head gasket with gasket dressing?

Hey folks,

Shortly after I bought my tractor 6 or 7 years ago, I replaced the headgasket because it was broke between a cylinder and the water jacket. I used no sealer or dressing)
Everything was fine. FF and a main bearing siezed last year. Local guy fixed it and since he checked the rest of the thing out, he replaced the head gasket again. He sprayed both sides of the gasket and the surface of the fead and block with a copper looking stuff. It smoked pretty good and used plenty of oil the 1st few weeks but got OK. Lately I have been going thru quite a bit of coolant. No milk or foam in motor or radiator and I pulled the oil plug and there was no coolant. There is also a messy seep around 1/4 of the head or more. Could the stuff he sprayed on be the problem? Thought HG's were supposed to be replaced dry. Think retorquing would take care of it or is it best just to clean everything up and put on a new gasket dry?

1.8 liter 3cyl diesel motor.

Thanks, Dave

Different gaskets are installed in different fashion.

That being said I'd have nothing against the use of some spray coppercoat.

If it's blown now re-torquing probably won't help.

If it needed a re-torque it should have been done after one good heat cool cycle.

This ain't rocket science.

If you (or someone else) can't get it right the first time keep trying till you figure it out.

If that includes complete tear down and re assembly again accept it for what it is. Suck it up and move on.

You can go back over the process time and time again using the 20 different variables you will receive here, but in the end good mechanical practices will prevail.

Understand you are not working with the original materials. The gasket will not be heavy asbestos, and if you choose gasket shellac as a sealer it may be hard to find, and real crap anyway.

Take it apart, have the surfaces surfaced put in a new gasket with whatever process you feel comfortable with and re-torque it after a heat cool cycle.

DO NOT

DO NOT try to make this a lawsuit in this or any other court.

If you didn't like the mechanic do it yourself, or find another. But chances are if you find another, and run him crazy over what-ifs and why-for's you will do it again, again, again.

I think you should plan on replacing the head gasket. You might try retorqing the head again but I think you would be extremely lucky if that solved your problem. I doubt that the copper coat caused the problem. I have found that once a head gasket starts leaking, it"s best to replace them.

Simple answer is heck NO. If the stuff looked like copper then it was most likely close to what we have here in the U.S. called copper coat and is made for head gaskets. It being a copper spray helps the gasket dissipate heat more evenly to the block and head so as to lessen he chance of having a problem. Now as to what your problem is now well you probably blew the head gasket again and some tractor and cars do it more often then others do. Or you have a problem with a warped head or block or even a cracked head

I use the copper coat on every head gasket and exhaust gasket I put on and have never lost one yet. You may not have a flat surface on the block or head which should be checked. Also a lot of engines should have the head retorqued after a few hours of running and after it has been warmed up good. I use Felpro or Vicotor gaskets also.

You should NOT put anything on a head gasket of a diesel engine.Way back in the 1970s,maybe,but you are not supposed to put anything on the newer kind of head gaskets.

This argument comes up a lot,and Ive wrenched enough to know better.That copper stuff might work good for a water pump gasket or something,but you need to keep that crap off of a headgasket.

The best thing you can do on a diesel engine is have it as clean as you can get it both the block surface and the head surface.Even if you have these resurfaced,it can cause a head gasket to blow if they dont finish it rough enough.It has to be a certain texture or too smooth and it will blow it out.Once you get it clean,and a new head gasket,put it oun without anything torque it down in steps or how it says to do it,Recheck all of the torques in the same pattern,run it up to operating temperature and if it is still alright,retorque the head bolts after it cools off.You will be surprised at how many will be loose.

I have not ever had very many head gaskets blow on lots of engines that I worked on.Over 100 engines mostly diesels.

That copper stuff will catch on fire and burn up and might start it burning enough to burn out the gasket.Im not a scientist,so I dont know what happens for sure,I just know that it looks like it burns it up.I guess combustion temperature and the extra burning stuff can make it blow out.

A lot of stuff that people do is like that.Somebody will say put sealer on a head gasket,and do it over and over,and in a short time,maybe a year or 2,it will burn out,and the customer will call and of course the guarantee will be over with,and they will take it some place else.

A bad mechanic can break a businessman if he is learning on the businessmans dime.

On the other hand,being a mechanic,stuff like that is job security.

It is really a mistake,or a bad habit.Its not necessary on new style gaskets to use any sealer.

If you had to seal the top of a diesel engine which was due to erosion.Not bad erosion on a diesel engine can be fixed by spraying silver paint on the block and top of the gasket and putting the gasket on while the paint is wet and torque it down.Something about silver paint is not as flammable as that gasket stuff and it will burn a little,but it will probably seal and stay in there.Ive done that a couple of times and it worked.

Dave .Have seen this problem on older cars/trucks. even seen em use duo head gaskets to take up warpage of the head-block. Copper coat has been around a long time (not sure if it's still in use) but would look at the head closely. If a hair line crack isn't visible to the eye, then when the head gets warmed from engine running,water temp rises then it (cracks) expand and leaks show up.I would get the head checked out for warpage or cracks LONG BEFORE INSTALLING A NEW GASKET to make sure it won't have a repeat performance.I know magnafluxing use to be expensive to have done but it is a sure fire way to determine cracks. Engines and tractors are way to expensive to ignore problems and do a quick fix on em. JMHO.
Let me know what you find and if we can help in any way ,you have my E.Mail address. Warmest Regards .LOU& VICTOR.

Second that on the retorque. Some engines recommend after so many hours of running.
Use the pattern that is in the service manual and take your time.
Always use new head bolts also, if they are available. There is no way to get accurate torque numbers on used head bolts as they have been stretched and are no longer within spec.

I see we have the same argument going again for this copper coat crap!
If a head or block is damaged some way,copper coat is Not going to fix it.If its cracked copper coat wont fix it.If its warped,copper coat wont fix it.Copper coat is used to hold a gasket in place while you fit another piece up.It also doesnt stick so bad that you cant still move it a little to get the bolts in.
I dont know whos idea it was to put the copper in it,but a few rare times I have used it on something that was boogered up and it sealed it.Silicone works way better in my opinion.Once they came out with high heat silicone I quit using copper coat.I still have some,but I only very rarely use it.
If you wanted to seal up something that was boogered up,and you didnt have any money or something,you might get you a tube of high heat silicone and put it on the boogered up place real thin and get by for a while.Copper coat is not going to work for that probably.

Lots of the stuff I ever saw with a Blown headgasket had a loose or head popped off of a headbolt.A few times I saw some engines that had been rebuilt numerous times and the headbolts were wore out..You might want to see if the head bolts bottom out before they get tight.But It is real doubt full that you would ever fix a head gasket leaking with copper coat.You will stand just as good of a chance that it will leak because of using it.So copper coat wont fix you stretched out head bolt,which is something I forgot about until I wrote this.It wont fix your loose headbolt or broken head bolt.It wont fix pulled threads,or bolts torqued wrong.
Of all the stuff I ever had to do over again,I had very few head gaskets,and a few engines that I worked on ran far enough to where I rebuilt them again.
The place I worked at was a good shop where you could take stuff everybody else tried to fix,and get it fixed right.They sent us to schools and the boss was out there working with us in the shop.
If you think about it,it makes sense.If you bolt something together without any sealer on it,then its more likely not to move.If you put a bunch of silicon on a valve cover gasket and overtighten it,the gasket will shoot right out.
There is no telling what I would try to fix something.I even put silicone on a head gasket one time and it didnt work.Im saying leave the copper coat off of the head gasket,especially on a diesel.

Now maybe,under the right circumstances,with an old gasket,you might want to put shellac on it.If everything is clean and straight and you have a new style gasket,you should not use any sealer.

I'm with you. I've used spray on Copper Coat on every head gasket for years and have never had one come back.

Also, even if the gasket manufacturer says the head gasket doesn't need retorquing after a warm up/cool off cycle, I still do it for insurance.

I pulled my boots on till the uppers were stretched some, I will wade in.
Gasket companies often indicate on the gasket, or packaging, whether to use a sealant or not. If it says use no sealant. don"t.
If it says use a sealant, Do. Copper coat is just fine.
If it says nothing I use a cover coat on both sides, let it tack up for 10 min (where it is warm) then assemble. Old engines usually get retorqued after being warm new engines with yield bolts often do not. Jim
Warped cracked or corroded surfaces do not seal.
A light cleanup cut of the head surface if it is more than .002" out of flat (or a specification if in the book), and a make sure check of the deck (block top) is a good idea.
If coolant is going away, and it is not in the oil, and not on the ground, it is probably going into the combustion chamber.
Jim

Old, you speak so much truth with just a few words. Jim

The only time you ever use sealant on a head gasket is if it is an old kind that calls for shellac.
You all can say what ever you want to, but nobody ever told you,that knew what he was talking about,to put copper coat on a head gasket.That is a mistake.If it doesnt call for sealer,dont use any.also even if you do need to put sealant on a head gasket,and that would be so low of a chance I would doubt you could find a gasket that old,you dont put any sealant where the fire ring is around the top of the cylinder either.

Now you dont have to go to any school to learn that piece of information,I gave it to you free.
Anybody that doesnt believe me ask somebody who is knowlegable about building engines.Ask a good parts man.Call up an engine maker and ask them.They will tell you that the coating will make it leak probably.Especially since they quit making gaskets out of asbestos.

Have to agree with Jim & Old on this one. Have built many highperformance engines in my life and when they cam out with spray copper coat it sure solved lots of problems. To this day can,t say I have had a failure due to the use of copper coat. I do know new gaskets have improved from what we had 30 years ago and tolorances are difffrent on newer engines but a light coat went on the head I put on a 4 cyl diesel today.

First thing, retorque the head bolts and see if the problems go away. This may also give you a handle of how good a job the guy did torqueing the head.
To use sealer or not depends on what the gasket maker says. It may help fix a less than perfect fit between parts if not done to excess.

Chucker, can't you make a SINGLE post without revealing what a dumbazz you are???

years ago I used Aluminum spray paint....