- Thread starter David G
- Start date
johnwayne360
Member
Now all gasoline in the pipeline is 85 octane. So something has to be added to get it to saleable 87 octane. Local station here quit selling 89 octane. Now sell 87 with 10% ethanol and premium gas. Im sure my gas mileage will go down.
Yes, they get more gallons per barrel of 85, then add 'something' to bring it up to whatever level they want to sell for grades.
With corn prices falling dramatically, and ethanol futures down, gas prices should lower soon.
Pending international and national politics, of course....
Paul
With corn prices falling dramatically, and ethanol futures down, gas prices should lower soon.
Pending international and national politics, of course....
Paul
Indiana Ken
Well-known Member
It was my understanding that "most" gasoline was being refined to 84 and 91 octane levels. The big deal with the lower octane (84) is that it is cheaper to produce, as another poster noted. Also, ethanol is cheaper than gasoline on the commodities market so adding ethanol gets you 87 octane - very cost effective. IMHO, this is the best kept secret in the oil business.
84 + 10% ethanol = 87 octane.
84 + a splash of 91 + 10% ethanol = 89 octane.
91 + 10% ethanol = 93 octane.
For ethanol free gasoline:
84 + a splash of 91 = 87 octane
84 + 91 = 89 octane.
91 = 91 octane.
I have seen 93 octane ethanol free gasoline and have always been puzzled if that is a special run truck load or what...? The Renewable Fuel Act passed back in 2007 required a minimum number of gallons ethanol shall be blended per year. The number increased over the years however the petroleum industry has blended far in excess of the minimum requirements. If they have met the minimum they do not have to blend additional ethanol. OR - perhaps they feel there is a market for non-ethanol gasoline and have decided to simply pay the fines.
Perhaps someone else closer to the industry can comment.
according to local small engine shop who told me he had tested several so called ethanol free gasolines for ethanol content said they all contained ethanol just at % rates that didn't require them to reveal the blend rate,that was after I was told for the thousandth time how many problems it caused ,my reply to him was the cry baby manufacturer's of inferior grade material used to manufacture carburetors need to correct their problem, because ethanol blends are the standard fuel used today and that it wasn't a mystical technology to use ethanol, brazil has been doing it sense the so called fuel shortage of the early 70's put them in a bad situation
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Federal government has never required ethanol to be added to gas, with the exception of those areas where oxygenated fuel is required. Mandatory ethanol is normally a state requirement.
Don't believe what it says on the pumps. Many states don't require pumps to be labeled when fuel contains ethanol. Check the fuel yourself if you don't want ethanol; all you need is a mayonnaise jar and a grease pencil.
Don't believe what it says on the pumps. Many states don't require pumps to be labeled when fuel contains ethanol. Check the fuel yourself if you don't want ethanol; all you need is a mayonnaise jar and a grease pencil.
GBS, thats my pet peeve too.
10% Ethanol blend gas has been around since the 70's. The car co's licked the ethanol compatibility problens in 2 years, while 40 years later, the small engine builders are still whining instead of fixing the problems considering that atleast E10 is pretty much everywhere, if an engine does not say it will take atleast 10%E, I leave it in the store.
In my state(North Dakota) we are in that band of north to south states (ND to Texas) where Ethanol is not mandated, we have always had 87 octane E0, 90 octane E10 avalible, now also with E15,E30,E85.
The government has pushed the oil co's to sell more Ethanol to meet the RFS (renuable Fuel Standard)mandate, so we have or will soon have Ethanol in all gasoline.
The pipelines that supply our area will no longer ship(since the 14th of last month they say) Ethanol free(E0), they will ship crappy 84 octane gas to be blended with enough Ethanol to meet the minimum 87 octane standard. A few places have the new 84 octane gas(labled as 87 octane with 10% E), some stations still have the old E0 87 octane gas in their tanks, but that cant last muck longer. Have not used much of the 84 octane blended with E to make 87 octane yet, so I cant comment about performance or economy with it.
I have always had good performance and economy with the 90 octane E10, so I hope the 87 octane E10 is not much or any worse.
10% Ethanol blend gas has been around since the 70's. The car co's licked the ethanol compatibility problens in 2 years, while 40 years later, the small engine builders are still whining instead of fixing the problems considering that atleast E10 is pretty much everywhere, if an engine does not say it will take atleast 10%E, I leave it in the store.
In my state(North Dakota) we are in that band of north to south states (ND to Texas) where Ethanol is not mandated, we have always had 87 octane E0, 90 octane E10 avalible, now also with E15,E30,E85.
The government has pushed the oil co's to sell more Ethanol to meet the RFS (renuable Fuel Standard)mandate, so we have or will soon have Ethanol in all gasoline.
The pipelines that supply our area will no longer ship(since the 14th of last month they say) Ethanol free(E0), they will ship crappy 84 octane gas to be blended with enough Ethanol to meet the minimum 87 octane standard. A few places have the new 84 octane gas(labled as 87 octane with 10% E), some stations still have the old E0 87 octane gas in their tanks, but that cant last muck longer. Have not used much of the 84 octane blended with E to make 87 octane yet, so I cant comment about performance or economy with it.
I have always had good performance and economy with the 90 octane E10, so I hope the 87 octane E10 is not much or any worse.
john in la
Well-known Member
[i:654c4848f0]Federal government has never required ethanol to be added to gas, with the exception of those areas where oxygenated fuel is required. Mandatory ethanol is normally a state requirement.[/i:654c4848f0]
You might ought to search and read
Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007
It not only mandates ethanol and other bio fuels; it also deals with changes in light bulbs and several other energy savings guide lines.
You might ought to search and read
Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007
It not only mandates ethanol and other bio fuels; it also deals with changes in light bulbs and several other energy savings guide lines.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
John, I did read the relevant part, Title II Section 202. It specifies the TOTAL amount of "renewable" fuel that must be produced. But as I read it, it doesn't prohibit the sale of ethanol-free gasoline. If it did, then every station which claims to sell ethanol-free fuel would be potentially in violation of federal law. (I say "potentially", because most just slap a "contains no ethanol" label on the pump and sell E10 as ethanol-free.)
Now of course the practical effect of this act is to significantly reduce the availability of ethanol-free gas. But there's no federal law that says a gas station can't sell ethanol-free fuel. And if there is enough demand for it to command a stiff price premium (say 50 percent above premium unleaded E10), I imagine gasoline distributors will find a way to deliver it. But most people don't really care, and if they do care they don't care enough to actually test to see what they're getting.
Now of course the practical effect of this act is to significantly reduce the availability of ethanol-free gas. But there's no federal law that says a gas station can't sell ethanol-free fuel. And if there is enough demand for it to command a stiff price premium (say 50 percent above premium unleaded E10), I imagine gasoline distributors will find a way to deliver it. But most people don't really care, and if they do care they don't care enough to actually test to see what they're getting.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Test it.
Indiana Ken
Well-known Member
Last fall I was shopping for a new chain saw. I had heard a lot about Stihl so I stopped by a dealer's tent at the fair. Got the no ethanol lecture and if you buy our bottle fuel we extend the warranty - I left. The local implement dealer has a large lawn and garden department had an open house. I stopped by a talked with the Stihl factory rep, I indicated I was considering a chain saw but I do not have acess to non-ethanol fuel without driving 50 + miles. I got the you will burn for eternity lecture - he was still talking as the door closed behind me.
I have two low cost Poulan chain saws, one I bought in 2002 and the other in 2008. They get the same ethanol gasoline that my other equipment gets. They have never failed to start, have never been worked on and I do not use stabil or any other snake oil. I agree with you, ethanol if it is a problem has more to do with the manufacturer than the fuel.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
My Mercury 2 cycle outboard engine is a 2002 model and rated for E10 max. Don't know how long the marine industry has toed the line. Would guess for a long time since they are international in sales.
Mark
Mark
david - or
Member
The active ingredient in STABIL is BHT (butlylated hydroxytoluene). BHT is an antioxidant and the same stuff that is used as food preservative in cookies, snack cakes, and the like.
The antioxidant properties help retard the spontaneous reaction of gasoline with the oxygen in the air during long term storage, and thus reduces the formation of break-down products such as "varnish" in fuel systems.
You may or may not need STABIL, depending on your equipment, fuel, oil, and off-season storage policies, but I would not characterize STABIL as "snake oil".
The antioxidant properties help retard the spontaneous reaction of gasoline with the oxygen in the air during long term storage, and thus reduces the formation of break-down products such as "varnish" in fuel systems.
You may or may not need STABIL, depending on your equipment, fuel, oil, and off-season storage policies, but I would not characterize STABIL as "snake oil".
40 years? Maybe in your area, but ethanol wasn't added to gasoline here in my corner of the world (IL) until the early/mid 80's and non-ethanol gasoline was still common here into the 90's.
There's no reason for new equipment to not be ethanol compatible, but it sure would be nice if they still offered non-ethanol gasoline for those that have older vehicles and equipment. It's a huge problem in the vintage car hobby.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy