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O/T Speaking of handguns......

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bradk

Well-known Member
Anyone here carry or have a conceal/carry permit?I got my permit this past Spring at a one day class here in Minnesota.About $300 for class and application to local Sheriff's office when all was said and done.Good for 5 years.

Depending on the clothing I wear, I carry either a Bauer 25 pocket pistol or a Walther PP 32 in a side holster.Next gun show I go to,I'm coming home with a modern 9mm and nice shoulder holster.
 
Here in FL, its pretty simple to carry if you have been through a required hunter safety course, required for any license. I know opinions are like a holes, but to me, a .25 is the worst round invented for a handgun. Keep in mind, I dont want to be shot by a bb gun, but like you say, your other gun show choices are good. That little Ruger LCP gets good reviews too.
 
I have been carrying since 1998 and teach the certification class in Michigan. I mostly carry a Ruger SP 101 .357. I concur the .25 acp is a piece of junk to carry, not only low on power but highly un-dependable like most blow back actions. I am sure you are carrying it because it is convienient to carry. I had a Kimber I used to carry years ago, what a undependable piece of junk it was and most I have seen in my class are the same way. The newer Kimbers now are finally working alot better then the older models, but they won't get anymore of my money after all I spent on one years ago.
 
Concealed permits aren"t cheap in Michigan either. Wife, son and I all have permits, and carry 9mm. We reload, so ammo costs are a little more reasonable. Yeah, I know, bigger is better, but we"re not about to try to conceal cannons. Have to think about what you can comfortably carry for a number of hours.
 
Make no mistake a .25 will kill someone ,lost a good friend,,shot by a .25 . myself I"d rather pack something lil more reliable and more power. But on occassion I throw my lil .25 in my pocket .
 
Yes, can open carry, but that kind of defeats the concept of concealed! Also tends to create a commotion wherever you go.....
 
Yes you can. The law states that you must carry in a holster in plain view unless you have a concealed pistols license.
 
(quoted from post at 19:15:39 08/30/11) Yes, can open carry, but that kind of defeats the concept of concealed! Also tends to create a commotion wherever you go.....
Click to expand...

Have you open carried much? Rarely does it cause a commotion, in fact most people don't even notice. As open carrying has grown in popularity it is becoming more of an acceptable and normal occurrence.

I have my CPL but choose to open carry most of the time as it is easier, more comfortable, and I also like exercising my rights. Also OC with your CPL allows you to carry in places that are off limits to concealed carry or open carry without a CPL.
 
I carry a Colt Commader .45 in a paddle holster or a Ruger LCP .380 in an inside the waist band holster. Depends on what clothes I'm wearing.
 
In my state restricted premises for guns do not differentiate between open and concealed carry except for banks that I know of. Otherwise, there are not any places that you can open carry in and not concealed carry.
 
(quoted from post at 19:52:00 08/30/11) In my state restricted premises for guns do not differentiate between open and concealed carry except for banks that I know of. Otherwise, there are not any places that you can open carry in and not concealed carry.
Click to expand...

In Michigan with your CPL while carrying concealed you aren't allowed to carry in churches, theater or sports even with 2500 people, hospital, day care, or K-12 school.

With your CPL and openly carrying it is legal to carry in those places unless the owner has posted the place as firearm free.

I suggest a few hours of reading and researching the laws recited on this forum. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?106-Michigan

Also look up Michigan MCL 28.425o and read it carefully.
[i:79aec46e46]
"28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.

Sec. 5o.

(1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual [b:79aec46e46]licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol[/b:79aec46e46], or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall [b:79aec46e46]not carry a concealed pistol[/b:79aec46e46] on the premises of any of the following:"[/i:79aec46e46]
 
$300 in Minnesota? Why not drive to North Dakota, pay $45 for a nonresident CCW permit, good for 5 years, and it has reciprocity ?
 
Those are good points , I will have to look that up some more and see how that defines open carry vs. concealed.
 
I just read the penal code again and it is stated firearm, not conealed pistol. So as I read it there is not an exception to carry a openly carried firearm in a movie theatre or hospital, sports arean.
 


Got mine here in Mn, cost me about 125 this past spring and that included a gun club membership. I carry a Colt 1911.


No reciprocity with ND cause ND has 2 levels of carry permits, one that allows an 18 yo to carry.....that's a no go in Mn.

Rick
 
need to get mine renewed in next few months--initial class and sheriff fees totaled about 200. gets cheaper to renew 100 for 5 year or 170 for ten year. carry a .40 smith and wesson tactical or my walther ppk---glad allthe states around me have reciprocity. only had trouble once with nervous highway patrolman----move slowly when they ask you where it is and just point. don't reach for it without permission. most don't care.
 
My wife and I both received concealed pistol licenses last fall. We don't carry, but it is nice to have that option since we work on our rental property in a less-than-desirable neighborhood.
 
I agree about the .25. If you're carrying for self defense get a .380 and some ammo, not from this country, that is 'anti-personnel'.
 
(quoted from post at 20:41:03 08/30/11) I just read the penal code again and it is stated firearm, not conealed pistol. So as I read it there is not an exception to carry a openly carried firearm in a movie theatre or hospital, sports arean.
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You should really [i:843de0451f]read[/i:843de0451f] the laws as written. It says if you have your CPL you can't carry concealed there.

In fact read through this legal update from the MSP it spells it out in plain english.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

If you truly are a CPL instructor you should take this time to learn as much as you can about the actual laws as written not the way someone told you they are written. I had a wonderful CPL instructor who know these laws like the back of his hand and was very willing to teach about open carry, but many people's CPL instructors preach that open carry is bad and that its a hassle and that there are no advantages to it.
 
I forgot MCL 750.234d states it more clearly.

[i:e3abaa088e]750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
.......yada....yada.....yada......yada........................

[b:e3abaa088e](2) This section does not apply to any of the following:[/b:e3abaa088e]

[b:e3abaa088e](c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.[/b:e3abaa088e][/i:e3abaa088e]
 
My carry permit in SD cost $10. No class. Had it in 3 days. Good for 5 years/ I carry a Ruger SR9. 14 shots but for easy carry I load just 7.
 
Yes, however a person licensed to carry concealed is also prohibited from carrying in those areas with certain exceptions, the prior law was in effect in the 1990s prior to the CPL lawl. You need to read both statues to fully understand, they do not cancel each other out. I wll verify this by asking the attorney that I have teach the legal section of my class.
 
youve obviously not shot a good 25,ive never had mine fail to fire or eject once,and ive carried and shot it for 40+years.ive had more jams and misfires with sw,colt,even glocks than i ever had with my 25.why would you consider it under powered?isnt the whole idea of a personal defence weapon to allow you to get away from an attacker?as long as i am out of arms reach thats good enough for 99% of cases.the other guys hopped up on drugs you better break a bone with even the biggest caliber or your in trouble anyway.now if i was hanging out where those drugged up folks did i might reconsider that of course.but im not real likely to run into one at church or in the pasture,or even at work.i think sometimes folks tend to forget what these little autos and pocket pistols were designed and built to be.and i think if you would check,most killings are done with a lowly,underpowered 22.its funny but some guy 20 ft away giving me a cussing,threatening me ,waving a knife or even in most cases a gun isnt threatening enough to me to justify his killing.you touch me though,and i guarantee you will have 6 25 caliber implants,what ones that dont pass through anyway.I would be willing to wager ,if you took a poll across the country right now,that 95% of the folks who had a concealed carry permit were unarmed right now.if you asked why 99.9% of those would say its simply unconvenient to carry .they did it,and found it just wasnt comfortable.my 25 in my pocket will do more than their 45's in their dresser everytime period.
 
Wife and I both have permits, but seldom carry. $64 or so for 5 year permit in Washington, no class or additional expenses. I have a KelTec .380 Auto, weighs about 7 oz. Wife has a .357 magnum that she carries in the mountains on horseback rides. More and more cougars around here.
 
(quoted from post at 07:32:07 08/31/11) Yes, however a person licensed to carry concealed is also prohibited from carrying in those areas with certain exceptions, the prior law was in effect in the 1990s prior to the CPL lawl. You need to read both statues to fully understand, they do not cancel each other out. I wll verify this by asking the attorney that I have teach the legal section of my class.
Click to expand...

Ask your attorney all you want. The law is what it is and is clearly spelled out in the MSP legal update that I linked to. This has held up in court on numerous occasions.

A person with CPl is prohibited to carry [i:3312cee261][b:3312cee261]concealed[/b:3312cee261][/i:3312cee261] in certain places. On the back of my CPL it clearly states no CONCEALED carry in Xxxx areas. While open carrying you have to follow that law about where you can and can't carry. The law about where you can't open carry says "this doesn't apply to those licensed to carry a concealed weapon." Therefor the attorney general, MSP, and other courts have interpreted that to mean you can open carry with your CPL in many of those areas.

Before you teach another class with possible misinformation I would really study up on the law and how it is written and which laws apply to which type of carry. Also read the MSP legal updates as they spell it out clearly for their officers and the general public.
 
If I remember correctly, the ballistics specs on a .25 auto were quite a bit less than that of a .22 long rifle round fired from a similar pistol. And I don't think that the .380 was all that powerful either.

If I was in a situation that caused me to seriously consider shooting another person or a large animal, I would want to be firing something with the power to actually stop whatever my target was. Not a .22, .25 or .380, and maybe not even a 9mm auto or .38 special. .357magnum, 10mm auto, .44magnum or .45 auto have lots more stopping power and now there are pistols available in smaller sizes that use the large cartridges, yet are pretty concealable.

A .25 would be my last choice as a defensive handgun. Better than nothing, but not much.
 
I"ll add another comment: I was a juror in a case where a young man was defending his sister (they were grabbing her) and shot 2 guys with a .357 from 5 feet with some cheap hollow points. It stopped both them in their tracks and made a canoe out of one of their heads. Unfortunately, he got 2 years for it. Both victims had 10 page rap sheets and when he said to leave her alone, they said they would kill him. This was before the passing of Floridas Castle law" you can use lethal force if you fear for your life or someone elses life.
 
A cop pulled a 90 year old lady over. She seemed nervouis, so the officer asked why? She said I have a permit to carry, and have a 38 special in the glove box.

Then she said i have a 45 in the concel.

Then she said she had a machine gun behind the seat.

The officer asked her what in the heck she was afraid of? Her reply was.... not a freaking thing!
 
Ok you guys are really getting into the debate of velocity/energy/ Taylor KO (TKO).......


So .22 long, high velocity..........1260 FPS and 140 ft lbs of energy....no taylor rating.


.25 50 grain FMJ velocity 760FPS (+-) 65 ft lbs of energy and taylor TKO of 1.4

357 mag 158 grain JHP velocity 1240FPS, 535 ft lbs and TKO 10.0

380 95 grain JHP velocity 955FPS, 192 ft lbs and TKO of 4.6

9MM luger 115 grain JHP velocity 1225FPS, 383 ft lbs and TKO of 7.2

40 Smith 180 grain JHP velocity 1000FPS, 400 ft lbs and TKO of 10.3

10 MM 180 grain JHP velocity 1030FPS, 425 ft lbs and TKO of 10.6

45 ACP 185 grain JHP velocity 1000 FPS, 411 Ft lbs and a TKO of 11.9

These are just examples. The arguement about bullet placement goes out the window when the traget is shooting back. You guys should also look up one shot stops ratios. You may be suprised at what you find.

I also find it interesting that while carrying a .45 as a side arm in the military we were taught one shot one kill but when they switched over to the 9MM we were told to double tap.

Yer never going to convinve someone who likes carrying a small lite pistol that it isn't up to the task if needed. Nor are you going to convence me that my .45 ACP is too much.

Kinda like the 5.56 arguement. Combat soldiers have hit bad guys in the chest at 100 yards and failed to put them down. My son who completed infantry training this spring told me they are teaching double tap with the rifle now. Then you read where a general says 70% of the troops love the M16/M4 rifles.......70% of soldiers do their fighting with key board and tool boxes....thats right, 70% are support troops.

Rick
 

I think yer right the source I used didn't have a seperate listing for rim fire rifle and pistol. It list .44 mag for both rifle and with the same load shoot 1760 FPS rifle and 1180 for the pistol. I didn't record that because 44. mag isn't a common carry gun, sure a few do but not many.

Rick
 
Another observation......what ever someone picks for a CCW/personal defense weapon.......yer betting yer life on it!

Rick
 
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