Roofing job in progress/ Leaks

I though I had a good guy, maybe he is, but he left my job open for 1 1/2 days of perfect weather and knocked off early for Halloween. Saturday till Sunday AM, soaking rain and I've got leaks. He can out Saturday PM and put down some extra paper and I still found three new leaks. I'm worried about warped window framing, mold (since it isn't warm enough for fast drying), and putting shingles over paper with leaks. Any advise? I know how hard this type of work is and I'm shy of giving him a hard time but I've been in the trades and I made d**m sure I never left a job open with rain in the forecast.

Do you have a contract with this outfit? "Time is of the essence" Something every contractor should live by. It's highly negligent to leave a building vulnerable to damage like that. If I was a GC and this was a lower tier subcontractor, I'd hold payment, deduct/backcharge any and all applicable damages, and related cost add items attributable to their actions or in-action on the job. If you have no contract.... I hate to say it, but its your own darned fault, and I hope he has not been paid in full, ok to pay for materials once delivered, but you hold the rest until the job is completed per contract documents with all work accepted.

Now, with the moisture laden substrate, you may have to determine if its ok to continue, or will that create defective work, you can't seal moisture in weatherproofing, such as a roof, as you know, so now what, what will it take to dry out, sunny clear weather, material replacement, this guy just raised the cost of this job without a doubt.

Aside from this, I can never understand in the residential, light commercial side of this industry why this kind of crap goes on, always ends up with claims or disputes.

You are cutting him alot of slack. The roofers I know are very responsible about thses things. All I can say now is prevent mold be keeping somne moving air . Get out the fans. I have had mold issues in my home and I can only advise to nip it in the bud now.

Advice? I figured out long ago that if I want a job done right I better do it myself and learn how.

"The hireling careth not for the sheep"

While leaks may stain drywall, it's only long term repeated leaks will cause mold or problems with your windows. If the guy finishes the job soon you shouldn't have a problem. If you can't get the guy behind it I would find someone else or get a large tarp to cover your roof.

Thanks for every ones advice. I made a call and a crew is pounding nails right now so the roof should be finished today. Today, Sunday, 40's, wind, no more rain yet but wet conditions. Wednesday and Thursday were in the 70's, calm and dry. In that time I suppose someone else got their roof put on in good weather by a roofing crew who didn't think winter closing in on them meant anything. By the way, there is an out-building in the bid with a TRACTOR stall. That room leaked too. Got some rust on my old leg-vise.

I do have a good roofer. There isn't a job I've given him that he isn't done by 3:30 pm on the same day he starts. The last job had 5 roofs, including peal offs, repaired holes in 3 of the roofs, trees fell on them. One roof had 12 holes. He comes with an army. No one has to be told what to do, they just do it. No breaks, including no lunch break. If they need a drink, they better do it while working. They want to eat, they don't it working. Yet to have a leak. He's do 8 different roofs so far.

George Marsh- "No one has to be told what to do, they just do it. No breaks, including no lunch break. If they need a drink, they better do it while working."

Isn't that breaking every labor law? No breaks or time for lunch. Are they from south of the border?

The sad part is...it seems as if you condone this type of action.

Or, maybe you were kidding....if so, LOL!

Greg, I assume you subscribe to and live by your abundant Ways..and by those concepts, it is even against the Law to Discriminate on the grounds of ABILITY...

NOW, just WHICH Roofers would you REALLY want doing the work on YOUR home..???

Ron.

(quoted from post at 11:51:31 11/02/14) Advice? [b:5806932891]I figured out long ago that if I want a job done right I better do it myself and learn how.[/b:5806932891]

"The hireling careth not for the sheep"

Click to expand...

ou hit the naiI square on the head

BushogPapa- I've got no problem with someone wanting a roof installed. I too, would expect it to be leak free.

My point of contention was that the roofer had not hired enough installers to do the job(s). Therefore, he did not have enough workers to allot time for breaks.

{Hypothetical Question}
Why should I have to pay taxes(Federal Law) if this roofing contractor decides he does NOT have to follow Federal guidelines?(Labor Laws)

I had a roof done last Sunday, they were going to do it Saturday but got behind on another job. Same deal as George, six guys show up at 8am,tear off and shingle and gone by 2 pm, didn't hear any orders, everybody knew what to do, didn't take any breaks, just got it done.
Don't know if that's breaking any laws or not, never seen a gun put to anybody's head, some guys just still want to work. They did a nice job.

Greg1959,
No, they are from west central Indiana. Hard working, independent non union contractor. The boys want to work and work they do. You can't believe how fast they framed, tied in and roofed a 26x26 room addition for me. The owner of the business is the hardest working man I've ever seen. One Saturday, by himself, he did a roof over for me. No idea when he started, but was done by 11:30 am. He did a 14 square roof, cut in 4 air vents, carried the shingles on roof by himself. I would be sucking on oxygen if I just carried 42 bundles of 35 year architectural shingles to the roof, not to mention the ridge vent and starters. He makes the rest of the contractors look bad. He's also a 40 year old body builder and owns 2 exercise gyms. Has a college degree in business, so I really don't think his concerned about fair labor.
George

Those crew's from south the boarder always take long lunch breaks. Never seen one who didn't and if they work a long day they take a long supper break too. People always say there hard workers they are but they like the long breaks. I painted a house where the neighbors had their house painted by guest workers 4 of them one day I painted a similar house 2 days just me....

CGID,
Bid, what's a bid? I've known my roofer when he was a kid in high school. He does great work and is fast. I never have to worry about rain when he's on the job. My daddy said if you have to ask, you can't afford it. I call my contractor, tell him what needs to be done over the phone, what color shingles, address. We always do a cost plus contract. I pay materials, he charges me just labor. He charged me $800 labor for the Saturday job. I never asked how much it was going to cost when I wanted a room addition. He charged me $2650 for framing, removing the roof on half the old house and the 26x26 room addition. 2 guys 2 days to put the floor down and frame outside walls. One day with his army of men to remove half the shingles on house, set trusses, re-deck old house roof, cut valley rafters, and about 18 square of shingles, nailed up osb siding and cut windows and doors out. Pulled off the Job at 3:20 and all the mess in his dump truck. He has a Menards contractor card, so all the materials to build the addition was delivered for Free. His men never complained, they liked what they were doing. 2 of his men were once contractors that had $ problems. I think they didn't mind working hard and getting the hot afternoons off.

You are fortunate to have a situation like that, not everyone has that luxury.

To set the record straight, one does need to ask and one does need to get BID's. It would do this thread injustice to say that is not the case, I don't care who the customer is.

For a contractor it should be a very simple philosophy, obtain the work, maintain a backlog of signed contracts, perform and complete the work so that its acceptable, ("time is of the essence") then collect payment. Contractors may encounter customers that don't pay, just like customers may encounter contractors that fail to perform. A simple subcontract agreement, proposal, whatever formality you want to use, large or small job, at least provides you a legal binding agreement, I am aware even with a contract there could be problems, most times not, as each party knows they have agreed to something.

A customer should get a few bids, quotes, estimates or whatever you want to call it, with a detailed scope of work and payment terms. Any contractor that cannot agree to look over the job, provide a sound estimate, detailed scope of work, with acceptable payment terms is likely not worth a darn. There is a certain level of organization and business acumen a contractor must exhibit, if one looks closely enough, this will separate those who perform, and those who do the above, which started this thread. The latter are nothing but trouble, I know from being on the GC side, avoid these kinds at all costs.

You have a formal agreement, via a contract, a schedule can easily be incorporated, so both the owner and the contractor know exactly what to expect from each other.

The contractor you describe, knows the value of completing the work, having it accepted, getting paid and moving on to the next job, its the only way to succeed. I don't care what kind of problems a contractor has, you can't leave a job like a roof exposed like was described above. I may sound like a hard@ss but per what was described above is totally unacceptable, it shows 2 things, an owner who is complacent, (no insult intended here LOL!) and the contractor is failing to perform for whatever reason, ( and sure they get into a bind sometimes, I've been there many many times).

A smart contractor stays highly organized, is well prepared, thinks ahead and their standard proposal, contract agreement should reflect it.

Simple solution, add language to the contract that covers temporary protection, so that if the above happens, the contract calls for said contractor to protect the building if there is a break in the continuity of work, a weather event is on the horizon unexpectedly, or the contractor does have a legitimate conflict, needs to pull off the job for some reason. Some contractors are not all that organized or prepared. Now the cost of including temporary protection can be quantified, lump sum cost unique to the job or blanket protection, maybe its significant, the contractor has to add it as a line item for a specific job, or he's bid it so that its included, the customer should be informed of this or expect it, (not all are educated on these matters, that makes them vulnerable to bad contractors). A contract with no provision for temporary protection for work like waterproofing, roofing, exteriors etc, is lacking if there is nothing stated in regards to temporary protection, who is responsible and who pays if there is damage.

Typically, its supposed to benefit both parties, and the actual contract does not need to complicate things. Customer knows what to expect, contractor knows what to expect, and should be highly motivated once their signature is on paper, (should be without that paper LOL !)

I have a friend in the glazing business, same thing, known since middle school and his reputation to perform, aside from being overly helpful, friendly and exhibiting good faith to bid and or perform the work is beyond expectation. We always had a proposal signed if he did work for me or under me as a subcontractor, business is business.

I may not sound pro contractor at times, as a construction manager/general contractor, its the goal of that CM/GC to get the work done, so its wise to partner up with your contractors, help them anyway you can to complete their work or overcome obstacles on the job that impedes their production. It never pays to be adversarial, sometimes you have to be a hard@ss with any contractor, but its for the overall good of the job in most cases.

With the above, had I contract with the contractor involved, there would have been a stern reaction if the job stalled, meaning that morning when they did not show up, rightfully so, get on the phone and find out what is going on and why is my building left at risk of damage if it rains ??? The contractor should have notified the owner of their absence well in advance, the owner should not have to be chasing contractors around or contemplating what to do and worrying about the risks of damage because they left the job in a condition that is unacceptable. If the contractor simply called and said, listen I'll be back in 2 days to complete the job, I have a conflict, something came up, )(which happens) I'm sending 2 guys today or before it rains, to seal things up temporarily, and its done as he said, as an owner I'm happy. Don't call and not show up, means I'm all over your @ss about it, its just common courtesy.

I know a small residential guy, he builds out multi unit buildings or did for rental income and at times hired some of the work out. He knew I was into high rise building construction and asked how I deal with chasing contractors around LOL ! I said I don't LOL ! Worst case scenario on those kinds of jobs and you hate to have to go that route as it can be complicated, is to terminate for cause and utilize their bonding company with replacement contractors. Sometimes it has to be done, and I've been there numerous times on both sides of it. In that case you awarded a contract to a company that you should have avoided, and it happens with all the pre-qualification work done to determine they were acceptable.

Reason I posted all the above chatter is that so many people get burned from situations just like this on small, residential and light commercial jobs and its completely unnecessary. One of the worst I have seen in recent times was with a local beverage store, where he put an addition on, I know the owner, and wished I could have helped him before it got started, the way it unfolded was just unreal, and here is a business owner with a lot of risk at stake, get a bad contractor involved, becomes a mess in no time.

As I always say, "Inspect Your Expect" when it comes to contractors.

Without personal contacts like yours all I can do is ask around, bring a few roofers out, see who I like (for what ever reason) and choose one. They all offer a price and that is the origin of the bid. A hail-storm passed by here a while back, my roof was among many that needed replacement. The guy I hired, a local, was among many doing the work. My neighbor liked him and that influenced my choice. My original post concerned how to proceed after the leakage any long-term effects from a single wetting.

I worked for a while for a roofer and we got bonus pay for laying down more roofing then expected. It was a good way to make some good money and still be home with the family in the evening.
I doubt if many self employed farmers take any breaks during harvest or haying season. It is usually go, go, go until the job is done or we run out of day light.

I thought I hired a local guy. Then a van full of mexicans pulled into my drive away!

They did it fast all right. When they left I went up on the roof. They forgot the starter shingles!

I called the guy I hired. He came out and was shaking his head. he found a section that did wasn't even nailed down.

I heard him tell the mexican "either your gun was broken or you are broken" I think it's all fixed now.

Valid concern, as you end up with the cost.

Don't mind me LOL, I was in the constructions industry for quite a while, and I hate seeing any owner get burned, large or small job, don't matter, philosophy is the same.

Ask any contractor. They will always give you a high Bid to CYB. A cost plus is the only way I will go. I know a man who paid twice for his building. Once to the contractor and a second time when the contractor filled ch11 and the lumber yard placed a lien against the building for materials.

I will never ask for a bid. Been doing business too long with the same guys to insult them by asking for a bid, not to mention waste their time to figure one. My tree trimmer once told me he won't do business with my neighbor who always wants a bid, shops around for lowest, then wants to talk him down on price. All the guys I deal with give me a good deal. They know I'll pay when the job is done. Many times the lowest bid doesn't always mean a good job either. I have a great roofer, CPA, tree trimmer, concrete finisher, and termite man. Been using them for decades, like friends. They are get her done guys with the right tools and right equipment. That means for than all the bids in the world.