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free standing masonary chimney in shop

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RalphWD45

Well-known Member
I have a 3 sided shop bldg., 36'x30', with dirt floor. It has 3 12' bays, which I will eventualy get around to pouring a floor, probably one bay at a time. I put up track under the front eve, and am in the process of building 3 sliding doors to enclose the front. When the weather warms up some, I would like to build a masonary chimney in the middle of the center bay, for a wood stove. I am sure that a concrete base has to be poured first, but don't know how big to make it, and how deep. The chimney won't be over 25 ft tall. I have never seen the chimney materials, nor watched one being built!, however I am imagining rectangle concrete blocks, with a 8" hole in the center, that just stack up , with morter between. Is this accurate? Some one please enlighten me!
 
You need more then just the cement blocks you also need the liner. Just block will soak up creosote and cause all sorts of problems over the years. They make a tile that is made just for what your doing that you stack as you build up wards. As for base yep you need one and say frost line in your area is 18 inches go down at least 24 inches with a foundation then a slab that is around 6 inches or more with lots of re-bar etc.
 
I have built some masonry chimneys in the past, but never again. I am thoroughly convinced that stainless metalbestos style are much better. For one thing you don't need a foundation, and they don't use up any floor space. I think you get better draft too. The one little problem when you use a modern high efficiency wood burner like we have, the soot comes right down onto the smoke shelf. You have to take the stove apart somewhat to clean it out. But if you have good dry wood and burn it hot there isn't hardly any creosote.
 
Old has hit the main points of a masonry chimney. I will suggest a triple wall stainless pipe to get it done and save money and time. If you are a mason ignore this post and put a 20" deep by 1' larger than stove and apron footer into the spot. (I assume it is not in the center of the bay, but at the far end!)
The triple wall heats well and reduces creosote buildup from cold masonry. Cheaper by about 400% compared to masonry, and safer in many ways.
Jim
 
Ralph, don't forget to install a chimney cleanout door near the bottom. I always put the cleanout door in the second block above the floor, then fill the first block with concrete. You can buy the ready-made doors and tile at your local block dealer. Like Old said - you should use clay chimney tile in the center, with chimney blocks around it. I always switch over to brick just below the roof, and continue brick on up, leaving about 2 inches of tile exposed at the top. That 2 or 3 inches of tile exposed at the top will let you install a metal cap, should you ever want to. For a regular block chimney, I made a 4'square footing, reinforced with #8 rebars, and 10 - 12 inches thick. Overkill, but that's how I did it. I'm NOT an expert, but I have built four block chimneys in my life. Larrythecornerguy, IS an expert, and he'll give you good advice. Listen to him!
 
You can't make the concrete slab to big but it can be to small and that can be a big failure if it allows the chimney to sag.
When you lay the chimney blocks the usual process is to lay 3 blocks and then put in a flue liner and lay some more blocks and then another liner.
Note it is ok to put some mortar cement between the liners it is wrong to fill the space between the liner and the blocks. That space is to created a separate , sealed space that acts like a thermos bottle and it keeps heat in and the flue liner warm to provide a draft. This also helps prevent creosote from building up and plugging the chimney. The filling of this space is one of the mistakes amateur masons make.
When your chimney reaches the desired height the flue liner should be a few inches higher that the concrete blocks and at this point a cap is put around the top of the concrete blocks and sealed against the flue to form an air tight top.
 
im not an expert at the chimney building,but your advice is spot on As far as masonry chimney goes,but I Think he should check out the triple wall stainless first,,,just my 02 cents,,
 
I put one on the outside of the house quite a few year's back about 25 ft. tall. I made the base approx. 30 in. x 30 in. by 18 in. thick and below frost line. It was not big enough as the top of the chimney would pull away from the top of the house about 4-5 in. in real dry weather and go back when moist. You might not have that problem inside a building.
 
(quoted from post at 23:15:25 02/07/14) I have a 3 sided shop bldg., 36'x30', with dirt floor. It has 3 12' bays, which I will eventualy get around to pouring a floor, probably one bay at a time. I put up track under the front eve, and am in the process of building 3 sliding doors to enclose the front. When the weather warms up some, I would like to build a masonary chimney in the middle of the center bay, for a wood stove. I am sure that a concrete base has to be poured first, but don't know how big to make it, and how deep. The chimney won't be over 25 ft tall. I have never seen the chimney materials, nor watched one being built!, however I am imagining rectangle concrete blocks, with a 8" hole in the center, that just stack up , with morter between. Is this accurate? Some one please enlighten me!
Click to expand...
70 or 80 years ago they sometimes used 4 concrete blocks that each had a 1/4 round radius. the 4 blocks together would have an 8" hole for a flue.
Concrete blocks make lousy flues. If you can even find those blocks you should put a stainless liner in it. If you want a masonry chimney use clay flue liners. Better yet use a triple wall stainless chimney. That should be cheaper than hiring someone to build a masonry chimney. Don't try to build one yourself if you don't know what you're doing! Take the money you save by using the triple wall chimney and put it towards some overhead doors.
 
So far, I have received 8 replies, and have printed them out, to keep. This was the kind of stuff, that I needed, to be able to figure out what to do. Old and others, have pretty well, answered my original questions on the masonary chimney. Now I am wondering what supports the other kind of chimney, called metalbestos? apparently it is less labor, and materials.This will not sit next to a wall, but be at one side of the center bay, which will also have the workbench close, I will be loosing one bay, for heat, work bench, welder, and table saw. Oh also compressor, and 2 roll away tool chests. Each bay is 12'x30'.
 
My recommendation would be to forget about the masonry chimney and use a double wall insulated chimney made by Selkirk Metalbestos in Canada and sold by most lumber yards. Double wall insulated works on the principal of keeping the smoke warm so the creosote doesn't condense inside the chimney on the walls of the chimney. Triple wall works by cooling the smoke so the heat doesn't get through the chimney to ignite wood around it. More prone to creosote buildup. With this type of chimney you can start at the bottom of the trusses and go up.
I put a metalbestos chimney in my fil's house and when the chimney was cleaned there was never any creosote in the chimney, but the uninsulated cap would almost fill solid but one could stand on the ground and beat it off with a long stick.
The only disadvantage is the price,it's expensive.
metalbestos
 
Don't even consider a masonary chimney!!!! Too much screwing around with footing, scafolding, heavy lifting, and more heavy lifting, fo a chimney that will eventually self distruct.
You can buy a Class A SS chimney system that is suspended from your trusses and you can connect heavy wall chimney pipe to it. All you need is a ceiling support assy., several lengths of class A pipe, roof jack, weather seal, and cap, and you are in business. A one man DIY project, and these SS chimneys require far less maintainance, than masonary structures. Don't forget to pull a building permit, and get the install signed off, by the building inspector.
The pic. is of my Class A suspended chimney 15yrs old hook as of two years ago to a Royall wood/coal boiler that heats my house, celler, and tractor shop. I fired the boiler in late October, and it has been burning continuous since then.
Loren, the Acg.
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If you have normal trusses 16 or 24" oc that is adequate for the ceiling support, that is what supports the chimney. If you can position the chimney so the roof flashing fits under the ridge cap that makes one less potential leak. If it is a pole building then there may need to be some additional structure to support it. Trusses can be reinforced in place if additional strength is needed. I did that to my garage up north so I don't worry about the snow load when I am here in AZ!
 
I assume as you continue to complete the inside of your shop, you will add a ceiling and insulation. The clearances for masonry chimney will be the smallest. Also get a chimney fire in a metal chimney and you can have failure, possibly above your ceiling. Not so much with masonry. Use chimney blocks, four sided blocks with room for an 8 inch flue liner. My mason used refractory cement for the mortor between cly tiles. A masonry chimney is expensive. But the best usually is. gobble
 
We used triple wall stainless chimney, made by Ameritech. They come in 3ft sections. Ours sits on the ceiling joists, on a metal support also made by Ameritech. We used two sections to get through the roof, and above. We have a wood stove in shop and use four sections of regular stove pipe to connect to the chimney. The stove and chimney are about 5 or 6 feet from wall. It was first put in in 1987 and we replaced both sections of chimney in about 2011. It is not all that expensive per section.

Garry
 
We used triple wall stainless chimney, made by Ameritech. They come in 3ft sections. Ours sits on the ceiling joists, on a metal support also made by Ameritech. We used two sections to get through the roof, and above. We have a wood stove in shop and use four sections of regular stove pipe to connect to the chimney. The stove and chimney are about 5 or 6 feet from wall. It was first put in in 1987 and we replaced both sections of chimney in about 2011. It is not all that expensive per section.

Garry
 
Dave and Loren! After reading your post's, I reckon that I will forget the masonary chimney. The Metalbestos, should work fine, and I don't have to wait till summer to build it. I can have it up by the time I get the doors hung. THANKS TO ALL WHO REPLIED. Ralph
 
I have both types of chimneys in my house for 2 fireplaces and one wood stove. Their creosote buildup and necessary cleaning are about the same.
Being in the fire dept for many years i have responded to many chimney fires.The metal pipe chimneys are far more probable to set the structure on fire as they will burn thru much more quickly, or they get red hot which is enough to ignite wood.
if the stove is left unattended for time periods i would definitely go for a masonry chimney with flue pipe
always try to place a chimney on the inside of a structure rather than the outside to reduce creosote buildup
 
Before you build the chimney check with your insurance company...alot of them will not cover a shop or it's contents if heated with a wood stove....
 
That"s what"s on my wood furnace. Even with a 6 foot horizontal run creosote is not a problem, as long as I am burning half-dry wood.

Go down where it says "optional accessories" and you"ll find wall hangers and rafter hangers for it.

If you are really worried about burn-through above a ceiling, get yourself a piece of culvert several inches larger to run it up through, another layer of steel can"t hurt any.
metalbestos at menards
 
RalphWD45,

Any reason why you want sliding doors? I have two sliding doors and each door has to 8ft doors that go each way. I would love to convert them over to overhead doors. When it snows these sliding doors can be heck to open and when it's windy it's hard to close and get them in the center anchor in the ground that holds the bottom of the doors, or when you try to open them.
 
First one I helped build was in Winfield KS back when I was around the ripe old age of 8 give or take a year or two. Funny how one can remember some things. My dad built a house that had a pair of fire places and was set up that the furnace pulled warm air off the fire place to be the air going in so took less natural gas to heat the house
 
What I did in my shop was use well casing pipe which is 6 inch in diameter and 1/4 inch thick. It has been hanging now for the past 20 years with no signs of getting thin. I got lucky years ago. A place I worked at would sell the left over cut off so I got pieces 3 foot long and just welded each piece together for my stove pipe and i works well. I also built the stove for an old boiler tank and used water heater tank as a reburner for the smoke
 
My shop is an all steel building and the way see my other post I hung the well casing is to weld it to the roof beams which are dock section type beams and also the stove it self holds a lot of the weight. Metal roof so so where it comes out of the roof it is also welded in place
 
With a SS chimney you can always move it if your plans change in a few years. Can't do that with a block chimney without a lot of work.
 
Here's my masonary chimney base in the cellar, it's 6x3 with clay liners., second is a pic in the attic, not a good pic but you can see the block. I'd do masonary, they will take a chimney fire better than any double pipe chimney. 2 houses on my road burnt with metal pipe chimneys, one burnt to the ground, the other with a zero clearance chimney burnt pretty badly. Personally I wouldent trust a steel pipe running threw my house, vs all the masonary like my chimney has around it!
a144596.jpg

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As has been mentioned some insurance companies have restrictions on wood stoves in shops, here is what I had to do to meet there standards.
The air intake had to be 24 inches above the floor.
With a low celing and a raised up stove I then had to install heat shields on the celing, a bit of a hassle but they are happy and my tractors are warm come feeding time.
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The one in my shop is just like Acg,s above. It is filled between the SS tubes with spun ceramic fiber looks like fiberglass ins but is white and you can hold a torch on it and it does NOTHING! Has been in since 1990 and cleaned three times and really didn't need it then. The other secret for ANY system is to run the chimney straight up out of the furnace. Nothing will ever accumulate on a verticle pipe if you run your stove correctly. Bends (even 45,s) are your worst enemy. Doesn't matter what chimney you have , if creasote builds up in the bends leading to the upright and catches on fire, it will melt that single pipe unless you are there to shut the air down. All I have done is dangle a broom from a rope up and down mine to get the "feathery" soot out but that's all it has ever had in it. Straight up and insulated SS through the roof is the only way to go.
 
John B! My building is a variation of post and beam, suggested by Tacoma truss co, The posts all have 45 deg. 4"x8" supports, or whatever they are called, running up at an angle to the trusses. There are only 4 trusses, running length wise, of the building.The rafters are seasoned 2x6 at 16", and span from truss to truss. The front angle braces make it impossible to use overhead doors. I have 2 sliding doors on the back of the bldg. now. using 4" wide rubber flaps, nailed on verticaly, it has sealed the back doors satisfactrly. They also butt up against black foam pipe insulation, when closed. This was a horse farm, with a tremendous amount of board corrals, screwed to 4x8 treated posts, which I took down and repurposed.
 
I've used both types. They both can work fine. Masonry is lots more expensive and lots harder to replace. I have seen homes burn with masonry chimneys. I have seen masonry installations get so hot they broke apart. I have never seen a properly installed insulated (Metalspestos) type burn through and cause a fire. I have never seen a masonry stove nearly as easy to clean as a metal one, just the nature of the beast.

Either way, I'd prefer an outdoor wood boiler!
 
I second that! My shop originally had an 11'X12' sliding door on the front. It had to be the ultimate PITA. No way to keep it relatively air tight and in the winter snow and ice on the bottom would lock it shut. I cut 2" off the bottom, and the snow and ice just piled up higher.

I finally replaced it with a 10'X10' insulated steel overhead door. Couldn't figure out why I didn't do it years before.
 
As an Insurance Inspector, I can vouch for that.

Plus, I once inspected a house where they had a wood stove with an unlined concrete block chimney. Creosote created by the chimney not running hot enough had actually permeated the concrete blocks and was running down the outside of the chimney, both inside and outside the house.

From some of the stuff I've seen cobbled together, I don't blame the insurance companies for getting nervous whenever they see a wood stove, regardless of the location, house or shop.

I recall one machine shop I inspected that had a wood stove in the center of the shop. It was actually well installed, in a steel building with triple wall SS pipe. The insurance company still made the insured remove it because it was located in a shop with the usual flammable liquids common to any automotive type shop.
 
You've recieved the pro's and con's of your woodburner flu. Determined's looks good. ACG has a very good looking installation a class A also. Someone mentioned possibly wanting to move in the future. That something to think about. Thats why this board is so helpful. Lots of experience and knowledge.We all know the addage more than one way to skin a cat. Well the decision is yours. gobble
 
I have a steel pole barn---30' x 45'. Near the center I have a wood stove w/steel 6" pipe running straight up through the roof. Also, an 8" steel pipe surrounds the 6" one, extending up through the roof and beyond. In addition, segments of tin are secured to any wood less than 18" form the pipe(s). On the far side of the bldg is a steel cabinet with fuel storage. Question:: If there was a fire---NOT RELATED TO THE USE OF THE STOVE---would the ins co refuse settlement, simply because there was a wood stove in the bldg??
 
I built a masonary chimney on the garage floor and thru the roof about 38 years ago. Ran stainless single wall from the basement woodstove thru the block wall to this chimney. Made sure the stainless was always on the upward slope, no horizontal sections. Used chimney block below the roof line and brick above. Definitely use flue liner. A the bottom of the chimney just above the garage floor I installed a cleanout which I would also strongly recommend. Didn't do any special reinforcement of the garage floor and chimney is approx. 20 ft.
 
would they??? anybody's guess. COULD they YES!!! Even if they never asked you the direct question , it is withheld pertinent information that if known would void policy.
 
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