Turbos

I saw my boss's Magnum sitting outside on a windy day last spring and it got me to thinking- It's common knowledge to cover the pipe on turbo'd tractors when hauling them, but what about sitting out in high wind? Is there really any difference between 50mph on a truck or 50mph straight-line winds? Has anyone ever had this happen?

"Has anyone ever had this happen? :"

Has anyone had WHAT, (specifically) happen???

Methinks you are looking for a CURE for a disease that doesn't exist! (YAMMV!)

As a matter of fact, I just hauled a turboed tractor 1500 miles and I darn sure taped up the exhaust. You don"t want air flowing through the turbo because it will cause the turbo to windmill and since it doesn"t pump it"s own lube oil( it uses the engine oil pump to supply lube oil) it would be windmilling dry and and damage the bearings.

No difference between a 50 mph wind or going 50mph on a trailer.

Actually, Jerry, while it's NO DOUBT a GOOD idea to tape up/secure the stack, (I do) the "haul it and trash the turbo" myth has (for the most part) been DEBUNKED.

NO air is gonna flow in the system without a specific cylinder having the intake AND exhaust valve OPEN and this DOES NOT happen (except for a bit of valve OVERLAP) but NOT enough to play "smoke the turbo"!

But it makes for a GOOD story, eh?

In in other words "old mechanic's wive's tale" # 89564!

Specifically- if anyone had a turbo seize up from sitting outside in a windstorm. I'm not worried about about my tractor either, but I was thinking high wind is high wind however it's caused. Made me curious.

NOT to worry! An aberration in the space-time continuum will do you in WAY B-4 your tractor's turbo suffers windstorm damage!

It's a GREAT "let's lose some sleep" over the windstorm and turbo thingy theory, though!

(BTW, did you think about my other post about NO airflow occurring 'cause there's NOT a great deal of of airflow that can occur 'cause there's not a lot of valve overlap in a stock oil burner engine to allow it?)

I hope I'm not being misunderstood. I know that hauling without cover can run your turbo tight, and however likely or unlikely, if I were hauling I wouldn't risk a $500 turbo for a quarters worth of DT. As far as a windstorm, it just seemed like the kind of stupid thing that could happen to some one person. Didn't know.

The wind blowing down the pipe and burning up the turbo old wives tale came up on another site.

Others pointed out that you can't windmill a turbo with it attached to a non running engine, as there is no way for air to flow through such an engine.
Others said " why do the companies recommend covering the exhaust when you transport them then??"
I got on google and checked every turbocharger builder /rebuilder on the net, checked their warranty / failure analysis page.
Not one listed wind blowing down the exhaust pipe and magically spinning the turbo as a reason for a failure. ALL listed covering the pipe to keep dirt, rain, road trash out of the pipe as a reason to cover it and protect the turbo.
Think about a rock or bit of metal road trash down the exhaust stack and laying against the turbo exhaust turbine.
You start the engine and run it up to fast idle, exhaust flow blows that lump of trash about half way back up the stack.
You pull the throttle back to slow idle, exhaust flow decreases and that lump of trash falls back into the turbo that is spinning at 40,000 rpm. Only takes a couple times for it to tear heck out of the exhaust turbine.

Personal experience for me, driving through a truckstop pea rock paved parking area. A semi with a big wheel loader loaded on it is parked back there. The wheel loader curved exhaust stack is uncovered and a little kid is standing there, trying his best to " make a basket" with a pea rock in the loaders exhaust stack. What are the odds he got a granite pea rock down the pipe, I always wondered

Yes I did read that post. Did you read mine where I said I WAS NOT worried about it being a problem? I also know that you can pack a heckofalot of air through a very small space in a very short time. Even worn rings or a few thousandths of an inch negative tappet clearance can kill your compression. And depending on the shape of the stack, it could become a bit of a ram-air turbo forcing more air through IF the valves happen to both be open. My thoughts only, I never said it was a problem that needed to be solved, just that strange things happen in this world and I wondered if it had happened yet.

when the wind blows down the stack.. you get all that free energy stored up. The turbine blades cut it into small chunks called "ferts" and store them up for later use.

Did you hear the one about the oh-no! bird or the Oooh-aaaahh bird? The there's the "FuKawee" Indian explanation.

(quoted from post at 22:29:05 04/12/11) Actually, Jerry, while it's NO DOUBT a GOOD idea to tape up/secure the stack, (I do) the "haul it and trash the turbo" myth has (for the most part) been DEBUNKED.

NO air is gonna flow in the system without a specific cylinder having the intake AND exhaust valve OPEN and this DOES NOT happen (except for a bit of valve OVERLAP) but NOT enough to play "smoke the turbo"!

But it makes for a GOOD story, eh?

In in other words "old mechanic's wive's tale" # 89564!

Click to expand...

If it's just a myth, tell me why Case-IH and Kubota recommend covering the exhaust while transporting the turbo-charged tractors? And yes, THAT is fact.

(quoted from post at 08:50:20 04/14/11)

(quoted from post at 22:29:05 04/12/11) Actually, Jerry, while it's NO DOUBT a GOOD idea to tape up/secure the stack, (I do) the "haul it and trash the turbo" myth has (for the most part) been DEBUNKED.

NO air is gonna flow in the system without a specific cylinder having the intake AND exhaust valve OPEN and this DOES NOT happen (except for a bit of valve OVERLAP) but NOT enough to play "smoke the turbo"!

But it makes for a GOOD story, eh?

In in other words "old mechanic's wive's tale" # 89564!

Click to expand...

If it's just a myth, tell me why Case-IH and Kubota recommend covering the exhaust while transporting the turbo-charged tractors? And yes, THAT is fact.

Click to expand...

I AGREE it's a good idea to cap the stack to keep debris out, etc., and it is certainly cheap insurance, and I do it myself.

HOWEVER, debris is one thing and the turbo spinning itself to death is another.

Did you read Jon Hagen's post about what his 'net research turned up?

"" why do the companies recommend covering the exhaust when you transport them then??"
I got on google and checked every turbocharger builder /rebuilder on the net, checked their warranty / failure analysis page.
Not one listed wind blowing down the exhaust pipe and magically spinning the turbo as a reason for a failure. ALL listed covering the pipe to keep dirt, rain, road trash out of the pipe as a reason to cover it and protect the turbo.
Think about a rock or bit of metal road trash down the exhaust stack and laying against the turbo exhaust turbine. "

Actually... there are some engines that are scavenged that have a considerable amount of overlap. While I don't think it's very likely to allow sufficient flow to take out a turbo... I don't think I'd 100% rule it out either.
I'd also wager that the whole pebble down the pipe theory is pretty far fetched too. You don't see too many through and through mufflers on farm tractors.... and it would be rather difficult to get anything through the maze in most of them.
Water would be the biggest enemy.

Rod

Then why does New Holland recommend this proceedure in their Owners Manual when hauling the tractor if it"s an old wives tale?

All that has to happen for air to flow through the engine and the turbo is for one the intake and exhaust valve on one cylinder to be partly open as it is bewteen the exhaust the intake stroke. the turbo machinery doen"t get damaged. It a lack of oil to the beaings on the turbo that are damaged. AIrcraft engine have their oil pumps driven by the high speed shaft through the gear box so thay can windmill forever with no harm to the bearings. Not so with these little turbo"s.
The same thing tht can happen with sustained winds thugh it"s unlikely that you can have sustained winds of high speed for many hours.

It"s not uncommon fr turboed tractors to be hauled for many hours at freeway speeds. I know. I just brought our tractor (NH TD95D) up from New Mexico to Western Montana. I darn sure followed the OEM"s instructions to tape over the exhaust pipe.
You all can believe what you want. For most of you, you"ll never have to worry about the possibility so so it"s a non-issue. nonetheless it is a possibel source of damage to the turbo" bearings.

(quoted from post at 09:35:39 04/14/11) Then why does New Holland recommend this proceedure in their Owners Manual when hauling the tractor if it"s an old wives tale?

All that has to happen for air to flow through the engine and the turbo is for one the intake and exhaust valve on one cylinder to be partly open as it is bewteen the exhaust the intake stroke. the turbo machinery doen"t get damaged. It a lack of oil to the beaings on the turbo that are damaged. AIrcraft engine have their oil pumps driven by the high speed shaft through the gear box so thay can windmill forever with no harm to the bearings. Not so with these little turbo"s.
The same thing tht can happen with sustained winds thugh it"s unlikely that you can have sustained winds of high speed for many hours.

It"s not uncommon fr turboed tractors to be hauled for many hours at freeway speeds. I know. I just brought our tractor (NH TD95D) up from New Mexico to Western Montana. I darn sure followed the OEM"s instructions to tape over the exhaust pipe.
You all can believe what you want. For most of you, you"ll never have to worry about the possibility so so it"s a non-issue. nonetheless it is a possibel source of damage to the turbo" bearings.

Click to expand...

Jerry, you hit the nail right square on the head.