Heating.electric vs oil/gas.....

Anonymous-0 · Feb 1, 2011

with fuel oil prices rising (right at $4 gallon now), I'm brain storming.

Heating is hot water, the boiler takes care the heat and about a 35gal water tank for showers and sinks (washer and dishwasher heat their own water).

using between 3 gallons ($12) of fuel oil a day. Boiler is 20+ years old and a new one costs $5k+ . Was thinking to just get an electric 30gal or so water heater and hook it up with a circulation pump for the heat but am pulling out my hair trying to figure out how much power it will use for comparison. Have an on demand heater for shower, tub, and sinks that I hook up when it's not heating season and shut the boiler off. Can someone help me figure the monkey math for a close estimate?

As an example,
water heater would be 230 volt and max. 2000 watt.

Thanks,

Dave

Russ from MN · Feb 1, 2011

There are formulas available on the web where you
can put in your fuel costs and efficiency and it
will give you comparison, don't know where right
now, but if you search, it's there.

IH2444 · Feb 1, 2011

Will 2,000 watts provide enough heat?

You will need to convert watts to BTU. I forget the formula right now but that only seems to be about 8,000 BTU or so, not much to heat a house.

IH2444 · Feb 1, 2011

A new high efficiency boiler would save lots on oil.
You really need to work the numbers.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 22:14:06 02/01/11) Will 2,000 watts provide enough heat?

You will need to convert watts to BTU. I forget the formula right now but that only seems to be about 8,000 BTU or so, not much to heat a house.

Just heats the water that will circulate thru the radiators. Will 2000 watts heat the water fast enough? I better do some more headscratching I guess.

Dave

Anonymous-0 · Feb 1, 2011

(quoted from post at 22:21:19 02/01/11) A new high efficiency boiler would save lots on oil.
You really need to work the numbers.

You're right, no shortcuts in this case I guess.

Dave

MarkB_MI · Feb 2, 2011

#2 Diesel has a heat value of around 140,000 Btus/gallon. At $3/gallon, that's 47,000 Btus/$.

One Btu is .00039 kilowatt-hours. So that's 18.3 kw-hrs/$. Or 5.4 cents per kilowatt-hour. All you have to do is check your electric bill to see what you're paying for power to get your answer.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 2, 2011

(quoted from post at 05:16:01 02/02/11) #2 Diesel has a heat value of around 140,000 Btus/gallon. At $3/gallon, that's 47,000 Btus/$.

One Btu is .00039 kilowatt-hours. So that's 18.3 kw-hrs/$. Or 5.4 cents per kilowatt-hour. All you have to do is check your electric bill to see what you're paying for power to get your answer.

As Elvis would say..Thank Ya..Thank Ya very much..........

That was a short lived idea :roll:

Aaron SEIA · Feb 2, 2011

Here is the calculator that I use.
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

Just need to know the cost of each fuel and the efficiency of each unit.
AaronSEIA

400Dtractorman · Feb 2, 2011

I've had both oil forced air and heat pump with elec back up and heat pump with oil back up. As long as it stays above 32 heat pump works great and cost is good. The cost of elec is around 200 month. IF it gets below 32 oil furn cost about 25.00 a day. I'm in maryland so it might be different if your in a colder state.

Bob · Feb 2, 2011

2000 Watts X 3.41 = 6820 BTU's.

The electric hydronic heating boiler in my house is 20KW. It's having some electrical issues at the moment is is only running at 10KW, yet it keeps up, even last night at -20ºF, so long as there isn't a lot of wind. Parts are here, I'd better get 'em installed!

buickanddeere · Feb 2, 2011

What is the price per KW hr of electricity? What is the effciency of the oil boiler?

Particularly with "off peak" electrical.
Electricty can be the cheapest heat on the market. No chimmney, no flame inside the house, no oil tank, no leaks, no smell, minimal service/maintaince and no high up front initial cost.
Takes i btu to heat one poind of water one degree F.
Oil is somewhere around 120,000 btu per US gallon with at 20% loss out the stack if the boil is 80% efficient.
Electricty has 3410 btu per KW.

buickanddeere · Feb 2, 2011

Somewhere I came up with different numbers? Figuring $4 a gallon, 80% boiler efficiency and 138,000 btu per gallon gross.
Approx break even on energy input costs only. Oil vs. electrical is 12.5 cents per KW hr.
Of course fixed costs such as a new boiler, installation, inspection etc. Unless electricity was 20 cents a KW and oil stayed at $4. The new boiler, chimney and tank would be ready for repalcement again. Before overall heating costs broke even.

MarkB_MI · Feb 2, 2011

B&D, I made three mistakes:

1. $3/gallon fuel oil instead of $4/gal. (I just bought 150 gallons at 3 bucks a gallon last week.)

2. I used the wrong conversion factor between Btus and kw-hrs. (I read the wrong line from my conversion factor book. I don't don't do this conversion every day like you probably do.)

3. I didn't bother adjusting for efficiency.

It turns out all of my mistakes were in the same direction.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 3, 2011

Thanks! Electricity here is about .21 euro (+/- depending on use and time of use). Electric would free up a chimney and space in my workshop (make room for more junk). But I don't want to pay more than we were/are for oil. Can buy a 21KW electric boiler for about 1/6th of the price of an oil one. Guess I need to do some reading and more asking. They only have a 5 gallon water capacity so seems (in my little brain) that they'd be running constantly (???).

Thanks for the help.

Dave

Leroy · Feb 3, 2011

No way would I ever have electric heat or even a electric cookstove. Was in the path of the ice here in northwest Ohio and after the weather was over yesterday morning at 7:03 the power went out and was out untill 6:43 last evening,at least with gas I could have heat and cook. 6 year ago in Jan of 05 was in the big ice storm and no power for 7 days. After that time Father in law bought a small generator but never used it, after he passed last may I got the generator and when I finally got it up and running last night about 5:00 I had light and started a refrigerator running. In 2005 no generator and lost over a thousand dollars of food in the freezors. I am going to have heat that does not depend on a power line going down and yesterday when the power went off there was no ice on the lines, only on the ground and no wind. Price does not equate to staying alive.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 3, 2011

Electricity is nostly underground here in my area. Can remember the power flashing a couple times in 21 years. Remember growing up in a house with all electric and no fireplace. Comeman lanterns and a kerosun heater was always full and ready.

Dave

MarkB_MI · Feb 4, 2011

.21 euros/kw-hr! Ouch! We don't know how good we have it over here.

buickanddeere · Feb 4, 2011

(quoted from post at 06:44:56 02/04/11) .21 euros/kw-hr! Ouch! We don't know how good we have it over here.

Looks like the oil boiler is the winner in this application during fall, winter and spring. Roughly a 1/3 the price of electricity.
Rather than a full scale offcial boiler. How about an ordianry 60 gallon oil fired water heater? Much cheaper than a boiler, more compact and at least as efficient as a boiler.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 4, 2011

(quoted from post at 06:04:47 02/04/11)

(quoted from post at 06:44:56 02/04/11) .21 euros/kw-hr! Ouch! We don't know how good we have it over here.

Click to expand...

Looks like the oil boiler is the winner in this application during fall, winter and spring. Roughly a 1/3 the price of electricity.
Rather than a full scale offcial boiler. How about an ordianry 60 gallon oil fired water heater? Much cheaper than a boiler, more compact and at least as efficient as a boiler.

Thanks!

New heater isn't really in sight. just thought if I could get by cheaper with electric, I'd switch. Will maybe switch to the on demand heater after heating season for a month and check the use to compare. If it wasn't for both of us working full time, I'd shut the heater off and use wood and the on demand. There is just the two of us and we seldom shower at home. We don't stink, just both have a gym and showers at work. Thanks for the help though.

Dave

Heating.electric vs oil/gas.....

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