People getting stupid? Me getting cranky?

I just watched teh saturdya morning programming of home building and all tha tjazz. I am getting cranky because I see stuff they are doing and it is subpar across the board. They admit it being stupid. What they do sells for millions.

What I do just keeps my family afloat. I have been "homebuilding" since 1989. My dad started "homebuilding" in 1959. In all that time, it seems that stuff gets dumbed down, or people get a bit stupid. I don't know. Everything going on shows how they did it 40 years ago with some new stuff thrown in, nut basically it is the same/


Why, when I watch this, do I see things that are common become a major hurdle? Ratings for TV? Are they that stupid? Why do I need 15 permits to do something I understand better than them?

I regress... because I have to. I want to learn the proper ways, but do I want to pay a fee so someone can watch me?


I am building a structure 30'X80'. I will build it from farm lumber minus $400 in shingle costs. The rest of the wood comes from the farm. Why should the regulate me?


I wish I could build a rocket that sends peopl to the moon. I have teh background. Instead,I willwork for building for the farm. people want a hadn in everyting I do!

They want permits for 2 reasons, one so the town can make money and the second: there is poor work being done out there.

Case in point, a farm magazine about 15 years ago had an article about heavy snow in the VA/MD area and barns were collapsing. They showed pictures of a barn and you could tell it was "farm built" because they had the rafters all laid down and not on end. i guess it was easier nailing the plywood down to it. This is why we need permits.

Evey been to farm auctions and look at some people/farmers hack jobs in electrical or framing. Its scary when you have bare wires just hanging there exposed. One auction i went to had just built an equipment shed and uses 2x6 for a 16' span on 2" centers. There isn't enough wood holding the roof up and it was already sagging.

Pulling permits, like it or not will cover you in insurance claims. If you put a wood stove in without pulling a permit and it burns to the ground, you might not be covered.

There again there is a lot of incompetent people out there both farmers and non-farmers who I would be scared to have putting a wood stove in a dog house, let alone a home.

That being said, yes the permit pulling can be very overboard, but blame stupid people for it. Not the inspector.



just my 5 cents worth both taxes

Third reason for permit, so they know you're making an addition to your property, so they can reevaluate your property tax assessment, raise your taxes.

You're getting cranky. TV runs whatever sells. Don't
believe everything you see.

In my township it is about the MONEY. A permit is needed for eveything except painting or carpeting. My friend replaced his outside cellar entrance with a sheet of pressure treated plywood. Had to get a 15.00 permit after he got caught. A person put a small trelace in his garden for some kind of vine to crawl on, had to pull a permit. ETC. ETC. The twp. hired a guy that drives around and checks on everybody. If you hire someone to cut down a tree or even just a trim job a $200.00 contractor lic. is needed. They may only have one job in the twp. all year so the cost of the lic. is added to the first job for that year.

I could be wrong but I think in PA you can not fund the general budget with zoning/ permit fees.

Not against totally against permits, but don't punish a guy who is trying to maintain or improve his property.

Yes, I am cranky also.

I say, for do it yourself projects, they should have no permits at all, then the stupid people would kill themselves in the death traps they build, and would also not be able to propogate their gene pool :lol:

When I see them go psycho tearing out the old woodwork and appliances I can't help but wonder how stiff and sore they are the next morning. And it hurts me to watch them break up good lumber that could be re-used. I've torn down a good many buildings for the lumber, and I know darned well that you can't go at it like an ape for long without paying the consequences. But I guess it makes good TV footage. Jim

I am also in the building trade. I myself have been guilty of giving bad advise here on home improvement in that, I learned that what is the best product and procedure in my area may be completely wrong and substandard in other parts of the country. Perhaps this could be some of what you're seeing on TV.

I use to think the same way as you till I moved to our current farm. Electrical here scares the crap out of me. Few different things the prevoius owner. In the basement he had 2 wires joined by an outlet. No box or even tape just an outlet hanging in mid air. He didn't have a single box/cable connector on anything. Just a cable going in the sharp edges of the box and not even wire clips to hold it in place outside the box. Othere was a bare wire connection in barn. He twist connected wires ABOVE an electrical box. no marettes or tape. Bird built a nest on top of it and until we found that the lights would only stay on for an hour before the breaker would trip. Also found a nail driven straight through a wire. Just a complete disregard for safety and complete lack of common sense. I admit that I do stuff without permits and don't feel bad about it. I'm not paying $500 in permits for a $2000 job and then be told something else simply because they don't like it. It's just not worth the hassle. Around here there are people that are hired to follow lumber trucks around. Not so much here but a few municipalities beside us. They won't bother a person with a pick up truck but they'll follow a lumber truck and make sure that whoever is getting the load has permits for what their doing.

I remember 'way back when, when I was managing a newspaper, there was a wall 20' wide with a door in the middle between the office area and the production area. The out of state publisher decided he wanted to move the wall back 12' so we could carry more office supplies for sale in the office area.

The publisher never got a permit, and I never gave it a thought. (We were a half block from the City offices). I hired a couple of college students who knew how to swing a hammer and had them go to it. They split the wall above the door into two sections and already had one section moved back when the city building inspector walked in on business entirely disassociated. He just stood there with his jaw open for a couple of minutes.

At that point, all I could do was pay for the permit.

I did some drywall repair on an addition to a log cabin. The 14/2 was under the drywall on top of the studs. Unbelievable. When they added the addition, the flat roof drained BACKWARDS against the old logs. I had to find a roofing company that could install rubber roofing and put the filler under it to maintain a slope to the gutter. These poor people have been ripped off five or six times. I told them to call me before they had any work done costing more than $25.

I've built lots of buildings here in B.C. without permits and I have developed some methods to avoid inspecters,such as painting the framing in army green before using,or building from friday to over the weekend,or when the neighbours are on vacation,etc.I still build at or above building standards but cheating the bureaucracy saves my clients a lot of money,maybe 30%. Woodsheds,barns,suites,general reno's.It's just the way it is around here.My electrical work is always done by certified electricians.Electricians must comply with provincial inspections,totally separate from local inspections.This was done so electricians could get their permits for jobs with no building permits and thats fine with me,because I know zilch about wiring.
I must say tho from reading the other postings that there are some MILITANT districts,right out of big brother which reminds me our building inspector showed me his satellite maps on his computer.He just hits a button and all the new roofs are highlighted so I like to build under trees now.

My fil used to say "well they ain't going to make me tear it down"

They are permit crazy in DC have seen permits for rearranging cubicles and desks....but the worst was the police arresting a vendor for a missing banana permit. A regular customer had asked her if she could add bananas...she hadnt thought it out. She offered to remove the bananas, no dice Put her in the car and they towed her hot dog-candy cart. Plus got a parking ticket on her car.

She was back to work 2 weeks later minus the bananas

You do know who the inspectors are don't you?
They are those who couldn't do good enough work to make it as a successful electrician, plumber, builder, etc. If they can't make it as an inspector, they will become a politician! :evil:

In Texas I called the city asking on what an electical permit would cost. They told me I didnt need one b/c I was outside of the city limits (inside extraterritorial jurisdiction), therefore they wouldn't give me one. Kinda wish they made the subdivision have permits; my electrical wiring is all over the place. Previous house "flipper" moved a light switch a foot over and buried the former box in the wall. No wire nuts; only black tape. When I tore into the wall the new box fell down and the lights went out....

I wonder if you sat down and figured it out, how much of a "money grab" is all this permitting, really?

You have to hire people to do all the paperwork.
You have to hire people to go out and "inspect" the work.
You have to hire people to drive around and look for violations.

By the time you've paid all their salaries, health care, PENSIONS, and of course the brand new pickup truck that they get to drive around... How much of those permit fees are left?

At best, the zoning/inspection authority a BREAK EVEN proposition.

We're probably subsidizing them out of the general fund!

(quoted from post at 09:28:35 11/05/11)...............till I moved to our current farm. Electrical here scares the crap out of me. Few different things the prevoius owner. In the basement he had 2 wires joined by an outlet. No box or even tape just an outlet hanging in mid air. He didn't have a single box/cable connector on anything. Just a cable going in the sharp edges of the box and not even wire clips to hold it in place outside the box. Othere was a bare wire connection in barn. He twist connected wires ABOVE an electrical box. no marettes or tape. Bird built a nest on top of it and until we found that the lights would only stay on for an hour before the breaker would trip. Also found a nail driven straight through a wire. Just a complete disregard for safety and complete lack of common sense. ...................

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Agree 100%. The electrical at a farm that boards our horse also scares the bejesus out of me. I've been doing electrical work there over the years and every chance I get, I demo the old stuff and put in new. all wiring in EMT conduit, no romex nailed to posts, etc. Mice love to chew on it and I've seen the charred wood as evidence. I don't use PVC because I've seen what horses do to that stuff. I've seen romex twisted together (at least they used wire nuts) in the open IN A HAY LOFT. No box, just waiting for someone to trip over it, pull the wire nuts off and have a live wire sitting there. One time, someone said there's smoke coming from behind a locker. Turns out some barn workers had just put up foam insulation and nailed through a run of romex into the metal siding. Basically the whole barn was HOT.

As for permits, ag buildings don't need permits here, but that doesn't mean stuff shouldn't be done right which means safe.