IH Low-Ash is Spendy. Options?

I know I need a low-soot oil for my 666 gasser to prevent valve build-up. I can't find specs on Cenex "Auto Gold" but it says its made for all gas engines INCLUDING propane. Do I need to worry about it having the right additives for my flat-tappet engine?

Just buy 15w40 rotella, it will work fine.

For those of us in the cheap seats, how does diesel oil burn 2 exhaust valves on a gasser?
AaronSEIA

I had 2 burnt exhaust valves because of diesel oil. Just finishing up a major overhaul.

U are CLUELESS!

I'm not running IH low ash oil in my old tractors
either, but, they are toys. On a hard working gas
engine like a 656, the calcium, barium, magnesium
additives(which happen to be the additives low ash
oil has left out) in a regular diesel motor oil will
definetly contribute to burned exhaust valves as it
collects on the head and face of the valves and
retards the transfer of heat of valve to the seat to
the head to the coolant.

IF you are not running low ash oil in a I H gasser and working it it will eat and exhaust valve so fast your head will spin . as i have seen it happen even after a fresh valve job .

Nope he is not as i have seen it happen and it will eat a valve so fast your head will spin . Just got done doing a valve job on one of my 706 gassers BECAUSE OF a burnt valve and went and hooked up to the New Holland grinder mixer to grind a batch of hog feed . Pulled the big screen out and put the small hole screen in and went to grinding . I just looked to see how much corn was in the tank and all of a sudden she sputtered and puked a red hot chunk out the stack and started to die and was missing AGAIN . Took the 708 off the grinder and finished with the S/MTA . Pulled the head and the brand new exhaust valve had the nicest VEE torched in it and a second one was almost thru , I had just put all new valves in that head. This is when i learned about the low ash oil . And yes it cost more but i do not get my rocks off doing valve jobs even though i can do them myself. Does it work you can bet the farm on that as since we have switched to the low ash we have never ate another exhaust valve.

What did Deere and Allis and Ford and all the rest do about the problem? Did any other make tractors have any issues. It is hard to believe that everyone else had better valves.
We had a pair of 706's when they were new and near new. I remember dad bought CenPeCo oil, but that is all I remember. One year the first day of field work one of them blew a V-notch out of a valve. It had been using quite a bit of oil, so dad took it to the dealer and had a major overhaul.

Phillips Petroluem used to sell HDS(low ash) and then went to Super HD II (low ash). Many farmers used it around here. It had right on the jug low ash oil.

OK, so you just got done with the valve job, because of a burnt valve, and you burned another one that fast? You didnt change the oil when you put the head back on? I dont get it! I assume since your better than that, you did in fact change the oil to this magic miracle Case IH oil, and you still burnt a valve?!

The soot in the diesel oil will collect on the exhaust valve
stem and cause it to stick open.

unfortunately We still work them each day like when they were new. Around here most of the farms are small family dairy or small beef operations and they are still using older equipment . Lots of I H gassers still working everyday. And with the price of diesel verses gas guess which ones are getting run more . Reg 87 around here this week is 3.20 and the 93 is 3.40 on farm diesel is like 3.65 with out the road tax. Last load of diesel we got we got it for 3.53 and the high test was 3.43. With the tax as we have to take the road tax off at tax time . many years back is when i learned about the low ash and valves on the newer I H gassers. I was one of them that yep any old oil will work . Then it was why am i eating exhaust valve like M&M's , Do a valve job to spec.'s with all new OEM valves and guides and seats do everything by the book and in a vary short time eat a valve . Started asking questions with guys more in the know and finally a old I H dealer from Marion Indiana and i were talking and he is the one that told me about the oil and the gassers . since then non of us have had a valve problem just like with the use of the hightest gas. Myself since i have owned gas powered equipment i have run the hightest i them . Now that winter is coming on the gassers will be run all the time and the diesels will be put to bed for the winter .

we switched oil after that one as that is when i started asking more questions . And that is when i found out about it from a old I H dealer from Marion In. This problem started back on the 460-560 gassers . They are not like a old H or M as they turn more RPM and the parts have less contact time with there mating parts to dispense heat and any carbon that collects on the valve will burn or get hotter and it will torch a cute little VEE wright out of the face of the valve . Back then i had a semi and i use to buy my oil in a 55 gal drum and i figured that if it was good enough for the cumming it was good enough for the farmall, NOT .

A few years ago that was true. Diesel oil had a very high ash level (in IH oil it was over 3X higher than their low ash "gas engine" oil). With the goverment mandated Ultra-low-sulfur diesel and the current crop of diesel oils to maatch the ash level is as low (lower?) as it is with "gas engine" oil.

Using "diesel oil" in a gas tractor in 2005 and before was hard on those old engines - especially the ones worked hard.

That being said most quality gas motor oils are low ash (and have been for years) - some are just lower than others. I know Castrol GTX 10w-30 has a lower ash content than IH's "low ash oil".

Thanks for that info. I wonder if that Auto Gold oil I mentioned will protect my valve tappets. Don't have the API classification off-hand.

Unless you have an radical cam that's putting a very high load on your lifters it's not needed. Where this comes into play is with older high performance engines, or older engines that have been modified to high performance specs. Most of the need for zinc additive is in the break in period anyway. Once the metal surfaces are properly "treated" the need for additives is greatly reduced or eliminated on engines except for the really high performance models.

From the people that seem to know:

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/flat_tappet_cam_tech/viewall.html

CENEX has a low ash engine oil called NGEO 2000. I dont know if it is to be used for your situation, as I know nothing about it. After much schooling in the early 1970's I do know--- Use true low ash oil in the old IHC gassers or expect engine problems

(quoted from post at 22:01:38 11/20/11) I know I need a low-soot oil for my 666 gasser to prevent valve build-up. I can't find specs on Cenex "Auto Gold" but it says its made for all gas engines INCLUDING propane. Do I need to worry about it having the right additives for my flat-tappet engine?

Click to expand...

Low ash oil?
Shell Rotella T1 which is rated CF-2 for the two stroke Detroit Diesel series.

(quoted from post at 22:01:38 11/20/11) I know I need a low-soot oil for my 666 gasser to prevent valve build-up. I can't find specs on Cenex "Auto Gold" but it says its made for all gas engines INCLUDING propane. Do I need to worry about it having the right additives for my flat-tappet engine?

Click to expand...

Low ash oil?
Shell Rotella T1 which is rated CF-2 for the two stroke Detroit Diesel series.

(quoted from post at 22:39:33 11/20/11) For those of us in the cheap seats, how does diesel oil burn 2 exhaust valves on a gasser?
AaronSEIA

Click to expand...

Like the Tractor Vet has posted, the problem is limited to the 460/560 and newer engines of that type. The burned exhaust valve problem is caused by deposits on the valve stems. Oil coming down the guides gets cooked on the lower part of the stem. As long as the engine remains under a fairly steady load there will be no problems. If the valve stem temperatures stay somewhat constant the motion on the stem in the guide will be enough to keep the deposits from building up to a point where they cause the valve to stick open. The problem occurs when the engine is placed under a greater load and the stem temperature go up and cause the stem to expand. When that happens the valve starts to get tight and if it sticks open it will allow the hot combustion gases to leak past the face and seat. The resulting leakage acts just like a cutting torch and that is just what the burned valve looks like.

To correct this problem IH engineers changed the valve stem seals to cut down on the amount of oil going down the valve stems. They also changed the valves to a Stelite faced type to present a harder surface. Both of those actions helped but did not eliminate the problem. In fact sometimes you will see a valve where the valve face is still intact but the valve is burned out under neath the Stelite facing.

This problem was discussed at on of the IH training classes I attended. We were told that once IH developed their No 1 diesel oil the problems got much worse for the gas engines since they were trying to have just one oil for all their engines. When doing testing on the gas engines they were having valve problems show up in as little as 100 - 300 hours on new engines. Once they switched to Low Ash (0.50% ash content) they engines were able to pass 1000 hours without valve problems.