I"ve often thought about getting a PTO generator, but the thought of my 83 h.p. tractor laboring away at 540 PTO speed to produce 13,000 watts concerns me. Why could not the tractor PTO be attached to a gearbox that increases the RPM yet doesnt require the tractor to run at 540 RPM speed?(for brief, emergency situations. That kind of output would require what, maybe 20 h.p.? The tractor would probably be running just above idle. Yet, I dont see this configuration commercially, what am I missing?
- Thread starter JBMac
- Start date
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
How much are you willing to pay extra in equipment to save $5 every day the power is off?
Bob Bancroft
Well-known Member
- Location
- Aurora NY
Doesn't your tractor have 1000 RPM PTO capability? That's the answer.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
Don't know what the tractor is, but on some tractors the governor isn't as responsive at slower speeds. On other tractors it's very respnsive at part speed. When something big kicks in and makes the generator pull harder you want the tractor to maintain it's speed. At 540 speed the governor is going to be about as responsitive as it's ever going to be. Jim
elmersooner
Member
my friend had a homemade job that was hooked into a 9 inch ford rearend--worked pretty good. the pto went to the axle end and the yoke powered the generator. southern engineered but it worked like a charm--ran power for my friends hunting cabin for about 5 years until he paid for the electric company to run a line.
Just a little story about generators. Power was out my neighbor had a 37 K generator. We put it on a 1370 Case that had just a 1000 rpm pto. Just revved it up till we had 130 Volts on each leg. Next day needed to grind feed. He has a automatic mix mill.Grinds with about a 7 hp electric motor. then a mixer don't know the hp. then to a blower another 7 to 10 hp motor plus other assorted motors running small augers. Plus the fans on 4 buildings. Bottom line wouldn't run the Mix-mill. Took a long time to figure it out, but the pto in the 1370 was slipping. Put a 806 IHC on the generator, Yes we used the 540 shaft and it pulled it fine. That 1370 had pulled a 15ft Bush Hog before, and did also that summer. I guess at that slow speed didn't have enough hyd pressure on the pto clutch. Vic
Remember even though your big tractor is running a near full throttle it is only pulling the load the generator puts on it. Or to put it another way running wide open with no load or partial load won't use as much fuel as if you're plowing. Also consider that generators take some torque when spun at full load.
mazemeister
Member
we have a 25KW pto generator that powers the whole farm when the grid is out. we usually run it on an 806 with a 1000/540 pto adaptor, which works out to run the engine around 1100 rpm to get 60 Hz. the 806 has a pretty good governor at that speed, but not as good as at 2100. if the loads are fairly constant it works ok. if we run it on the 540 at rated engine speed it hardly even knows the generator is back there and holds the speed right there all day long. it will use a LITTLE more fuel at rated speed, but not as much more as you might think.
Doug in Illinois
Member
I doubt you can find one, I need to find one for my KUHN FC300G, but the gear box can be swapped from 540 to 1000 by just turning it around and reversing the PTO shaft.
It has splines for both right on the pumpkin.
The splines I need to be able to run mine on the 540 PTO tractor are messed up on the pumpkin, so am committed to just running it on the 1000 RPM IH1066 side.
Otherwise, this has been brought up on several other different forums at least as far back as 2007. Not just YT.
You could try to "build" one if you are a good machinist. You would need to weld up a frame to mount 2 pillow block bearings at the top and 2 at the bottom, with a shaft through each. Figure out just how much speed "increase" you need. Idle speed won't work well.
Then get the proper size sprockets to run a short roller chain between the two, meaning both the bearings and the shafts. Plus the PTO hookup.
None of that stuff is cheap.
You are then still left with figuring out how to secure this framework from "flipping" over under a load.
I think that is the main reason you don't find this already for sale. It needs to be short, stout, and not flip over. DOUG
It has splines for both right on the pumpkin.
The splines I need to be able to run mine on the 540 PTO tractor are messed up on the pumpkin, so am committed to just running it on the 1000 RPM IH1066 side.
Otherwise, this has been brought up on several other different forums at least as far back as 2007. Not just YT.
You could try to "build" one if you are a good machinist. You would need to weld up a frame to mount 2 pillow block bearings at the top and 2 at the bottom, with a shaft through each. Figure out just how much speed "increase" you need. Idle speed won't work well.
Then get the proper size sprockets to run a short roller chain between the two, meaning both the bearings and the shafts. Plus the PTO hookup.
None of that stuff is cheap.
You are then still left with figuring out how to secure this framework from "flipping" over under a load.
I think that is the main reason you don't find this already for sale. It needs to be short, stout, and not flip over. DOUG
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Agreed. Vic was very likely running the generator way below 60Hz. No wonder nothing would start and run.
Swede in IOWA
Member
I have a 25KW generator with a 540 gearbox. I use the 1000 rpm shaft on my MF1135 with 1000 to 540 adapter. Tractor runs about 1100 engine rpm holds very steady voltage and cycles. Swede
Why would a 83 horse tractor be "laboring" at PTO speed hooked to a 13KW generator? Ought to be just the opposite. Should be turning high RPMs and hardly working at all. When I hook my 17KW PTO generator to a 28 horse tractor - it still doesn't labor unless a real high demand gets put on the generator.
If you just don't like the high RPMs, sounds like you ought to just get a direct-drive engine-driven genset.
You state this is just for "brief" use in emergencies. Isn't that the reason why some people buy PTO gensets for anyway? Hook it up, it works - but yeah - tractor runs at PTO speed instead of low RPMs and quiet like an inverter generator. No matter what you do - an 83 horse tractor hardly being worked at 20 horse is going to be a dog on fuel usage.
If you just don't like the high RPMs, sounds like you ought to just get a direct-drive engine-driven genset.
You state this is just for "brief" use in emergencies. Isn't that the reason why some people buy PTO gensets for anyway? Hook it up, it works - but yeah - tractor runs at PTO speed instead of low RPMs and quiet like an inverter generator. No matter what you do - an 83 horse tractor hardly being worked at 20 horse is going to be a dog on fuel usage.
Lots of good points. By "laboring" I meant it tongue and cheek, it certainly wouldn"t be working hard. I guess thought it could nearly idle and generate enought hp to run a stepped up gearbox. It"s a Massey Ferguson 583. That way it would be quieter, use less fuel when not under peak load, etc. I do have have a Detroit 3-53 on a crate I could use instead, just park that outside the house after a hurricane and let the peaceful drone lull us to sleep!
Lots of good points. By "laboring" I meant it tongue and cheek, it certainly wouldn"t be working hard. I guess thought it could nearly idle and generate enought hp to run a stepped up gearbox. It"s a Massey Ferguson 583. That way it would be quieter, use less fuel when not under peak load, etc. I do have have a Detroit 3-53 on a crate I could use instead, just park that outside the house after a hurricane and let the peaceful drone lull us to sleep!
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Remember that the power requirement fluctuates and you don't want the voltage and frequency to drop every time the load increases. Your engine needs to operate at a speed where it has plenty of surplus power so there is minimal droop. It's going to have the most reserve at rated rpm, which is probably very close to PTO speed. Of course your tractor is big enough that you could probably halve the speed and still have plenty of reserve, but the way you're set up now you know there won't be any droop.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
Depends on what generator you have. Some of the older ones have no regulator. Speed sets the voltage.
Lets say you COULD gear the pto up like you want, run the engine at idle, and hook it up to the silo blower 'frinstance'. Get her workin' along smooth and drop a big wad of silage down on the feed auger. What's gunna happen?
Electricity is a lot faster than the governors on your tractor.
Electricity is a lot faster than the governors on your tractor.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Figure 2hp for each Kw...
Power outage at a hatchery or dairy farm would be a disaster.Power went out at night at cage layer house .Owner didnt wake up to start the generator,thousands of chicken died.I had talked with him about having a power out alarm in his bedroom.He didnt think he needed one.Cost 40 bucks High producing cows have to be milked or else.You cant hand milk them and you wont find anyone who knows how these days.
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