years old that nobody wanted to hire because they couldn"t keep up with the new blood...

36 yrs. old and hurt my back bad enough not to want to make any more money off of it for someone else...changed careers...was young enough yet to do so.

Yep--I can still fix/build my own "chit" myself.

Tim
 
(quoted from post at 13:38:47 12/06/10) Hobo---great post....I forwarded this to my Brother who is a Snap-On Dealer...

BTW----you could substitute "framing carpenter" for "wranching" and all you said would be about identical...in the 1970"s I was a foreman on a framing crew---all full of P..sss and Vin..gar...

We ran 6 crews building production homes...you framed a 1200 square house in 72 man hours with a 3 man crew---yeah----3 days.....All hand nailed.

Not many wanted to work at that pace.....did that for 14 years, ran my own show, spent some time training in the apprentice program and saw all the washouts at 50-55 years old that nobody wanted to hire because they couldn"t keep up with the new blood...

36 yrs. old and hurt my back bad enough not to want to make any more money off of it for someone else...changed careers...was young enough yet to do so.

Yep--I can still fix/build my own "chit" myself.

Tim
Click to expand...

I could go on and on about it but hit the high spots,,, thanks..

A friend just told me (I know nuttin about it) that when he got to the point he could make $6 a foot to frame a house (was very happy good money) the Mexicans invaded him (put him out of work) and now do it for around $2,,, he went into remodeling mostly inside work...

Brought some stuff from a local shop yesterday (he specialized in Honda's)
He closed down and went back to work'n at a dealer,,, $21.00 hour...
He said it just like I did,, he could have put up that same post...
That one in a million,,, he works with one he's 26 and he said that guy took on all comers and could fix anything... He's been back at the dealer for 8 mo.,,, theirs 2 that's been their longer than he has,,, he's just now get'n some work that has a little meat left on the bone....

They hire a new guy fresh out of the local tinker teck,,, rite off the bat yanks a cylinder head,,, the engine has low compression on all 4 cylinders,,, did not do a wet test and does not know what a wet test is,,, Y'all guessed it,,, the cylinders were just washed down with fuel... A shop can not stand to eat much of that in- competence...

I can not turn out the work a dealer mechanic can,,, One advantage they have over me is their work starts when the repair order is handed to them,,, it ends when they complete the order,,, Theirs no discussion with the customer about the complaint not after the repair... I have to look the customer in the eye from start to Finnish... If I could lie are wanted to lie you could get me to confess if you talked to me in-dept about the event... I am not good enuff at make'n chit up,,, and most honest folks can not lie with out tell'n on them self's... Think about it....

This gets most dealer wranches in trouble when they go out on their own,,, they soon find out they do not have the ability to walk the walk and talk the talk with customers,,, they soon find out they can not turn out the hours they could at the dealer,,, they soon find out that sweep'n the floor and clean'n the john does not pay well either... They have always had someone at the dealer that did all that fer'em...

Do'n the wrench work and let'n someone else marry the job does have its advantages,,, I tell folks all the time I could make more money work'n for someone else and earn my keep turn'n wranches,,, But I like to keep all the money for myself and do like own'n every thing....
 
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