Chevy 454 Clik Clak update

Thanks yall for the comments below to my Clik n Clak question, heres what I've decided.

Ya know this is a 2001 454 Vortec Chevy with only 35,000 miles because typically (till I get hold them) RV's set a lot. Soooooooo, I get to thinkin. When I bought this RV with like 33,000 miles IT DID NOT HAVE THAT INITIAL START UP TOP END CLIK CLAK (NOT any hard heavy bottom end knock) for the initial 1200 miles driving it home from Texas............But then, me, Mr Has to fix things even if not broke lol shortly thereafter changed oil and used Mobil 1 PLUS a quart of Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer and since they didnt have the regular sized tall oil filter in stock I used one of those shorter units. It was only after maybe 1000 miles AFTER that the start up clik clak appeared at which time I added a qt of Rislone (detergent and sludge and lifter cleaner snake oil) which seemed to help some, but still not perfect.

SOOOOOOOOOOO if it didnt make that noise when I bought it and drove it 1200 miles but only AFTER the Mobil 1 and Lucas Stabilizer

IMA THINKIN Im gonna drain all that oil and Lucas and Rislone and change oil with NO additives whatsoever and use a full sized heavy duty oil filter n see what happens?????

I havent decided on the oil, Syn or Regular, I'm thinking of trying Penzoil ULTRA Synthetic

That my story for now at least n Ima stickin to it unless I decide otherwise lol but no additives this time..........

John T

I think you may be onto something.

It is definitely an issue with no oil at startup. I would look at the oil filter types and see if there are check valves in some and not others. It may also be good to dump a little AFT in, run it a couple hundred miles and change.

go with 15-40 Rotella and be done with it .

Some cheap oil filters will allow the oil to drain back when setting

John, you would be hard-pressed to improve on straight Mobil One of the appropriate grade. A friend who works for the powertrain division of a major OEM told me they were having piston ring problems with one of their engines. The problems disappeared if they ran Mobil 1.

I'm not sure about your 454, but many of the GM V8s of that vintage had problems with piston slap. The noise is annoying, but other than that it isn't a real problem. It's quite possible the original owner used a thicker oil to quiet down the noise. Or maybe even used some additive like STP to thicken things up.

The Cold Start Knock comes on about that mileage. New low mileage units don't have it right off the bat. Its probably something you will have from now on. All the vortecs I have owned and now own have it.

I think I would go with regular 15w-40 no synthetic in this one. I might add the lucas yet though. Brother has boat with 454 in it. He had went with mobile-1 one time after about twice of being out the low oil pressure buzzer would go off. Changed to mercruiser oil and no trouble.

John T, I would go with Rotella 15-40 also but sub 1 quart with Marvel Mystery oil. I have used it to quieten down lifters and even free up stuck open valves. Also agree on using the CORRECT large oil filter.
Richard in NW SC

PS. I put Mobil 1 in a 350 Chevy engine once. Never again.
Richard

I used Mobil 1 oil in an overhead cam 4.0 liter engine in an effort to ensure cold weather lube flow to the engine components. I even changed it four times a year and used the manufacturers filter to make sure I was using the best and cleanest oil possible. The engine failed at 53,000 miles. I'm not sure that Mobil 1 was the best oil to be using in that engine. I now use a blended name brand oil (not Mobil 1) in my new vehicle.

Good oil filter, that wont drain back.
Mobil 1 full synthetic of recommended weight.
Piston slap is over.
Tom

1. What weight Mobil One did you use?
2. What weight does engine mfg recommend?
3. Have you called Clik N Clak?

Only thing I know about that engine is it was intended for trucks by design. Big GM engines can and do develop hyd lifter clicking and claking. It also uses a roller cam.
Only thing I know about oil is that thick oil resists impacts better than thin oil. This gets us back to questions #1 & 2. above.

1. What weight Mobil One did you use?
10W30
2. What weight does engine mfg recommend?
5W30
3. Have you called Clik N Clak?
No but get a kick out of those guys

Im going to try Penzoil Platinum Synthetic or Penzoil Ultra Synthetic 5W30 with a full sized Fram Tough Gard filter and NO Lucas Synthetic Stabilizer this time.

John T

Most likely piston slap . Pretty common . New engine run tighter tolerances and require lighter oils / 5/30 etc. ! would not recommend 15/40 unless it was a tired old motor and a last ditch try . Good filter,,I"m not a fan of Fram .

On the 2001 is the filter mounted horizontal? Having a brain fart right now, but I think the old PF25/35 was replaced with a PF1218 vertical filter, and a horizontal filter (with check valve) is a 1232 or something like that. Dont quote me though.
If you are draining back you will rattle at idle for sure.
Rick

John T, When you say a half size filter are you meaning a So-to-Speak "Pint" size filter and the regular one is the "1Qt" Size filter? IF Yes Then consider this if GM hasn't changed the filter base on their Oil Filter, Then the Premise of Bigger is better may still apply!!.....
In the 80 I had a Chevy 3/4ton, 4x4, with a 454-4speed on Propane. I got to using the "2Qt filters that are Std equipment filter on a 366/427 BB engines in our C60, C65, C70s those engines take a ton of abues in the every day operation of hauling grain and such!
I would almost never shut my pick up off from 6:30 am to 10:00am & 4:00 pm to Dark:30 and longer, tons of Idling and the Winter it was even more some days. Anyway there was trailer pulling and major stuff being done all the time. My premise was the add 1 extra qt to the total and have Double the Filtration and give my engine the best care I could.
I do not see that that would be a bad thing for your Motorhome it is a thought to consider.
Just open the box one one of yours and one for a 2qt version for a 366/427 BB if the bases are the same it is a match, You know how hard that engine works, and how Hot that area gets under the body of you Motorhome. Hope this helps!
Later,
John A.

I definitely wouldn't go to a 15-40 oil. You want a thinner oil at start-up so that it pumps into the motor faster.

If it took 1,000 miles for this to start after the oil change, I'd spin on the proper Baldwin, NAPA Gold, Wix, or Fleetguard filter and see what happens, especially if you've got a cheaper smaller filter on it.

Switch back to the 5-30, if I was wanting to use a synthetic I'd go with a 0-30 or 0-40, gets into the places it needs to be faster.

I would switch to regular oil if I was you. I once bought a new Dodge colt and immediately changed it over to Mobil 1. That engine had mechanical lifters and I found I had to adjust them every 5,000 miles or so. When I changed back to regular oil I never had to adjust them again.

John T--- I don't mean to stick my nose in your business, your a very knowledgeable guy with a lot of experience. There are a lot of good products out there, on that engine you don't need any additives, just good oil and a good filter. I'm pretty sure that engine has a roller cam and lifters, they tend to be slightly noisy. Also the 454 is noted to use some oil, they always have, completely normal. In my world from past experience I would never use a Fram filter ever again and I would also never use Pennzoil ever again. I know Pennzoil is not the same as the older stuff but just the name for me is a turn off. I have seen a lot of engines idle with the oil light on with Mobil 1, just saying what I have seen. I use only Wix filters and for oil I will use Valvoline, Shell, Chevron etc. I do use synthetic in a lot of my stuff, even my diesel tractors, the only synthetic I use is Amsoil, this is what works for me, good luck!

We will have to go on what you tell us "lifer noise on start up and goes away"...

1) are you sure its lifter noise

If so my first guess would be to confirm it has a OEM oil filter on it and OEM recommended oil...

I have ran into a few GM's that did not like other brands of filters,,, I have a customers Dodge truck that will tap you a song if anything other than a Mopar filter is installed...

Oil I would not use anything heaver than 10/30 I spec it calls for 5/30... I have serviced allot of'em that did use 15/40 with no issues tho so I do not think its a oil weight issue...

The filter would be the EZ thang to replace leave the oil in it you have now :?:

"The noise goes away" I don't think its a ware issue with valve train parts but have seen lifters clear up that were leakers on start up clear up in a few min.

Even if the noise did not go way I am headed in this direction..

After I had the correct filter and oil and knew it was a lifter/rocker tap I would install a master oil pressure gauge as a diagnostic tool....

1) I want to see what the OP is on the starter alone. You will have to disable the ignition and EFI.

If I did not have OP on the starter while cranking immediately Theirs a flag my first thought is its $uck'n air at the pick-up somewere... This would depend on what is going on @ #2

2) I want to see what the OP is while I have the tap installed at idle cold and at 2000 rpm engine cold then run for 10 min. are more... I will run it at idle for 10 min and @ 2000 rpm for 10 min... This will tell you were you need to focus... I have seen allot of valve train and timing tensioners replaced when a op GAUGE WOULD HAVE TOLD THEM TO DROP THE PAN AND INSPECT THE LOWER END FIRST...

You can Google and find know issues as EZ as anyone but before I went hunt'n I want to know what my OP gauge will tell me...

This is a few saved repairs I have had with lifter noise...

On cold start up Or after 2 To 3 Hr set,I have lifter noise like they are bleed down. With manual op gauge hooked up it takes 10 sec. for oil pressure to start to rise. Then will quickly rise to 65psi. @ idle cold. I have no lower bearing noise. At idle hot Oil pressure is 15psi hot and 50psi at 1500 rpm.If you run engine at 2000 rpm for a few min. and come back to idle Lifer noise will return for about 20 to 30 sec. I have run at 2000rpm on lift for 30min. and oil pressure will hold @50psi. Engine is as clean or as clean as a new in the valve covers, no varnish or sludge. Oil filter has a check valve (have tried AC and purolator filters..

The fix...

When I Removed oil pan to check lower end I had to remove oil pick up screen to remove oil pan gasket. when I pulled the screen down I saw the problem. The gasket had slipped Between the block and p/u screen, It was sucking air. I checked bearings anyway (as I always do if I am going their with OP are noise issues I check ALL of THEM not one are two of the EZ ones ALL of them. Its time and money WELL spent) and they were ok. The lower end and pan were as clean as new, when I restarted engine I had instant oil pressure and no lifter noise. 70psi cold and 45psi hot @ idle. One more interesting comment Before repair cranking OP. 0psi and after repair 20psi. This is with ignition disabled. After I let it set for a day and restarted cold their was a slight ticking noise from lifters but cleared up in a few seconds. I would consider this normal with 100K. I had three replies and they all said lifters worn,,, Aerated oil was problem.


The other one I had that had lifter noise that would go away...

It passed all The OP test crank'n and run'n,,, I removed the pan and installed a external oil tank I could inject oil into the engine under pressure. I was looking for a massive leak oil leak somewhere up high. I controlled the UP to 30PSI all I could tell was lots of oil was coming somewhere above the cam but not from the cam bearings. I removed the intake and the lifters were bleeding a excessive amount of oil from around the center to body,,, A new set of lifters fixed it...

I have a 1988 Motorhome with the 454. I tried Mobil 1 oil but switched to Shell Rotella 15/40 with a bottle of Lucas because of the cost for an oil change. Mine is flat lifter vs. rollers in the later engines. I always run Wix 2 qt. filter and cut it open at oil changes. I have never found any unusual junk in it.

The engineering department where I retired from tested several brands of oils and filters. Fram came out very near the bottom in all categories.

I read the replies; a lot of good info there. The 454 is often a noisier engine than the small block Chevy. 10w30 should take care of your problems as much as 15w40. The 15w40 will also take some gas milage away. The diference between 5w30 and 10w30 is mostly in the ratings you can see listed on the container. A roller cam engine should do fine with the 5w30. A flat tappet engine should have the 10w30. For more info on this last topic go to Google.

John. you don't need me to tell you that you will never know the answer if you change two things at once. Do the filter first, it will not get dirty just trying it out enough to see if it makes the difference. If that doesn't fix it then I doubt the oil change will either.

Heres what I found on using Rotella 15/40 oil in my hi mileage Ford F150 v8.351 ci.Changed the oil in early Dec.On start up I had a lot of noise and erratic oil pressure.Never had that before.I found info that said Rotella had a cold pour point like 30 wt oil..Now the owners manual says Rotella 15/40 is ok above 30 degrees.After several rappy starts I dumped the 15/40 and put in Chevron 10/30.Noise and erratic oil pressure gone.Had the same experience with a hi mileage Mercury.I cant see how the vertical oil filter could drain back.I suspect the oil pump drains back and has a hard time pulling cold oil thru the pump screen.On my Ford 640 the horizontal filter can drain back. The oil pump has to refill the filter can before you see oil pressure on the gauge. As for MMO it is loaded with solvent.I might put it in an old tractor that is pumping oil.Never in a modern engine because of the high solvent content.I looked up the the data sheet on Rislone.It says petroleum distillates.That could mean light oil,diesel,kerosene, mineral spirits.I note that some posters are so full of themselves they could never be wrong.I learned that I cant use 15/40 oil in my truck.

it's hard to tell, I got a 2010 Toyota 4Runner that used 0W-20 synthetic. When new the dealer was the only place you could get it. Engine runs good and now has 77K on it. It always has had just a little valve train noise. Last oil change went to local Pennzoil - they apologized for the $90 but I told them I would rather stand around there for 20 minutes than sit around a dealership for three hours. On the Pennzoil 0W-20 it runs better, quieter, cooler (I pull a boat with) than ever before. Who knows the mystery of love anyway???