Solenoid

550Doug · Jun 26, 2015

Case 222 garden tractor with Kohler engine sounds like battery is low and won't start. I'm getting 12.5 volts going into the solenoid and when trying to start am only getting 5.5 volts going to starter/generator. It looks like a standard 4-post solenoid; do they ever conk out?
Maybe the ignition switch?? What do I test next?

jstpa · Jun 26, 2015

Could be the solenoid , but You say you only got 5.5 v when trying to start. If you only get that on the starter side of the solenoid then its the solenoid. But if thats on both big studs while cranking then you have a voltage problem. Either battery or cables. hth, jstpa

pat sublett · Jun 26, 2015

If the solenoid is out, you normally would not get anything, assuming you are using an analog meter. you can get induction causing a digital meter to read. You can prove it by using a heavy jumper across the 2 large terminals on the solenoid. Not absolute but probably the battery. Check your oil, make sure it is not over full and it doesn't smell like gasoline. I have seen many times, people change the solenoid, battery and starter, when the problem was the crankcase and cylinder were full of fuel, locking the piston caused by a leaking carb seat that was gummed up with ethanol. Easy to check, remove the spark plugs and see if it will turn over, If it blows fuel across the yard, change the oil and repair the carb.
If you jump the solenoid, be sure you use a heavy wire and have everything out of gear. obviously that bypasses the safety switches

old · Jun 26, 2015

Sounds like a weak or not full charged battery or poor connections some place. Or the starter it self is on the way out and pulling to many amps. So fill in the blanks. Does it try to spin the engine over at all?? What happens if you use a heavy jumper wire and jump across the 2 big posts doe it then spin over. Learned years ago to use the simple troubling shooting before grabbing meters etc because a meter does not always tell you the whole story

John T · Jun 26, 2015

SURE a solenoid can go bad, however, before that Id suspect a weak battery or a bad loose burned or carboned connection or even a faulty or jamming starter or starter drive. Remove, clean and wire brush and re attach each and every battery and cable and ground and starter and starter solenoid terminal, insure the battery is well charged, and try her again. A parts house can perform a load test on the battery for no charge.

Also have the meter direct on the battery and try to start her and see what BATTERY VOLTAGE DOES??? if it drops that low Id say the solenoid is okay and perhaps its a bad battery or a bad or sticking/jamming starter. HOWEVER if youre dropping several volts ACROSS the Solenoid, sure it could be bad. A good set of solenoid contacts shouldn't drop many volts under load, the voltage should drop ACROSS the starter motor.

See what the starter does if you use jumper cables and direct jump 12 volts to it????????? If it works good then but NOT with the solenoid in the circuit (starter itself is okay), it could be the solenoid or a bad loose or burned or carboned cable or connection or ground.

John T

El Toro · Jun 26, 2015

Measure the voltage drop at your battery when making an engine start. I think your battery needs replacing. Hal

Texasmark1 · Jun 26, 2015

Hey guys, he has 12.5 at the input terminals while attempting to crank. I realize that the load voltage is only 5.5 and as such, not much
current is passing through the solenoid, but nothing I see in the problem.....yet....eludes to corroded wiring or battery defects,
sulphated up or low on charge.

I am going to say your solenoid is bad and what's bad is the disc that connects between the two large terminals when you energize it.
They are notorious for pitting due to the copper content, high break current and subsequent arcing.

Doug, take a pair of common every day pliers and get ready for a big spark, but using the handles as a jumper, jump across the big
terminals of the solenoid. If the starter roars, get another solenoid. If not do what the other guys said.

Allan in NE · Jun 26, 2015

Battery.

Allan

chuck from neb · Jun 26, 2015

Check for a bad ground connection ....then check the battery

old · Jun 26, 2015

Reread it he says 12.5 at the solenoid and 5.5 when he tries to crank it

RMinVa · Jun 26, 2015

I just replaced one(solenoid) on a TroyBilt Horse XP mower. 5 years old. Could hear it click but nothing at starter. Jumped from + on battery
to starter to get it running till part arrived.

guido · Jun 26, 2015

Hello 550Doug,

Check the voltage reaching the solenoid while the engine is cranking, just like you did when you cranked the engine and checked the voltage at the output side of the solenoid.
If the 12.5 volts
still holds, you have a bad solenoid.It sounds like you first checked battery voltage at
the solenoid, then tried to crank the engine. It that is the case, you have a bad
battery,

Guido.

guido · Jun 26, 2015

Hello Texasmark1,

It would be much safer with a jumper cable or a #4 piece of wire. Starter button would be even better. DC power will kick you like a mile,

Guido.

Billy Shafer · Jun 27, 2015

If you have 12.5 in and 5.5 out. The solenoid contacts are burned. Common thing to happen. When people try cranking with a low battery. Solenoid
chatters and contacts burn.

Texasmark1 · Jun 27, 2015

That's not what I read. Sounds to me like he moved his meter to the other side of the solenoid because he said AT the starter/gen.

Whatever. On the pliers, over the years did it many times with pliers since pliers are readily available and you don't have to go hunting for a suitable wire with ends much softer and harder to hold on the terminals than the handles of a set of common pliers. I don't care how you do it. This is the way I did it and somehow survived myself.

Blackhole49 · Jun 27, 2015

Try jumping the battery with a vehicle, if it starts, battery. If not, solenoid.

fixerupper · Jun 27, 2015

Starter-genny or regular starter that engages flywheel gear? If you have 5.5v on BOTH sides of the solenoid when cranking you likely have a starter problem. I doubt if you have 12.5 on the battery side and 5.5 on the starter side while cranking. 12.5 seems too high while cranking even if the solenoid is not letting it all get through to the starter.

jeffcat · Jun 27, 2015

Inside the solenoid there is a round copper disk and two copper contact posts. When you turn the key the disk is slammed into those posts and GO time. Things burn up after hundreds of starts.

bison · Jun 27, 2015

Did you check the ground strap from frame to engine?

550Doug · Jun 27, 2015

UPDATE
Thanks for all the comments and insights.
No piston lockup. Battery tests good. So the best way to solve it, I went out and bought a new solenoid and ignition switch and did NOT install them. For sure the problem will resolve now!!
I got another battery, fully charged and known good, and I set about installing it. But the positive post was slightly smaller and when I tightened down I noticed a hairline crack open up on the connector. I installed a new connector onto the battery cable and BINGO, everything worked. I put in the old battery and BINGO, everything worked again.
So now do I keep those new parts on the shelf ( where I'll eventually forget where they are) ,or return them :?: :?: :?:

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