Too old to continue? are tractors next?

I just received my monthly news letter from The Crane Institute of America. As a certified crane mechanic, they don't respect my retirement. Mayor Bloomberg, is pushing NY. legislation, to outlaw any cranes more than 25 years old, in NY. city. Condition has nothing to do with it. We in the industry, know that the older units used better quality steel, and superior welds, than what is currently available, Quality Inspection, is the greatest safe guard, we have, to spot fatigue of steel and components. we do a lot of magna flux, and Spot Check. I guess Bloomers knows more than we do. Just like farmers who have to replace expensive machinery, it will cost even smaller companies, prohibitive dollars off their bottom line. I sure hope the Bloomberg virus, is not catching for old tractors

I don't know what he is now. But Bloomberg is no longer the mayor of NYC. The one they have now is even worse.

I don't know what ever became of it but, unless I am completely losing it, there was a law pending here in Michigan a few years back that would require us to put ROPS on all of our tractors. Have no idea what became of that one.

By chance do you work with the 3 in the 5 boroughs Bay Crane, NY Crane/JF Lomma and or Cranes Inc ? I did a lot of work with NY crane 10 years ago, used to do quite a bit of work with hydraulic cranes placed on the streets, worked with an engineer to do all the filings to pull necessary permits, City of New York preferred tower cranes as they are within the perimeter or building footprint, making it a real pain to get permits, been through that many times.

I was aware that this equipment was subject to controlled inspections per DOB and or DOT, the engineer I worked with was involved in many areas with these outfits as I recall.

I remember the situation in '08 with the rigging failure on the tower crane that when they were climbing it off hours, the rigging failed and the ring fell, severing all the tiebacks, and it went over, that was seemingly negligence, nylon straps etc. 2nd one not long after that was a Favco tower crane that was recently overhauled, defective or inferior work, both NY Crane jobs, that one failed structurally, believe it was something close to or under the house. I really don't know any facts, just what was reported, I tried to keep up on industry things. I felt bad for the engineer and his company that was involved with the permit filings, he got dragged into huge mess. Theres a lot to these things, and its nothing to fool with, I've done a lot of erecting and have loaded a lot of materials into new building jobs off both tower, hydraulic and crawler cranes, what you guys do to insure they are safe is paramount, when you realize what you are working under and around.

I was a few blocks away in '99 when a crawler collapsed on 6th avenue. It was a Turner job, 30 story reinforced concrete, residential structure. It was a Manitowoc 4100 or 777, one of those or similar size, on a derrick and it was at the end of its job, superstructure was done. Hurricane Floyd if I recall correctly, had just passed, it had the tower/mast and luffing jib configuration, quite a bit of "stick" out, but was folded up and lashed down for the storm. When the operator powered it up, they had not removed the lashing, so it was still secured and he literally collapsed it onto itself, the mast and jib went over backwards, a local #608 carpenter got caught under it, apparently pushing a pedestrian out of the way, he lost his life to save another. I ran over and saw this entangled steel and knew someone was under it, what a mess, its a sound you never forget. It seems there were always accidents, DOB and DOT had their hands full with dealing with it, can't say I could agree or not, about the stringent requirements getting stricter, NY Crane had older units on the job I used lots of them, Bay and Cranes Inc always had late model units, seemed they ran almost new equipment all the time, huge expense to own that kind of equipment.

Some shots from jobs I did back then.

It would be highly unusual for a politician to get something right anyway.

here is my take: the govment is trying to create economic flow by forcing the public to constantly buy new. Baby seats was just a beginning. It"s all about safety or better gas milage. And, manufacturers may be in on the scam since they will be doing the selling. Once again, time to vote all the bums out.

You really think that they are going to elect anyone not approved by Bloomberg anytime soon? You and I could live a dozen lifetimes apiece on what he's got and have money left over.

In my career as a pipe welder, by far the most know nothing useless construction manager was Turner at the Pfizer site in Ann Arbor, MI

Turner is a very large international firm and I am sure with all that volume, you will get less than desirable people on the job. I've had my dealings with some lets just say "interesting" people out of the NY office, never fails. One thing I did not like at all, when I was on the contracting side, was they would push hard to to change orders, a hook and bait scenario, then they'd put a clean up superintendent on the job towards the end,somehow the change orders get lost or you are not entitled, for a contractor it could be a significant loss, claim or legal battle, arbitration, mediation and or litigation. There are all kinds of "Turner'isms" for sure, it does happen, I was on one job and I had a pair of superintendents at each others throat over ceiling access panels, left on a friday and told them, we will be installing them as per shop drawings, contract drawings, but I said this super said these are the changes, the other disagreed, well fellas, they go in monday, have a nice weekend, this kinda crap I don't deal with, better be in writing and legitimate. The one super was thrown off the job, the weekly meetings were profane language infused confrontations, insulting and the exhibition of the most unprofessional behavior I have ever seen on a jobsite, you would expect so much more from a annual multi billion dollar operation. Not always the case, you will get just as many good people on the jobs, but every job is different.

Thats kind of my understanding as well. There's an old saying, "...made their beds, now sleep in...".

Mark

I have no love for Turner, most of their jobs are a PIA for me to work on.

All they have to do is emphasize the word "safety" and the public will be all for it whether it makes sense or not.

I don't have any certificates certifying me to work on them, but I have worked on quite a few different types and brands of cranes for over 15 years, so I think I am pretty well qualified. That said, your right in the older cranes being so much better than the new ones in so many ways. Granted the new ones have all the fancy electronics, etc, but I dare any idiotic politician to show me a real reduction in accidents, etc brought about by all the fancy electronics and schooling, over the old guys that could lift anything 'by the seat of their pants'. They all used the most powerful computer in the world, the human brain, and did it well for ALOT of years.

That said seeing idiots setting on their fat butts behind a desk making/proposing rules about things they know nothing about makes me sick. The way I see it though 'WE THE PEOPLE' really do control those idiots so, whether anyone believes it or not. I say that because there will be plenty of work available to any crane operator/owner/contractor, big or small outside NYC. That being the case IF such a rule were to pass, all it would take is for those in the industry to refuse to work in the city to get the whole deal thrown out. Seriously, if no one would work there, then nothing would get done, by anyone. Think about what would happen then, you'd have other several unions get involved because their members have little to no work, you'd have the corporations with the money to build not wanting to deal with the hassle, and on, and on. The repercussions would be HUGE, and I don't know of a politician out there, even Bloomberg, who could handle it. Remember even with all his billions he has yet to bowl over us legal gun owners, like he thought he would....and if you put the full weigh and opinion of all those mentioned previously into defeating a cause, then it won't stand a chance.....The problem is getting enough folks on board and willing to lose a million or two in order to save themselves millions more.....unfortunately there will always be one in the bunch that can't get their mind off the first million and ruin it for everyone.......

No Billy NY, I haven't worked any farther east, than Alton Il. Most of my 30 years with the Boeing Co. has been on the west coast, except for 18 mos. at St Louis, two of us inspectors, spent 18 mos. at The facility there, inspecting and buying off new units, for the Co. after Boeing ended up with McDonald Douglas. After retiring from Boeing, I was involved in consultation, at the Port of Tacoma, and was successful in placing two ex boeing crane tech's on the Port's maintence crew. Both guys were trained by me, and are excelent crane tech's, My eye sight was failing, toward the last two years, and I would have Scott or Stan, check my work. They were loyal, and kept it to their selves, till I could work out my retirement. In good conscience I had to retire myself. I hope that they feel paid back. I reread the crane article that I refered to, and it cited Mayor Bloomberg, and Bldg. Comisioner Robert D LiMandri, as the people announcing the new legislation, on Dec. 10 2013. I guess that Bloomers was still Mayor, at that time.

It's old news that companies lobby to get laws/codes passed to create new or expanded markets for their products. Some companies have well funded departments that do nothing but.

Sounds like a great career, I am familiar with the importance having been involved with the use of this kind of lifting equipment, thought you may have been in the NY metro area, DeBlasio I am not familiar with. Bloomberg I did not care for, I am glad his overextended term is done.

I have not heard of any recent problems, but having worked with DOB and DOT, it was always a hurdle to get through on any job that you needed to place a crane on the street, like the first photo. That was my last day on the job, at that point I had enough of it, having been designated the superintendent on the technical responsibility report for each job, always with high pressure from the construction manager/general contractor who can be completely unreasonable with these super compressed schedules. Then add incompetent or pompous jerks that represent them on the job like this one with that 300 ton Demag that I was forced to place on the street without getting DOT approval, partly because of the sales jerk who sold them this job from our company did not align the lead time with the manufacturer of our materials, (giant windows) so that they could be delivered while the crawler crane was on site, always a pain when you have to use the GC's crane, but would have go the job loaded without so much risk. The super on this job from the CM/GC, was one the worst I have ever dealt with, that day I paid him back nicely, blocked off an adjacent building got him in hot water, he came after me and I looked him square in the eye, and said I could care less, you want a piece of me, I'll gladly accommodate you right now, here in the street, he got in my face and I warned him, touch me, you will regret it, (lets just say I can back that up) I said you think this is easy, then you do it, otherwise get out of my face, I have a job to do and I have no time for distractions when working with a crane. I always directed our cranes on site with signals or 2 way radio. I called him super mario, given his ethnicity, just another dig to p^ss him off. The masonry foreman whom I worked with on other jobs, was laughing his @ss off, having watched the entire thing. I had hoped to p^ss him off so he would take a swipe at me, instead he ran off like a little girl into a tirade of anger and rage, called our company, just went off the deep end, I finished the day out, safely, our company was cited heavily by DOT, I am sure it cost a lot of money, I met with the partners, and we mutually agreed our relationship was done. I had enough of this aggravation with idiots. I will not be designated as a superintendent on TR-1 form and have to work under these circumstances, this is how people get killed and accidents happen. CM/GC was all over me about getting the crane on site, the materials into the building, trying to make me look bad, saying I was behind, the date I gave them to do it was not good enough, you have to make it sooner, it put unimaginable stress on me, so I responded, you want the crane, I'll send it, no permits nothingm NY Crane would do that, and they did for me on another job. I told that super, you want the windows, I'll bury this job with windows, you sure you want that, you absolutely sure??? So I did what I could, called the manufacturer in Wausau, Wisconsin, told them to send everything at once, went to another job at 3am moved a forklift to this job when it all arrived, tractor trailers lined up, 300 ton demag, I literally shut the job down on both sides, restricting access, I had everything tied up. I even made sure to p^ss off the worthless operating engineer Master Mechanic on the site too, by hiring an operating engineer to run the forklift without going to the union hall, just happens the guy I brought in was an arch enemy, perfect !!! I sure had a great ability to ignite a volatile situation in those days. So in essence, I did make their unreasonable deadline or date, when I did, they condemned me for it, of course where I placed that crane, blocking the neighboring buildings underground garage, was the icing on the cake, CM/GC took a lot of flak for that, and I did it intentionally, I really hated my job at that point, I was glad to leave this chaos. It was getting too unsafe and what happened in 2008 with the first tower crane that went over was likely under the same circumstances, some CM/GC being pushy, riggers cut corners tried to pick the entire ring and used nylon straps, when I believe it should have been appropriate wire rope, whatever the facts are, I do know they were trying to save time, it cost 7 peoples lives if I recall. In the photo you can see I was right behind the masonry by 1 floor which is the norm. You have to have room to work, glad I never had to go back to that job.

I tried not to mention Bloombergs gun agenda, I have no use for that, Giuliani was a decent guy, no matter who takes the position, eventually they get ruined or it seems so. He did a lot of good things, and was not afraid of any repercussions with organized crime, and what he did was visible, got rid of the sqeegee-men, those want to wash your windshield, he broke up corruption in the Fulton fish market, even took on the feast of St Gennaro, lets just say you need to have "a pair" doing things like that. He removed large groups of homeless, though I am not sure what that entailed, or how they were helped or relocated, just saw a wheel loader clearing a pier taken over by them. What he did was at least visible and he had no gun agenda, enough said.

I had a lot of excellent operating engineers and associate trades on my jobs, and let me say that besides one or 2, these guys were excellent, they are licensed and WILL NOT take chances by putting themselves at risk, if there were any situations that arose from new legislation that was any kind of problem they would be the first to stand up. There was no way I could have kept my jobs safe, profitable and productive without top notch operators, the construction unions are different, it takes a good superintendent, foreman to make it work. If I was dissatisfied with an operator, even with the union agreement, even if a company man with the crane outfit, I can and have removed them from my jobs even if it takes losing 1 day erection, send the crane back, then order it back out again. Its a tight group in that area, they take pride in what they do, especially safety. Union does cost more, but the developers and owners make unreal profits on these buildings regardless, it is nice to have highly skilled operators and trades, I have done some non union work with trades that were just as skilled and safe, conscientious too, those operators have saved our bacon more than once when it comes to safety, and the equipment they are assigned too.

I have more faith in proven tech built before the 1990s,, and even more faith in equipment built before 1975 ,,, this modern garbage is nuthin more than planned obsolescence by the communistic unions