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Heating a home in the future, aging, and farm history

J

JDemaris

Well-known Member
I've been thinking of possible ways to heat our house and barn into the future. If I live long enough, I suspect petro-products will be 5 - 10 times what they cost today. At some point, if a person lives in areas with severe-cold winters - seems there's going to be a huge heating problem.

We heat 100% with wood here, but that is very labor intentive, and I know it's won't be long before I can't do it myself. I got thinking about this after looking out today and finding 2 feet of snow on our roofs that I'll have to shovel off soon (just the flatter roofs). I also need to bring more wood inside soon.

If people are complaining now with the present prices of heating oil, diesel, and propapne, what about when it goes WAY up. It has to, at some point.

I've thought about building an under-ground house and use it only in the winter. I might do it; we'll see.

I got reading some local newspapers for this town in central New York, from the 1880s. Keep in mind that just about everybody here at that time had a life connected to farming in some way.

In this town, there was an event called "Moving Day" that happened twice a year. When Fall and Spring came, older farmers would trade housing with younger people who live in small houses in the village. So, many young people took over the farms and dealt with heating, feeding and watering animals in the cold, etc. The newspaper published a list of the farmers trading housing with young people in the village. Gave addresses and contact info where to find the old and the young people when things got switched. In fact, my house is listed.

Seems that's something that couldn't fly today.
 
You would still need to heat an underground house. The ground temperature usually stays around 50 degrees F. The energy requirements would be much lower, but still present.

Google passive houses or passive heating. Essentially they are houses that are so well insulated that the body heat of the occupants and their activities (cooking, cleaning, bathing) keep the air temperature comfortable. You do need to have an air/ heat exchanger to bring in fresh air, but they take only a fraction of the energy of a traditional HVAC system.
 
I've thought about how I heat is a few years too. in 20 years or so I may not be able to cut wood. We now heat 90% or so with wood. We have a basement that is a lot easier to heat and cool. If my wife would go along with it I would just live in the basement and shut off the water upstairs.
 
That's a neat idea to switch houses, but I don't know how it would work now. Maybe your boy will be big enough to do the work soon.
Zach
 
One of my clients built an underground/ berm house. He heats with electric, electric hot water, and the usual appliances. Lives very comfortably in N Ohio and has a $38/ month electric bill in a bad month.
 
You could work on super insulating your present structure, a project a year. A lot on here like geothermal, that could be a project if you have the means to build a cave, instead of a cave. You would have to heat the cave the same as a geo system because ground temp is about 55 degrees and you would have to bring it up from there. You could redo your house to make it practical to partition it off down to 600-1000 sq feet for winter.
 
John, I agree with you on where energy costs will go.I think (at present)we need to focus on increasing and improving insulation in both old and new construction as well as expanded use of wind breaks.Have you considered using whole logs as a means of cutting labor? Maybe some way to mechanically feed the whole log into the fire and locating the burner away from the house with the use of heated water as a means of moving the heat to where it is needed without the concern of setting something on fire? OR ?

I once read an article on building a solar collector pond that was filled half way with salt water(in a bag?). Seems like I read where the bottom layer got to over 100 degrees. Maybe it was in Israel where it was developed? Been a long time since I read the article and only vaguely remember parts of it.
 
We've already got the house about as "super-insulated" as possible. With such insulation, comes other problems - especially trapped moisture and ventilation.

A new house using structured-panels works much better and seems to negate much of the moisture-versus-insulation problems. My father-in-law has one. Still takes quite a bit of propane to heat all winter though. He's in northern Michigan.

Geothermal is a money-pit in this area and isn't very cost-effective. Uses a lot of electricity.
Otherwise I'd have it.

Now, if we built an underground house - it automatically HAS passive geothermal heat.
 
Continue a good relationship with your kids! Seriously though, I do realize that many children leave the area they grew up in for employment or family reasons, but my brother and I cut all my parent's firewood. And as long as I am physically able, I think I'll continue. There was a time in my teen years when I hated firewood, but now it is actually enjoyable on a nice day to work with firewood. One big difference is that growing up we had next to nothing to work with for tools, but since both my brother and I now have decent jobs we have top of the line chainsaws and a new wood splitter we bought last year. Makes a world of difference!
 
Well, I really don't like propane and got pretty tired of cutting, hauling, stacking, and splitting wood. I just changed my primary source of heat to burning corn and still have the propane as a backup.

It is easier than wood, but has issues as well. Corn burns better when mixed with pellets. I use about 1.5 bushels of biomass a day here in Wisconsin. This is a viable alternative, but would likely not be if everyone goes for corn in a big way. Growing my own corn, I figured my average cost per day now is about $8 for heat. Costs will always be variable of course---Fuel to till the soil and plant the corn, fertilizer, harvest, transport, and drying costs all vary from year to year as well as the yield. Don't know how this will sork out in the long term, but does work for now.
 
Good plan in theory, but. I have four children in their late 20s to mid-40s. Most living out west in Colorado with their own families. I have one "new" kid that is 7 years old. So, it's going to be a little while before I can get some slave labor out of him. I also have a grand-daughter that often stays here, and she is 3. Not sure I'll get to work her too hard.
 
Well there you go! If you can hang in there another 5 years or so, your son will be 12 years old by then, so from 12-18yrs of age, no worries! It's after he turns 18 you may need a new heating plan.
 
I agree, having the tools of today make it a lot easier to do firewood than it used to be. Another help for me is, I have a regular walkin door next to the woodstove in back of the house, we never use it in the conventional way. I altered the storm door with a framed hole. During the winter I put a clear corrugated roofing covered bin against that door. So now I can open the heavy inside door and the wood's right there. It's also out in the cold so there's no bug problem. When I have the bin full it's enough for the better part of 2 weeks.
 
Sure ---- Heating a home ( In the Future ?) how far in the Future ????

I worked for DOE back in the 80's with Nuclear Energy, and back then --- they developed a furnace to heat one city block of homes with a Nuclear Energy pill as big as an aspirin that would last 20 years or longer, and the cost would be about 5K for the pill,

But -- they knew some one would take that Nuclear Pill out of the furnace and put it in a city water system and kill millions of people, so it was not expected to be developed until they can figure out how to keep the pill where it was put for heating, and that my dear friends will not be for a VERY LONG TIME...

Working with Nuclear Energy has Many fine features other then killing people, but this evil World will not deal with that....

Signed: your Anonymous Yesterdays Tractor friend.
 
We live in an 80-year-old house in SD, where it can get really cold. We invested about $10,000.00 two years ago in a closed-loop ground source geo-thermal system and just love it. The electricity (compare to fuel cost) to run the compressor last month was $1.53 per day and December wasn't a warm month. It keeps us at 73 degrees even when it's 20 below outside. The electric company gives us a reduction in electrical costs in exchange for a managed system. We have never noticed if/when they've switched us off for 15 minutes. It's clean, no work (read wood-cutting) cheap and even heat.
I don't know if there is a tax rebate in effect yet or not.
 
Electric co-op up here has pushed ground source heat pump fed by $.04 off-peak power for YEARS.

There's a number of systems in the area. As long as they can keep an off-peak rate that's well under the standard rate it should continue to be a good deal.

Some large farm shops are even being set up that way.

A nearby implement dealer built a HUGE new dealership/shop and went that way with under-floor heat.
 
We went closed loop geo in November. Traded a $200 a month gas bill for a $40 per month increase in the electric bill. Also keep the house at 70 instead of 65.
 
Interesting thread- and its a much bigger problem than it appears. What about the vast majority of folks who have no alternatives, and become utterly unable to afford the necessities of life? Will they just quietly die? At the risk of politicizing the thread and getting it poofed, I'll just observe that this problem is the "elephant in the closet."

The switching of residences during the winter raises the obvious question, why on earth would the city folk agree to take on the miseries of an upstate New York winter on the farm? Did they get paid? What happened with their regular jobs during that time? It seems very strange.
 
Earth home faced the correct way and the roof such that is maxes out the heat from the sun in the weather but not in the summer. Also things like mass to help hold heat over a longer period of time. An earth home done right can be almost energy free and what is needed can be done very simple with a wood stove, but cost to build one the correct way and have it facing south just right etc can be hard to do
 
I like the Moving Day idea. The problem is that, in these days, there aren"t too many young people in the vilages (cities) who would want to tend a farm any time of the year. This is generalizing, but if winter farm chores are more work than playing X-Box and texting, younger folks wouldn"t touch it.

How about an exchange system between Northern (American) farmers and people in Brazil, Argentina, and Australia? When it"s winter here, it"s nice there. Frozen farmers in the North could escape from the heating bills and dormant life and fly to the Southern hemisphere and continue farming in the nicer climate. They could live on farms of wealthy "Southern" farmers who would love to take some time off and spend a winter in the USA, essentially an exchange system.
 
John, my mother has a terra dome home,basically three concrete domes 30x30 with two additions of 10x30. one 10x30 area is storage off the dome which is the large two car garage. She has for living areas roughly 2000 square feet. the entire structure was coated with foam insulation and then covered with five feet of dirt.Which was done with a TD20C and Ford Bi-Directional.The house was heated with a small wood stove 14"X18" firebox only filled twice daily until her husband died five years ago. She is almost 94 with severe arthritis and can no longer take care of a fire. She now uses her electric heat at a cost of less the 140 per month {8 cents oer Kw ) for a comfortable 74 degrees. Fifteen years ago they were in California for Jan and Feb. with no heat the house never got under 45 degrees. Our nite time temps for jan and fed are usually below Zero. The house required about 350 yards of concrete and 10 ton steel. House was built in 1990 and so far required less than 1000 in maintenance
 
I'v long thought that the BS environmental policies that are so heavy in today's media are pale in comparison to what we are going to face for energy crisis in the (not so distant) future.
Putting emissions controls on new diesel pickups to make them "clean" while grossly increasing fuel consumption is one of the STOOPIDEST things I've ever heard of.

I spend alot of time "scheming" on better, cheaper ways to heat buildings. Certainly haven't found the silver bullet. Seems like with the poor management of the forests here in the west, Biomass is a viable solution, but as you say, very labor intensive. I have visions of Hog fuel/wood chips delivered into a bulk bin and auger fed into a boiler/furnace.
Good insulation and draught control HAS to be a major consideration NOW. As the price of it will likely follow the cost of energy.

Ben
 
I decided not to worry about it,if i get to the point i can't cut wood for the wood stove anymore i hire a local kid to do it for me or i'll buy it delevered and stacked.

What realy scares me would be losing ones drivers licence,then i guy is realy ff'd.I live 30 mls from town and the nearest neighbor is 5 mls away.
I for one absolutely don't want to live in town period,i rather fire the .22 one more time.
 
John, I know you're off the grid, so this idea won't work for you.

We have an old widow relative who has a very well insulated older home with electric baseboard heat, and she has shown me her electric bills. I'm amazed that they are only about $40 higher than mine, and I heat our house and hot water with wood. I do some occasional welding, but only small repairs, and not often, and I've got stock tank heaters and two deepfreezes, so that is a factor. She keeps her living room/kitchen so hot I can barely breath, but the heat is off in the rest of the house. Her house was one of those all electric "Medallion??" homes that was promoted by the electric co-op in the early sixties. At the time it was built, they installed two meters on it, one behind the other, to show how much electricity is used for heating. In return for being a guinea pig, they got special rates for a number of years.

People always badmouth electric baseboard heat, and I lean to believe them, but I see people installing it, and when I talk to them about it, they are pleased with it.

That's my feeble years/widowed wife plan. Every time I do anything to this old house, I'm gonna install electric baseboard heat for future desperation.

Meanwhile - you'll hear a chainsaw runnin around here a lot.

Paul
 
One of the shows on the rfd channel had a neat idea on it.fellow had built a huge shop and installed solar heating in it.just basically a black glass covered copper panel that blew air across with a small fan.had it on the south side and claimed it made a lot of heat.We sold something similar to heat with several years ago and it was surprising how much heat they made during the day even in the dead of winter.Very simple with only a small fan and a thermostat to shut it down if air temp got below 60 degrees or so.Saved a lot of money back in the eighties heating our office.if you think about it,even heating your house up to 60 when temps outside are 20-30-40 is a huge savings.I think a lot of the reluctance in going with solar stuff is it just looks like crap on your roof.
 
Sounds like your location is typical of a cold and cloudy Central NY climate. More solar panels would not give much improvement and the geothermal has its high electrical cost.

I have both systems but my Connecticut kwh cost is 2nd highest in nation. At extreme temps, geo is not so efficient, unless your house is real small.

So after a 11 year hiatus, I'm back burning wood with a high efficiency woodstove. Not so much for cost saving, but in case society spirals out of control.

Like you, my wood hauling days are numbered. Maybe another 10-15 yrs, if lucky., more if necessary.

But energy cost is not the main challenge. With the possible collapse of industrial society in our lifetime, we need to relearn skills in food gathering and storage.

If the transportation system shuts down for an extended period, what would most people do ? Loot, steal, then starve. Generators ? They'd run out of fuel too. You need wood.....always. Try to stay in shape, keep several year supply of cordwood. Guard it with your life. And have a well stocked root cellar.

A few cases of home brew wouldn't hurt either. Good luck.
 
A guy neer here has a house under ground.The house is built into a hill and has six foot of concrete overhanging the south of the house.Main source of heat is from the sun through the windows(south is the only windows).On top of the house is 6+ ft of dirt.All concrete well insulated,20 ft deep and 60 something long.He has a small amount of wood he heats with in winter,The over hang alows less direct sun in in the summer so house has no need of AC.Good high quality windows will keep out alot of cold and let in alot of heat.Front of house is 10 ft wall so the roof is sloped into the hill at 1ft on 10ft.I am planning on building something like it and useing small square bales of straw as insulation with concrete inside and out.once concrete is warmed up it holds heat for a long time so as the sun heats in the day hopefully it gives off heat at night.
just one more of the million ideas out there to save money.
 
I guess you heat it with solar electricity, generated by the solar panels made by "green jobs" workers at this govt grant funded factory in Massachussetts. What's that? It's gone under? Well, at least they still have factories in China and Michigan.
Green jobs
 
When we built new(for the second time!) almost 20 years ago(I can't believe that either) we wanted to go underground. But being limited for money, we compromised. Our house(some would call it a basement) is one story with three sides covered with dirt. It is built into a hill side, long and narrow, with all rooms(except for bath and utility) having one large, almost walk through window, on the open wall. Unfortunately our location didn't allow us to face it strategically. We keep it 75 deg.F. When the wife is cooking the furnace doesn't run. For how cold some can put up with, I have said you could heat it with candles.
The surprise was, without a basement for the large chest freezer, that's now in the large kitchen, along with the refrigerator. With no cross-ventilation we had to install a room AC in the kitchen to keep it from getting VERY hot.
We dry corn with propane- (1000 gal. tank.) When I'm done in the fall I have the tank topped off. It heats the shop, the house, the water ,and runs the stove all winter. We have never run out. I am pleased with that performance.
 
I know of a guy who had a house like you described, built into the side of a hill, south facing window. Only problem was he had moisture issues. I would advise using poured walls, insulate the outside and inside walls, and provide good drainage. You may still have to air condition to keep the moisture levels down. Your house may smell like a musty basement.
 
Older fellow here has a chip burner. His neighbour has a chipper with a grapple.

They drag the wood to near the storage room over the summer, in the fall the guy comes up and chips it blowing it all into the room. Chipping take 4 hours.

His furnace is supposed to loaded with a skidsteer or tractor bucket but he uses a snow shovel.

Uninsulated building burns 13 cord a winter. Refills the hopper every few days.

I sure like that idea, would be ever better if the storage was augered into the furnace hopper.
 
In the old days they used to shrink the house by closing doors and only heating one room to comfortable temps. Beds had piles of blankets and people wore woolen union suits under woolen clothing. Today we want our whole house nice and warm.
I think rising petro prices will drive new initiatives in electric power generation especially nuclear. Small scale self contained nuclear plants like those on subs or aircraft carriers will be installed in secure bunkers in towns and cities. When it's fuel is depleted it will be swapped out for a new or refueled unit.
 
Yeah, I know geothermal is of little use where I live. At least not "active" geothermal that uses a lot of electricity. I looked into geothermal at both my houses - here in NY and also in norhtern Michigan. Electric rates very high and no special deals like low-cost night-rate power.

To be techincal, an underground house is also making use of geothermal, just happens to be "passive" instead of "active."

Sun is very poor here also. I've got 5400 watts of solar panels which gives us a slight surplus of power every year - but we're not big electric users. 3600 KWH a year maybe.

My post wasn't really intended to be just about me. Heck, nobody forced me to live in this place. When I was younger, I saw it as a challenge and sort-of fun. Now, I'm starting to dread some aspects of winter.

My post was more a general one about anybody in very cold areas and what might happen in the future. The funny thing is . . there is an inverse relationship with old fashioned "farm life" and the population around here. When families and communites had a common interest in farmimg, and shared labor, and had large families, populations were fairly low. Now? People moving to this area in droves from urban areas. All the newer homes heated with propane or heating oil (no natural gas here). I'm wondering what, if anything, people are thinking if they look into the future? Maybe if fuel goes up by 10X, they expect 10X pay increases? Or some sort of government fix?

My problem is - I've never had a "not me worry" approach to anything. I'm always thinking ahead and that can drive a person nuts at times.
 
First house I bought here in 1979 was exactly like that. Big, 1850s center-hall Colonial farmhouse. The entire upstairs was closed off every winter. That used to be very common around here.
 
Kind of OT, but still applies. Not so much about heating a home, but someone ahead of his time.

Clear back in 1936, in Alexandria, NE a gentleman named Dick Dill built a house out of concrete. It has very thick walls and to my understanding uses straw for insulation. I have been told it is extremely easy to heat. Rodents aren't a problem. They can't chew through concrete.

At the time I guess a lot of people thought he was crazy. Uh-Huh, like a fox. DOUG
 
About ten years ago I picked up some free old magazines from the Friend Shop bookstore at the local library. Someone had donated them and they were passing them along.

The magazine title was New Shelter, with the magazine being published by Rodale Press at the time of issue.

In one issue it told of an upstate New York builder that built homes without furnaces in them as there was no need for one. Instead he reallocated the furnace money to tighter building techniques and much more insulation. I tend to remember that he used R-50 in the sidewalls and R-90 in the attic.

At the moment I can't think what the heat is called, but the homes being built were heated only from the heat from baths, showers, water heater, refrigerator, lamps, range, body heat, etc. The homes were so energy efficient that was all that was needed.

If this can be done in upstate New York where it gets really cold why can't AND ISN'T it done everywhere where there is heating or cooling needs?

I'm sure that air to air heat recovery ventilators would be a must to prevent too much humidity and for fresh air.

IF I ever build a new home or retrofit an old one it will definitely be super-insulated.

I also desire remote compressors for refrigerator and freezer with the heat being used to heat the domestic hot water supply, aided by solar.

"Zero energy homes" is what one should aim for. That is a good search term to use to read about such for starters.

I sure wish Rodale Press would start publication of New Shelter again. I think it may be needed more now than back in the 1980s.
 
I don't know if this is the same one, but. A shop-teacher in our school read a Rodale article years ago - sometime around 1980. Then he bought the plans. All about such a house. So, he built it. Super-insulated and used a thermal-storage system. This required a lot of sand and water buried underground. Then you heat it all summer with solar-collectors. Come winter, you live off of all that stored heat from underground. He spent a fortune on the project. All new construction. Got all done and it didn't work. He could not get the house warmer then 45-50 F in the dead of winter. He later installed an oil hot-water baseboard system and sold the house.

Now, that story obviously doesn't prove a thing except his project did not work. I suspect those Rodale plans did not take into account our lousy cold weather and lack of sun.

I still read Mother Earth. Still sort of an "old Hippy" magazine, but some stuff of interest.
 
Think coal.

You are fortunate to live near the anthracite mines in northeastern PA. A 22 ton dump trailer load might last you 5 years. Get 100 tons and you will have fuel security for the rest of your life. Coal doesn't care where it is stored. Modern stoker stoves are automatic. There is no smoke from anthracite and no chimney fires. Just agitate the grate several times a day and remove the ash when refueling every couple of days.

You should also be hoarding Diesel fuel for your tractors and vehicles. I collected 5000 gallons several years ago from home owners switching to natural gas. My cost was less than $1.00 per gallon. I have a lifetime supply. All my leads came from Craigslist.

Both of these initiatives are easier and cheaper than building a new house. If you don't like either fuel option down the road, both can be sold for double or triple your cost. Heck, you could even go into business now if you want but your fuel security will be gone.

Click below for a forum on domestic heating with coal.
Click me
 
This is a great thread but.....

You are forgetting a main concern with today's society. The price of Fuel oil/propain/natural gas is only going to go up to the price of what people will be able to pay. IE: do you think all the people in the inner cities and suburbs will be able to pay 2 or 3 times the amount of the current bill. H3ll no....that is why the price cant go up cause all those folks would scream bloody murd3r and the government will make the companies roll the prices back or......subsidize it.

Alternative heat is a great way to lower the bill. But I see in the not to distant future electric heat used more due to homes in the cities not having chimneys or fireplaces.
Basically a 220vac heater that runs on 4000 watts, I have seen these but not widespread.
I think Propain has to be $3/gallon for it to be the same price as electric.

Bio-mass stoves will be more common, maybe stoves will start burning chicken bones, eggshells and all those pesky cardboard boxes.
 
Passive Solar Heating, like you described camju, is free and incredibly efficient when properly designed...and when coupled with a thermal mass (such as masonry and earth - think caves) to take advantage of thermal lag, and a properly sited building (depending on the local micro climate and topology) you can heat and cool a significant part of the year without any real supplemental energy usage. In the winter, the sun heats an interior thermal mass during the day via southern exposure, the mass then releases heat throughout the cool down stage during the night, maintaining a relatively steady temperature, when the sun comes back up, it just repeats. In the summer, the mass acts as a heat sink during the day, absorbing heat from the heated interior air, and releasing that heat during the night. Doesn't work in every climate, but Passive solar heating coupled with ventilate cooling, in a temperate climate similar to many of the upper United States, is a tried and true method that was discarded with the advent of cheap fossil fuel but remains a viable option for as far as I can see.

We should work with nature...not against it... living spaces on the leeward side - glazing along southern exposures with deep overhangs to mediate solar gain throughout the seasons, proper siting with cross ventilation contiguous with the prevailing breezes...Hopefully one day I can build my own place to try and synthesize all the interesting ideas that are out there.

-Jameson
 
The modern wrinkle on that is called "passive house", from the German prototype. A major problem with using occupant heating is that the house must be considerably smaller than US standards. The Germans figure max 500 sq ft/occupant. Works great on that level. With US sizes, more heat's required.
Passive House
 
A better approach is Passive Annual Heat Storage (PAHS). You store excess summer heat for winter use. Requires a very large mass for this heating/cooling system. I built mine almost 20 yrs ago, works as advertised. No overhangs are necessary, will not overheat in summer. No AC needed here in Virginia.

I've worked on the design of many, currently for southern France, South Carolina, and central Mexico. The annual heat storage is treated like any heating or cooling system, sized according to the house heat loss/gain. But there are no moving parts, no pumps, no motors, nothing to maintain. It just sits there.

Slight variations are needed according to whether it's primarily a heating or cooling climate, and how severe. The first PAHS was in Missoula, Montana where the originator managed an annual indoor temperature swing of only 7º, without his doing anything. They hover near 70º. Doesn't take much to change that, according to your need.

6' of overhead dirt gets rather expensive to support. I've found that our high mass houses can be built for less than conventional stick houses. Usually no need for a furnace or AC. For a mortgage, adding a tiny air source heat pump is the best bet. You don't have to use it, but it makes the appraiser happy. Also functions for dehumidifying in humid climates.
 
Looking at a grid tie wind turbine here. With a open loop ground source heat pump.
Need heat and cooling in summer for the pool and house.High efficiency air tight forced air wood fireplace will stay for backup.
There is a lot to be said for reducing the amount of heating and cooling required. By stopping air leakage and heat conduction. Rather than using large high efficiency heating and cooling systems.
 
cousins house in england was built over cow barn, heat from cows helped warm house at least that was the idea, never saw it in practice cows are long gone.
 
The cheapest energy source is no energy at all. It took the relatively high energy prices of the 70's to convince homeowners to insulate. We should be able to build houses that have far less energy loss today. The technology exists, but as long as fuel is cheap (and it IS cheap), there's no motivation to build more efficient homes.
 
At 60 yrs of age , yes jd , I've given it a lot of thought. And I live in woods and have plenty of wood for heat , just not plenty of body and energy to harvest it for the next 20 yrs. Here's my plan... outdoor stove fueled with coal AND a retractable "greenhouse" to pull over in the winter (cent. MI ) Have any of you ever walked into an unheated greenhouse in the middle of winter on a sunny day ? Keeps the wind out and the heat in and collects the solar heat all at the same time and is cheaper than any of the other choices. Now , granted , I live in the woods in a ranch style home and I don't care what it "looks" like in the winter. We're talking about times when survival means more than vanity. On a sunny day in Jan. I won't need any heat from fuel. Cold is bad but WIND is the killer. I will have NO wind. Yea I'm cheap , but isn't it really NET gain that counts here? If you got to spend 2-300,000 to be energy effecient , then you aren't.. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
 
We've got lots of heat pumps here in Southern Illinois. Seems they work good down to about 40 degrees, then the operating costs go straight up. I have a neighbor who has a heat pump, and his electric bill is higher than another neighbor with baseboard electric heat.

My brother lives in Northern Ohio, and he sez they are a joke up there.

Note, I'm NOT talking about geotherm.

Paul
 
Usually the main problem with any kind of an "unconventional" house, including relatively normal houses with "unconventional" heating systems (except solar now) is financing...
Lenders are almost always spooky about whether they can resell an unusual place if they have to take it back for any reason.
 
If I couldn't cut firewood anymore, I think I would loose the will to live so I'm not even going to plan for that one :)
 
Some times Gun Guru you write some things that are way out there but you have a real good point here. We have to remember that these are all commodities and consumers back in the 1880's most likely were paying alot more for energy then we are now. We heat with wood and cook 90% of our meals in the winter on the wood stove. Have some solar to power livestock water pumps and fence chargers but high priced.
 
Another issue is what happens if a person decides to build totally new - e.g. a new "super-insulated house." The taxes go up so much, it's hardly worth the effort. At least in New York and Michigan.

I much prefer buying and old house with low taxes, and rehabing it. And and underground house is often considered a sub-standard structure and taxed very little.

We bought an old farm-house and land in northern Michgigan last year on foreclosure for $32,000. It had been trashed - which was exactly what I wanted. When foreclosed it had a 100K mortgage against it. The local assessor put a value of $85K on it and I took it to court - via the Michigan Tax Tribunal. I won, and it is now assessed at $14,000. Now I can fix it up and it has some tax-caps on it, for as long as I own it.
 
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