Cylinder Hone Question

I need a cylinder hone. What is the difference between a ball hone and one with stones?? I was told to get a ball hone for the engine I'm working on. The bore is 3 5/8 inch, can I use a 4 inch or slightly larger ball hone or does it need to be exact size?? Thanks, Chris

Hones have a size range assigned to them.

Ball hones have a narrower range, if you find one slightly bigger it will still work, or if you buy one, buy it the size you need.

Stone type can be borrowed through the loan a tool program, you just have to buy the stones.

But I would not go after either one until you get the pistons out and take some measurements. A hone is really only intended to break the glaze, not remove scratches and gouges.

I would reliner that one if its me

Reminds me of the old junk yard dog he built a Toyota forklift engine and he had to hone so much to clean the cylinders up that he could of ran oversized pistons couldnt figure out what it ran worse than when he started

A ball hone will deglaze it but do nothing for truing the cylinder wall. A good stone hone will true it up to a certain point. Use lots of honing oil or equivalent when doing either. A finish honing machine is nothing more than a stone hone that you can set the precise amount you want to hone out with. We have all 3 in the shop but since we got the finish hone machine going it is about all we use anymore.

This post was edited by MSD on 03/30/2023 at 06:36 am.

Ok, here goes
#1The tractor ran good before tear down, just used a lot of oil. The valve guides were wore out. head is done.
#2 the tractor gets about 50 hours/year, mostly tractor rides and shows. It ran good before, I don't have the extra cash to put a extra grand or so into a toy. It ran before, it'll run again with new rings and head fixed.
#3 the pistons are out and at the machine shop, this was the only handy picture I had.
#4 My question pertained to ball hones and regular hones. If you want to pay the bill, I'll go new everything in the motor and do it to suit you. But it's mine, I'm paying for it on my limited income, so I'll just do what I have to to get by and it'll last the rest of my life.

I was taught there are basically two types of hones, rigid and glaze breakers. A rigid hone is used to bring the cylinder to the final dimension after boring. Glaze breakers which can be a ball hone or a stone hone are designed to break the cylinder glaze. A ball hone is also often used to do a final finish on a newly bored and rigid honed cylinder. Sometimes I ball hone a cylinder before checking it with a bore gauge to get a better reading. Beware, a ball hone will make a cylinder look pretty when it is out of spec with regards to taper and roundness. I will throw in some advice which others may not agree with. Using a ridgid hone to salvage an out of round or a cylinder which has too much taper is rarely(never) successful.

On a budget overhaul, freshen up kind of thing, I prefer to remove the ridge with a ridge reamer and then use the ball hone to clean up the bores and get the cross hatch pattern. I've done this on dozens of engines. Engines that I'm sure that if I actually mic'd out the bore I would have bored them out. But you know how your engine ran before, you aren't expecting miracles from a quick re-ring and the thing isn't going to be relied upon to pull a 7 bottom plow 11 hours a day. Anything you do will probably improve the engine to an extent. You asked about glaze breakers and that's my opinion. I have 2 350 Chevys and 1 283 that I did the quickie job on just for my own use and so far they are all still running just fine. One was done 25 years ago on a pickup that sees about the same use as your tractor. Admittedly, I wouldn't do this on a customer's engine because I can't guarantee the outcome of a quickie job like that. But on something that is my own and sees limited use, no problem.

this is what you need to do the job. the 3 stone hone can do different cyl. bores. and is spring loaded and there is also an adjustment for stone pressure. your cross hatch pattern is the most important thing in honing. you are looking for a 45 degree angle pattern in the cylinders. this is achieved with drill speed and in and out speed. do not sit there and spin in one spot ! just hone enough to remove the glaze! this is for the oil film to lube the rings. too low an angle as just spinning in one spot is hard on the rings. getting too much angle and you will loose oil control. as i was always told by our instructor is to use a white rag to clean the cylinders after honing . when the rags are staying white it is clean enough. you dont want that grit in there with new rings. but when honing a bare block it can be pressure washed, but not in your case.


you will also need a ring groove cleaner to remove the carbon from under the old rings. a broken ring also works but its hard on my thumb. then there is the ring end gap to check. also here is a quick check on your ring wear. put a new ring in the bottom of cylinder where no wear happens measure the gap. the put a used ring in this same spot and measure the gap with a feeler gauge of course. you will now see how much them old rings have worn. plus check the top side gap on ring lands with the new rings. you want that in spec also. i have re-ringed engines the same as you are doing for the same reason. sure they are not perfect but a heck of a lot better than before . i have no problem in your situation. but as you get to different areas keep asking. lots more to go.

those sleeves look fine. I don't even see a ring groove in the pictures. If you feel it with your finger nail it probably should be cut out then honed.For what you're going to do I would look at the ring groove and hone new rings and put it back together. they look like they were done not to long ago. With the valves done and new oil seals on them. It will run forever like that.

I must be looking at the pictures wrong because this one looks like either a broken ring has been ran a long time looks like someone took a rasp to it also the broken chunk of piston could of caused it . Also the heat discoloration marks on the right side of the liner

Well ya do have some decent scuffing and neither a ball hone nor a deglazing hone is going to remove that , That is going to take a ridgid hone and up to .001 out maybe .003 to clean up. If there was no scuffing then my go to would be a ball hone that would cover 3.500 to 4.00 , they do a nice job of knocking the glaze off and when run at the correct speed with the proper up and down you can get a good cross hatch fast and with them you don't have to worry about going to deep and busten stones and vary little meat is removed . Usually can get a decent cross hatch in five to 10 strokes . BUT with your scuffing myself it would be the Rigid hone . And if need be a .010 over ring and file fit end gaps for compression and oil control.

If it was mine, I spend a gazillion dollars on it then it would be right for the next gazillion years. lol gobble

Clean all the spooge and fooshees out of the cylinders so we can see what is really going on.

Where can a feller get oversized rings now days ??

Ball hones break the glaze. You want a sheen, not a shine. Think glossy versus matte. Finger hones can correct a small amount of taper/out-of-round. Measure the cylinders to make sure you are getting the correct rings.

Dingleball hones are for glaze breaking mostly two strokes The cylinders pictured would not clean up without a parallel stone hone The type of grit matters .