- Thread starter willyp
- Start date
ShadetreeRet
Well-known Member
Fellas, I'm no expert on this, so I don't know how this one is set up, but some tractors and trucks had two 12 volt batteries because the starter operated on 24 volts because of the high comp. diesel engine and the rest of the system operated on 12 volts. Just a thought.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
Shadetree is right. I know that a 2010 is set up to start on 24 and the rest runs on 12 volts.
All of the Mannheim designed tractors had two 12 volt batteries hooked up in parallel, 12 volt system. This JD 2640 is 12 volt. Nothing after the 20 series was 24 volt in the Ag tractor side.
You did not say where you are located. If you get very cold then the single battery will not have enough cold cranking amps to start your tractor. If you are in the south or don"t use the tractor in cold weather then a single battery will work. Just don"t get a car battery. You need high cranking amps but a good reserve is more important. Example: some of the car batteries claim 1100 cold cranking amps but with only a 15 minute reserve. That will work fine is a gas engine application that need fast crank speeds but start quickly. Put that battery in your tractor and it will not crank long enough to get it started. A lower cranking amps with a longer reserve will work better.
One thing to do that will help the cranking on this tractor is to run separate battery cables to the starter. The original jumper under the clamp bolt was terrible at carrying cranking amperage. The replacement double ended cable is better but not as good as two good positive cables. Also ground the batteries to the starter mounting bolts. The original ones that went to the dash are junk.
You did not say where you are located. If you get very cold then the single battery will not have enough cold cranking amps to start your tractor. If you are in the south or don"t use the tractor in cold weather then a single battery will work. Just don"t get a car battery. You need high cranking amps but a good reserve is more important. Example: some of the car batteries claim 1100 cold cranking amps but with only a 15 minute reserve. That will work fine is a gas engine application that need fast crank speeds but start quickly. Put that battery in your tractor and it will not crank long enough to get it started. A lower cranking amps with a longer reserve will work better.
One thing to do that will help the cranking on this tractor is to run separate battery cables to the starter. The original jumper under the clamp bolt was terrible at carrying cranking amperage. The replacement double ended cable is better but not as good as two good positive cables. Also ground the batteries to the starter mounting bolts. The original ones that went to the dash are junk.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
I totally agree with what JDseller stated especially the part about changing the ground cable mounting from the battery box to the frame or engine.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Rip
JD 2010 D came from the factory as 12 Volts not 24 volts. Plus no 24V system JD diesel started on 24Volts and the rest ran on 12 volts because the generator & regular were 24 volts. Yes the lights and gauges were 12 volts.
Dieselrider
Member
My 2640 has one 12 volt battery. The battery technology of today is greatly improved over 1979. Then you needed the two batteries to get the cranking power necessary and that is not the case today. One battery will do you just fine.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Batteries have not been substantially improved since 1979. The tractor has not become easier to start with the passage of time either.
The starter requires enough current but most folk forget about maintaining voltage while cranking.
Batteries do not keep a 12.6 terminal voltage while under load. The higher the load, the lower the terminal voltage. Try measuring some time.
Starter motor as with any other electric motor. They draw higher current to attempt compensation for lower voltage. Just like a low powered, bogging skill saw that burns out. On the end of too many extension cords.
Two batteries were used to allow cramming enough capacity into an unhandy location.
If you live in the south and operate the tractor spring, summer and fall. Then a single group 31 will do. However I'm assuming you want to use just one group 78 or similar battery.
Battery and starter life will be reduced. By how much, it depends.
Just how much are you hoping to save with one battery?
As for the know nothings that want you to smoke a Dubuque/Mannheim Ag tractors electrical system with a 24V connection. Best just ignore their "help".
The starter requires enough current but most folk forget about maintaining voltage while cranking.
Batteries do not keep a 12.6 terminal voltage while under load. The higher the load, the lower the terminal voltage. Try measuring some time.
Starter motor as with any other electric motor. They draw higher current to attempt compensation for lower voltage. Just like a low powered, bogging skill saw that burns out. On the end of too many extension cords.
Two batteries were used to allow cramming enough capacity into an unhandy location.
If you live in the south and operate the tractor spring, summer and fall. Then a single group 31 will do. However I'm assuming you want to use just one group 78 or similar battery.
Battery and starter life will be reduced. By how much, it depends.
Just how much are you hoping to save with one battery?
As for the know nothings that want you to smoke a Dubuque/Mannheim Ag tractors electrical system with a 24V connection. Best just ignore their "help".
Thanks for the good info,I live in east Texas and don't use the tractor much in the winter. I did change the ground cable to ground on the frame instead of on the sheet metal like original.I like the post about using 2 hot cables and grounding to the starter that is a good idea.
> I live in east Texas and don't use the tractor much in the winter.
You could probably get buy with a single not-so-good battery in that environment.
My JD dozer only had one old car battery in it when I bought it and it was more than enough until the temperature dropped below 40F. Even though that's a slightly smaller 4cyl diesel than your 2460, I think the same will probably hold true. When it's below freezing, my dozer needs every last amp of two good batteries to turn over, but that's probably something you don't have to worry about much in TX.
You could probably get buy with a single not-so-good battery in that environment.
My JD dozer only had one old car battery in it when I bought it and it was more than enough until the temperature dropped below 40F. Even though that's a slightly smaller 4cyl diesel than your 2460, I think the same will probably hold true. When it's below freezing, my dozer needs every last amp of two good batteries to turn over, but that's probably something you don't have to worry about much in TX.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
willyp
I've seen many Dubuque/Mannheim utility tractors down here in the soon to be desert of Texas with only 1 large CCA 12 V battery that start excellent
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yep they actually start easier with one big battery vs 2.
Reason - corrosion on the terminals - 2 connections vs 4. They don't charge correctly and you get problems.
966 with a D-414 started down to zero with one huge battery vs 2 - the one big one was like the 2 6v's but put together. They 6v's were the long rectangle type on the side of the tractor. had to modify the battery box.
I want to say the 12v had well over 1000 CCA.
Reason - corrosion on the terminals - 2 connections vs 4. They don't charge correctly and you get problems.
966 with a D-414 started down to zero with one huge battery vs 2 - the one big one was like the 2 6v's but put together. They 6v's were the long rectangle type on the side of the tractor. had to modify the battery box.
I want to say the 12v had well over 1000 CCA.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
In warm weather a single group 31 battery will deliver enough current and maintain tolerable terminal voltages.
The Mannheims with a 3KW starter will draw approx 450 amps if the starter terminals are kept at 10V.
The same application with a battery that can maintain only 8V while cranking will draw 570amp.
This of course causes a viscous circle of more voltage drop across each connection,cable and winding. The higher current increases the voltage drops, which causes the starter to draw even more current.
As previously stated.A world of difference what you can get away with at temps above 50F vs. below 50F.
Battery available energy drops rapidly as approaching freezing temps. While the engine becomes more difficult to turn. And higher cranking rpms are required to warm the air in a combustion chamber surrounded by colder metal.
The Mannheims with a 3KW starter will draw approx 450 amps if the starter terminals are kept at 10V.
The same application with a battery that can maintain only 8V while cranking will draw 570amp.
This of course causes a viscous circle of more voltage drop across each connection,cable and winding. The higher current increases the voltage drops, which causes the starter to draw even more current.
As previously stated.A world of difference what you can get away with at temps above 50F vs. below 50F.
Battery available energy drops rapidly as approaching freezing temps. While the engine becomes more difficult to turn. And higher cranking rpms are required to warm the air in a combustion chamber surrounded by colder metal.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
Are you sure? My bosses 2010 has 2 12 volt batteries with two of the wires from the positive battery posts going to the starter. They are not hooked in series. They hook to different places on the starter. He said that it was a 24 volt starter. It sure looked like it to me.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I would believe txjim. He maybe a lot of things but he's usually close to the truth and even bang on at times.
If the 2010 really was a 24V system. The electrical system was a field modified contraption.
If the 2010 really was a 24V system. The electrical system was a field modified contraption.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
buickanddeere
And just what did you mean by " may be many things"????? I've refrained from aggravating and chastising you lately. And yes a JD utility tractor normally starts(barring any hyd problems) down here with 1 high CCA battery but farther North two batteries are much better.
Dieselrider
Member
The one battery has been in my 2640 for about five years with no problems at all. Sometimes you tend to look at so much technical BS that you fail to live life and spend so much time detailing why something very workable can't be done. You are incorrect also regarding the battery improvements since the seventies. Get out of the books and actually do something for a change.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
rlp in Co
Any way you could post the starter number on the supposedly 24V 2010??? It definitely didn't come from the factory as 24V.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
txjim. It was actually all a compliment.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I suppose a sealed battery that dies when water can not be added is an improvement to you?
Other than alloying the lead plates with a little calcium. And varying plate thickness and supports.
Besides packaging.Lead acid battery technology pretty much peaked with WWII submarine batteries.
Would my servicing of batteries in all manner of emergency vehicles and equipment in the nuclear industry count? Plus a little dabbling in golf carts and solar/wind power.
How cold is the weather when you need a open combustion chamber diesel to start?
Other than alloying the lead plates with a little calcium. And varying plate thickness and supports.
Besides packaging.Lead acid battery technology pretty much peaked with WWII submarine batteries.
Would my servicing of batteries in all manner of emergency vehicles and equipment in the nuclear industry count? Plus a little dabbling in golf carts and solar/wind power.
How cold is the weather when you need a open combustion chamber diesel to start?
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Ah shucks I thought you were trying to get my blood pressure up!!!!!!!!! Thank You
Dieselrider
Member
Our winters here in central PA get pretty cold (-10F) and this tractor fires just fine. The 2640 is one of the easiest starting tractors Deere has put out. I do not care what you think you know. Back in 79 they didn't have a battery built with enough cranking amps for the engine and that is why they added the other battery. Today they have single batteries with two to three times the CCA to handle it with one battery.
If you want to play with two batteries in your tractor, go for it but, don't play the expert and say it shouldn't be done that way when others are proving it can be and has been done.
If you want to play with two batteries in your tractor, go for it but, don't play the expert and say it shouldn't be done that way when others are proving it can be and has been done.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Dieselrider
I think your post must be referring to another poster. but I've got 2 questions.
What makes a 2640 any easier to crank than any of the other JD Dubuque/Mannheim 4 cyl utility tractors??????
Please explain your statement of "Today they have single batteries with two to three times the CCA to handle it with one battery".??????
Thank you,Jim
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Dieselrider maybe comparing apples and oranges?
Say an old group 75 battery vs. a new group 31
battery? There is approx double the weight, size and
capacity between the two.
Say an old group 75 battery vs. a new group 31
battery? There is approx double the weight, size and
capacity between the two.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Maybe so but I'd still like to know how a JD 2640 is any easier to start than any other JD 4 cyl engine in a utility tractor of that era all things equal.
2cylpartsinfo
Member
The very early 2640's (as I remember) had a cold start problem that was corrected with a piston change. All of these should have been changed out or worn out years ago.
A very early 2640 that has original pistons is the only reason I can think of it would need two batteries.
A very early 2640 that has original pistons is the only reason I can think of it would need two batteries.
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